AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2018-09-19, 21:17   Link #741
Tak
Catholic = Cat addiction?
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
Demiurge cooks children alive and forces their parents to watch other people eat them. There's no value in that, it's done only to be cruel.
That's our standards, that's not their standards. From the perspectives of Pulcinella and Demiurge, they thought such act was most merciful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
I don't recall this being mentioned or shown in the anime. If this is true, I'm going to ask people who are reading the light novel to stay out of spoiler territory.

Using novel knowledge is fine if it's to talk about things the anime has already covered, changed, etc., but not for things that aren't revealed or mentioned yet.
This was covered in Season II, when Pulcinella made an enthusiastic proclamation of Demiurge's deeds. The anime left out several details covered by the LN.

Also, when Demi says cattle, he really means something else.

- Tak
__________________
BLESSED IS OUR GOD, THE LORD OF MIRACLES, FOR HE HAS SUPPLIED AN ENTIRE BATTALION WITH JUST FIVE ROUNDS OF AMMO AND TWO GRENADES!!

Remember, the toes you step on today may be connected to the @ss you have to kiss tomorrow.
Tak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-20, 05:36   Link #742
GreyZone
"Senior" "Member"
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Damnit, Fwarlord! Even though I am mostly on your side in terms of the actual discussion, WHY THE HELL did you revive it when we finally moved on for like 3 pages! This kind of necro is even worse than the ones where people "answer" posts from over 5 years ago...
__________________
GreyZone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-20, 07:20   Link #743
eiyuuou
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
I don't recall this being mentioned or shown in the anime. If this is true, I'm going to ask people who are reading the light novel to stay out of spoiler territory.

Using novel knowledge is fine if it's to talk about things the anime has already covered, changed, etc., but not for things that aren't revealed or mentioned yet.
S2 revealed the Abelion sheep are bipedal and omnivorous.
Pulcinella in S3 revealed more into demiurge's plans: breeding between humans and non-humans (aijin). This confirm what the Abelion sheep are.

Spoiler:


personally, if going over level 30 makes one a hero in the human kingdom, it would make 99.99% humans in the new world on the scale of utter weaklings.
__________________
「The liar that can’t lie」 = 「空」
eiyuuou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-20, 09:52   Link #744
Tak
Catholic = Cat addiction?
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by eiyuuou View Post
S2 revealed the Abelion sheep are bipedal and omnivorous.
Pulcinella in S3 revealed more into demiurge's plans: breeding between humans and non-humans (aijin). This confirm what the Abelion sheep are.
People should think about why some NPCs act the way they do, and not just accuse them of being evil, since they don't recognize the concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eiyuuou View Post
personally, if going over level 30 makes one a hero in the human kingdom, it would make 99.99% humans in the new world on the scale of utter weaklings.
That is why this is a story of an Overlord.

Fluder thought he was the bomb for being able to wield 6th tier magic, then he realized Nabe can wield 8th tier, followed by Ainz who is beyond 10th tier.

That episode should have been more detailed, because Fluder coming to that realization was a highlight of Volume 9.

- Tak
__________________
BLESSED IS OUR GOD, THE LORD OF MIRACLES, FOR HE HAS SUPPLIED AN ENTIRE BATTALION WITH JUST FIVE ROUNDS OF AMMO AND TWO GRENADES!!

Remember, the toes you step on today may be connected to the @ss you have to kiss tomorrow.
Tak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-20, 10:12   Link #745
Rasty
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
They don't care because they don't know. If they did, they'd surely be upset about it.
Or not. Depends on how and when given the information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
You can weed corruption out, especially if you live in a 'utopia' ruled by an all powerful leader who answers to no one.
Only if he is also omniscient. And if you can just weed the corrupted nobles out, you likely did not need them from the beginning. And I doubt anyone would be thrilled to cooperate with Ainz and most of those are useless anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
Some people getting stronger doesn't equal the merit of the dead people not dying. What if someone who couldn't be easily replaced ended up getting killed? That would actually make the villager weaker, even if people got stronger.
Funny fact, that's the reason he ordered Lupsregina to protect the 4 people. All the other people aren't irreplaceable, but just random villagers with nothing special (at least for him and from a military point of view).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post

They have the right to refuse to go on assignment too, and they are at least told what they are doing, unlike the villagers.
That seriously depends on the country. There are countries where they don't get to choose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post

You've been watching too much anime, no one does that in real life.
Except not. There are hundreds of reason for soldiers to die during training. Exploding guns, an idiot behind you who doesn't know how to shoot, badly thrown grenade (China keeps supplying us with funny videos about that), helicopter crashing etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
The problem isn't that she hates them, it's that she kills and eats them. And before you bring up humans eating animals, animals aren't sapient, humans are.
I have no problem to eat parrots (though never ate any) which are speaking animals and while I would rather avoid eating dolphins there are quite a lot of people who would eat them without blinking an eye (dolphins are much closer to humans in intellect then many might think).
In the first place eating the corpse is at least for me only a minor problem. And while killing might be bad, it's not like humans don't do that.

Btw. I doubt humans of that world would avoid eating troll meat, yet trolsl are sapient and can speak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
There's no guarantee that Nazarick would get transported without Ainz. Even if it did, as you yourself mentioned, there are some decent people in the NPC's, it could end in a civil war rather than them all going out of the way and destroying the NW.
It likely wouldn't because of them being bound by the loyalty to nazarick. In the case they go insane it might easily lead to "there is no reason for a world without supreme beings" scenario. And if they don't, the ones who would lead them would be Albedo (authority over guardians) and Demiurgos (authority over defenses and thus also likely all military affairs and strategies). Without Ainz to rein them in they would change the world to living hell.
Even if Ainz just told the NPCs to do whatever they want it would be much worse than now. So Ainz is actually quite a good character for humans.
Rasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-20, 10:28   Link #746
Fwarlord
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
Damnit, Fwarlord! Even though I am mostly on your side in terms of the actual discussion, WHY THE HELL did you revive it when we finally moved on for like 3 pages! This kind of necro is even worse than the ones where people "answer" posts from over 5 years ago...
Well, because i'm quite busy lately thus don't always have time to answer quickly, but it would be rude to not reply to Endscape after he wrote so much...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
They don't care because they don't know. If they did, they'd surely be upset about it.
Should I repeat "It's just your opinion"? You still haven't given any proof that they cared for the ruthlessness of their ruler.
Quote:
You can weed corruption out, especially if you live in a 'utopia' ruled by an all powerful leader who answers to no one.
Weed out? By what? Force? Then it will be just another bloodshed like what the Emperor did. If you are going to do that anyway, why don't just do it from the start?
Quote:
The lizardmen, the citizen from the kingdom, etc, etc.
He has his reasons to kill them, if you pay attention to the show.
Quote:
That doesn't mean Ainz should deceive them for his won ends
Governments hiding part of the truth from their citizens is also a normal thing in our world, why should it be forbidden in a medieval fantasy? Especially for their own good.
Quote:
I never said the NW was perfect. What happened to Tuare was a tragedy, that doesn't mean society is wholly irredeemable.
I really doubt you watch the show at all, since it was indicated that what happened to Tsuare was very common in the NW.
Quote:
Killing a bunch of people, most of them innocent peasants like Tuare, instead of working with the nobles to reduce casualties doesn't help anyone.
It help to reduce possible casualties in the working-with-the-nobles scenario. Since most of them are irredeemably corrupt, and working with them means giving them more power, they will just use that power to brutalize more people like Tsuare and to keep them in the position of power, likely rebel against Ainz to, if he try to "weed them out" like you suggest. And in that civil war scenario, more people will get killed.
Quote:
Demiurge cooks children alive and forces their parents to watch other people eat them. There's no value in that, it's done only to be cruel.
It could be just another psychological experiment to know how the mind of NWers work.
Quote:
Even if that's true, it doesn't justify all the evil Ainz has done
Excuse me, saving the world from total destruction is quite a big feat. People who do that are usually called messiahs.
Quote:
Attacking the lizardmen, kidnapping and killing over 100,000 citizens from the kingdom, etc, etc.
He rescued the liazadmen from extinction and they are graceful to him for that. About the kingdom's citizen, discussing it now will be spoiler.
Quote:
Some people getting stronger doesn't equal the merit of the dead people not dying. What if someone who couldn't be easily replaced ended up getting killed? That would actually make the villager weaker, even if people got stronger.
Ainz already told Lupus to make sure none of the irreplaceable people got killed.
Quote:
They have the right to refuse to go on assignment too, and they are at least told what they are doing, unlike the villagers.
But polices can't just refuse all of their missions and they don't actually know exactly how risky a mission will be until they actually do it. They never received enough information, otherwise there wouldn't have been polices killed in action.
Quote:
The idea that risking your life is more beneficial or that it actually helps the village as a whole is your opinion as well.
Unlike you, I have some proofs, like the context of the setting where villagers getting killed is common and they celebrated after winning against the trolls instead of mourning the deaths.
Quote:
You've been watching too much anime, no one does that in real life.
Members of special forces do. Actually, there are even cases where athletes and pro wrestlers died in training.
Quote:
What big companies like Wal-Mart do to small business aren't takeovers, I suggest you educate yourself on this topic
Then what do you call it? Care to enlighten me?
Quote:
What I denied is that the benefit is worth killing people over, especially when it could easily have been done another way.
Like what way? You always fail to give examples.
Quote:
They aren't happy, they've just decided to accept it, because otherwise they'd be killed.
Both the show and the source material prove the opposite and you know it. The lizardmen even worships Ainz as their god.
Quote:
From what I've seen so far, Ainz is totally unwilling or unable to control his subordinates from doing horrible things to non-Nazarick people and that he has zero intention to change that. I've seen that he is willing to murder NW residents for the sake of Nazarick, or even whatever whim floats in his mind at any time, and I've seen zero indication that will stop when he declares people under his protection, as Carne Village so richly indicates.
Ainz never killed people under his protection. Carne village isn't under his control yet, since he still haven't declared so. There are only 4 people in that village he decides to protect thus far. And we saw that he was willing to do even things that wasn't beneficial to him, just to uphold his promise to protect someone, like in Tsuare's case after Eight Fingers kidnapped her.
Quote:
How is Nazarick getting magic scrolls made of human skin benefiting anyone outside Nazarick? How is eating children benefiting Nazarick, or anyone at all outside Demiurge.
Those experiments strengthen Nazarick's power and after the whole world is united under Ainz's rule, it will given those benefits as well. Like how medical experiments benefit mankind.
Quote:
I don't recall saying that all the NPC's are evil. The ones that are actually running things, Albedo and Demiurge are absolutely evil and have unlimited power and authority.
Excuse me, you criticized Ainz's utopia project just because it would be ruled by Ainz's NPCs and ignore GreyZone's idea that those like Albedo and Demiurge can be assigned to do something that aren't related to human management after the utopia is founded. But anyway, they are totally loyal to Ainz and will never do anything that will harm his utopia regardless of their own feeling.
Quote:
The other evil ones have no limits put on them and can do whatever they want. Even Sebas and Yuri, despite being decent are more than willing to do evil under Ainz's orders. The only ones actually willing to defy orders to do the right thing are the ones with limited authority, like Pestonya and Nigredo.
The problem with your argument is, Ainz forbid his NPCs to do unnecessary evils so that future players won't antagonize him. Meaning the NPCs can't actually do whatever they want. Like when Ainz forbid Solution to eat innocent children.
Quote:
The problem isn't that she hates them, it's that she kills and eats them. And before you bring up humans eating animals, animals aren't sapient, humans are.

If Nazarick conquers the world and everyone becomes Ainz's servant, do you think he'll just tell her to stop eating humans?
Obviously he will. See Solution's example above? Maybe he will only let them eat criminals or something.
Quote:
There's no guarantee that Nazarick would get transported without Ainz. Even if it did, as you yourself mentioned, there are some decent people in the NPC's, it could end in a civil war rather than them all going out of the way and destroying the NW.
You don't understand, the only reason all the NPCs didn't go mad was because of Ainz. In case he wasn't there, "decent" NPCs like Sebas and Yuri would likely suffer some mental issue as well and wouldn't have any strength left to do something as trivial as fighting with other NPCs for outsiders' sake. And if Nazarick wouldn't get transported, there wouldn't be any story.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic218451_1.gif Lovers for Eternity
Fwarlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-20, 12:15   Link #747
Tak
Catholic = Cat addiction?
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
Let's be fair. Ainz is here neither to ruin nor save. He is here to rule, he declared as much back in Volume 1.

Quote:
Excuse me, you criticized Ainz's utopia project just because it would be ruled by Ainz's NPCs and ignore GreyZone's idea that those like Albedo and Demiurge can be assigned to do something that aren't related to human management after the utopia is founded. But anyway, they are totally loyal to Ainz and will never do anything that will harm his utopia regardless of their own feeling.
But Ainz still doesn't know some of the stunts pulled by Demi though. I guess we will have to wait to see Ainz's reaction when he does.

Quote:
It help to reduce possible casualties in the working-with-the-nobles scenario. Since most of them are irredeemably corrupt, and working with them means giving them more power, they will just use that power to brutalize more people like Tsuare and to keep them in the position of power, likely rebel against Ainz to, if he try to "weed them out" like you suggest. And in that civil war scenario, more people will get killed.
I really wouldn't argue that working with Ainz reduced casualties. Ainz is not immune to this. Moreover, some of the nobles aren't corrupt, they are just stupid, and Ainz likes useful-idiots. Never mind that the subded Eight-Fingers now work under Ainz, still doing what they used to do, they are just working for Ainz now.

On the other hand, maybe there is a better way to approach this, but Ainz is not required to seek that 'better way'.

Quote:
The problem with your argument is, Ainz forbid his NPCs to do unnecessary evils so that future players won't antagonize him.
I really think Ainz already moved beyond this.

Quote:
Like when Ainz forbid Solution to eat innocent children.
Not that she needs to. Nazarick magic allows the regrowth of limbs to be harvested...

- Tak
__________________
BLESSED IS OUR GOD, THE LORD OF MIRACLES, FOR HE HAS SUPPLIED AN ENTIRE BATTALION WITH JUST FIVE ROUNDS OF AMMO AND TWO GRENADES!!

Remember, the toes you step on today may be connected to the @ss you have to kiss tomorrow.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2018-09-21 at 07:49. Reason: Deleted spoiler answer.
Tak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-20, 12:54   Link #748
Endscape
The Mage of Four Hearts
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasty View Post
Or not. Depends on how and when given the information.
So if they're deceived then.

Quote:
Funny fact, that's the reason he ordered Lupsregina to protect the 4 people. All the other people aren't irreplaceable, but just random villagers with nothing special (at least for him and from a military point of view).
Exactly he ordered Lupusregina to save the people irreplaceable to him, not the village. Someone else the village needed could easily have died.

Quote:
That seriously depends on the country. There are countries where they don't get to choose.
I was talking about decently run countries.


Quote:
Except not. There are hundreds of reason for soldiers to die during training. Exploding guns, an idiot behind you who doesn't know how to shoot, badly thrown grenade (China keeps supplying us with funny videos about that), helicopter crashing etc.
Did you actually read the article you linked to? People die in training accidents, not because they're trying to do training with a high chance of killing them, or because their superiors sent someone to kill them.

Quote:
I have no problem to eat parrots (though never ate any) which are speaking animals
Parrots repeat words, they can't actually have a conversation with you because they are not intelligent enough for that.

Quote:
and while I would rather avoid eating dolphins there are quite a lot of people who would eat them without blinking an eye (dolphins are much closer to humans in intellect then many might think).
See above.

Quote:
Even if Ainz just told the NPCs to do whatever they want it would be much worse than now. So Ainz is actually quite a good character for humans.
By accident, let's not get ahead of ourselves and call him a saviour for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fwarlord View Post
Should I repeat "It's just your opinion"? You still haven't given any proof that they cared for the ruthlessness of their ruler.
There's no one that would be OK with someone sending people to kill them in the name of training, especially without a heads up first.

Quote:
Weed out? By what? Force? Then it will be just another bloodshed like what the Emperor did.
You don't need to resort to all out bloodshed to reduce corruption, you know.

Quote:
If you are going to do that anyway, why don't just do it from the start?
It would probably result in less people getting killed.

Quote:
He has his reasons to kill them, if you pay attention to the show.
His reasons are rubbish.

Quote:
Governments hiding part of the truth from their citizens is also a normal thing in our world, why should it be forbidden in a medieval fantasy? Especially for their own good.
Why should Ainz get to decide what their own good is, again? Besides governments

Quote:
I really doubt you watch the show at all, since it was indicated that what happened to Tsuare was very common in the NW.
I never denied that, I simply said it didn't mean the NW was completely irredeemable.

Quote:
It help to reduce possible casualties in the working-with-the-nobles scenario. Since most of them are irredeemably corrupt, and working with them means giving them more power, they will just use that power to brutalize more people like Tsuare and to keep them in the position of power, likely rebel against Ainz to, if he try to "weed them out" like you suggest. And in that civil war scenario, more people will get killed.
That would still be less people dead than what Ainz is doing, and less social upheaval as well.

Quote:
It could be just another psychological experiment to know how the mind of NWers work.
You know that's garbage.

Quote:
Excuse me, saving the world from total destruction is quite a big feat. People who do that are usually called messiahs.
Still doesn't justify mass murder

Quote:
He rescued the liazadmen from extinction and they are graceful to him for that.
He conquered them for a petty experiment. They're just happy they're not all dead.

Quote:
Ainz already told Lupus to make sure none of the irreplaceable people got killed.
All the people irreplaceable to him, not to the village.

Quote:
But polices can't just refuse all of their missions and they don't actually know exactly how risky a mission will be until they actually do it.
Yes, they can. They could even just quit if they wanted to.

Quote:
They never received enough information, otherwise there wouldn't have been polices killed in action.
They get all the information the organization has, they don't hide information just out of sheer apathy like Ainz does.

Quote:
Unlike you, I have some proofs, like the context of the setting where villagers getting killed is common and they celebrated after winning against the trolls instead of mourning the deaths.
How on Earth is that proof that risking people's lives arbitrarily is somehow to their benefit.

Quote:
Members of special forces do. Actually, there are even cases where athletes and pro wrestlers died in training.
Those are accidents. No one is deliberately risking their life in training, and even if they do, they have the choice to do so, no one tries to kill them and then calls it training.

Quote:
Then what do you call it? Care to enlighten me?
A takeover is when a company purchases another company. What big companies like Wal-Mart do is come into a small town, use economies of scale to sell goods at a price that small town business can't compete with and then run them out of business.

Quote:
Like what way? You always fail to give examples.
I've already mentioned them. Work to improve trade and industry in the area. Help improve public order, there are any number of ways. Ainz doesn't do this because he's not trying to create a utopia or to help anyone. He just wants to rule the world.

Quote:
Ainz never killed people under his protection. Carne village isn't under his control yet, since he still haven't declared so.
Using Ainz' own logic, he already declared Carne under his protection and he was willing to set trolls on them for his own benefit.

Quote:
And we saw that he was willing to do even things that wasn't beneficial to him, just to uphold his promise to protect someone, like in Tsuare's case after Eight Fingers kidnapped her.
He did that for Sebas.

Quote:
Those experiments strengthen Nazarick's power and after the whole world is united under Ainz's rule, it will given those benefits as well. Like how medical experiments benefit mankind.
There's a reason trickle-down economics don;t work, you know.

Quote:
Excuse me, you criticized Ainz's utopia project just because it would be ruled by Ainz's NPCs and ignore GreyZone's idea that those like Albedo and Demiurge can be assigned to do something that aren't related to human management after the utopia is founded.
This is the same Ainz who went along with Demiuge's conquer the world plan because he couldn't bear to tell him no, why would he assign them to anything else, especially when they're literally the only people in Nazarick that are capable of that sort of stuff?

Even if he did, Demiurge would simply continue doing stuff like the sheep farm as long as it helped Nazarick and Ainz would let him, because that's all he cares about.

Quote:
But anyway, they are totally loyal to Ainz and will never do anything that will harm his utopia regardless of their own feeling.
They're loyal to Ainz, they wouldn't hesitate to murder people on their own accord as long as they thought it helped him. They're both doing it right now behind his back.

Quote:
The problem with your argument is, Ainz forbid his NPCs to do unnecessary evils so that future players won't antagonize him.
He actually doesn't. He just tells them to do that stuff secretly, so other players won't know.

Quote:
Meaning the NPCs can't actually do whatever they want. Like when Ainz forbid Solution to eat innocent children.
That was because he wanted to respect Pestonya and Nigredo disobeying him to save them earlier, not because he actually cares about them.

Quote:
You don't understand, the only reason all the NPCs didn't go mad was because of Ainz. In case he wasn't there, "decent" NPCs like Sebas and Yuri would likely suffer some mental issue as well and wouldn't have any strength left to do something as trivial as fighting with other NPCs for outsiders' sake. And if Nazarick wouldn't get transported, there wouldn't be any story.
Unless the author said something about this I'm unaware of, it's just speculation.
__________________




Illusion, illusion, this is illusion. It cannot harm me.
Endscape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-20, 13:17   Link #749
eiyuuou
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
People should think about why some NPCs act the way they do, and not just accuse them of being evil, since they don't recognize the concept.
that is how human supremacists act.
in the mmorpg, human players hunt non-human players just for kicks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
That is why this is a story of an Overlord.

Fluder thought he was the bomb for being able to wield 6th tier magic, then he realized Nabe can wield 8th tier, followed by Ainz who is beyond 10th tier.

That episode should have been more detailed, because Fluder coming to that realization was a highlight of Volume 9.

- Tak
You couldn't really blame Fluder. He served 6 gen imperial family, lived hundreds of year (around 200 I think), is the best wizard in the empire without equal and reached 6th tier. his presence alone halts people from considering rebellion.
when he saw ainz's unsealed power, he went into awe and immediately wanted to serve ainz with everything he possessed. it would imply he wasn't arrogant of his mastery, but more like a lonely magic otaku.
__________________
「The liar that can’t lie」 = 「空」
eiyuuou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-20, 16:29   Link #750
Tak
Catholic = Cat addiction?
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by eiyuuou View Post
that is how human supremacists act.
in the mmorpg, human players hunt non-human players just for kicks.
Exactly. In YGG, hunting down Heteromorphic races was encouraged in-game. This led to the creation of Ainz's original guild and the creation of NPCs who stood completely opposed to the standards of Humanoid and Demi-Humanoid species.

The twisted sense of morality of Nazarick NPCs was a direct result of actions committed by 'Humans'. Karma is a bitch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eiyuuou View Post
You couldn't really blame Fluder. He served 6 gen imperial family, lived hundreds of year (around 200 I think), is the best wizard in the empire without equal and reached 6th tier. his presence alone halts people from considering rebellion.
when he saw ainz's unsealed power, he went into awe and immediately wanted to serve ainz with everything he possessed. it would imply he wasn't arrogant of his mastery, but more like a lonely magic otaku.
That scene in volume 9 was pretty powerful, though. Again, I wish the anime would depict that segment with more details than it did.

IIRC, I think Ainz later gave him some random in-game book from YGG, and poor Flunder fell onto his knees immediately. I have a feeling if Ainz pissed in a cup, he'd drink it.

- Tak
__________________
BLESSED IS OUR GOD, THE LORD OF MIRACLES, FOR HE HAS SUPPLIED AN ENTIRE BATTALION WITH JUST FIVE ROUNDS OF AMMO AND TWO GRENADES!!

Remember, the toes you step on today may be connected to the @ss you have to kiss tomorrow.
Tak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-20, 17:49   Link #751
TheForsaken
Winter is coming
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Despite all the "it is gray" or "you have to see from their perspective", people also think that the corrupted nobles are absolute evil and the only solution is killing them all (and a fuck ton of other people as collateral damage).

Double standard much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
People should think about why some NPCs act the way they do, and not just accuse them of being evil, since they don't recognize the concept.
They act the way they do because they are hard coded to be evil.
The word "evil" is not something we invented. The author himself pitches his work as a story where the protagonists are evil.
Seriously, most of those characters have a -500 alignment in their character sheets. What is there to argue about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
The twisted sense of morality of Nazarick NPCs was a direct result of actions committed by 'Humans'. Karma is a bitch.
Those "humans" are not from this world. Those "humans" are not even human, they are Players. So I fail to see how you can use the word "karma" here.
__________________
TheForsaken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-20, 18:11   Link #752
GreyZone
"Senior" "Member"
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheForsaken View Post
Despite all the "it is gray" or "you have to see from their perspective", people also think that the corrupted nobles are absolute evil and the only solution is killing them all (and a fuck ton of other people as collateral damage).

Double standard much?
Not quite the same. Nazarick as rulers is a case of "high risk, high reward" for the population, meanwhile the corrupt nobles are a definite bad thing for the population and the only hope for improvement is if decades later the heir happens to be not corrupt and more skilled at administration. And who that's only if they are super lucky.
__________________
GreyZone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-20, 19:20   Link #753
Tak
Catholic = Cat addiction?
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheForsaken View Post
Despite all the "it is gray" or "you have to see from their perspective", people also think that the corrupted nobles are absolute evil and the only solution is killing them all (and a fuck ton of other people as collateral damage).

Double standard much?
I hope you are not referring to me, because all I see is Ainz being the bigger fish, evil or not, and it's glorious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheForsaken View Post
They act the way they do because they are hard coded to be evil.
The word "evil" is not something we invented. The author himself pitches his work as a story where the protagonists are evil. Seriously, most of those characters have a -500 alignment in their character sheets. What is there to argue about?
Except none of these characters know of such 'stats' in the game, since none of them even realize they were in a game. Heck, Shalltear thought a seiyuu was someone who gave life, and that she was a literal creation of the supreme beings who gave her life!

That, and they were programmed this way because of how Ygg was set up.

OTOH, I never disputed their actions as being evil, though I am disputing the notion that they (the NPCs) think it is. Aside from this, when NPCs interact with humans, are the latter ever viewed as equals? Nope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheForsaken View Post
Those "humans" are not from this world. Those "humans" are not even human, they are Players. So I fail to see how you can use the word "karma" here.
It makes a difference to you and I, but it does not make a difference to the NPCs, does it? All the NPCs remember, is defending the great Tomb of Nazarick from humanoids and being the absolute top dogs of Yggdrasil. Now they are given an even better opportunity to repeat their past success.

- Tak
__________________
BLESSED IS OUR GOD, THE LORD OF MIRACLES, FOR HE HAS SUPPLIED AN ENTIRE BATTALION WITH JUST FIVE ROUNDS OF AMMO AND TWO GRENADES!!

Remember, the toes you step on today may be connected to the @ss you have to kiss tomorrow.

Last edited by Tak; 2018-09-20 at 19:43.
Tak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-20, 22:13   Link #754
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
I don't recall this being mentioned or shown in the anime. If this is true, I'm going to ask people who are reading the light novel to stay out of spoiler territory.

Using novel knowledge is fine if it's to talk about things the anime has already covered, changed, etc., but not for things that aren't revealed or mentioned yet.
I want to further add on to this to remind that the Spoiler Policy says that any such comparisons to the novel -- even for things that already happened -- have to be behind clearly-marked spoiler tags. Posting them in the open, for any reason, is forbidden.

I really recommend novel readers be more careful and stop posting anything from outside the anime things in the open, whether it's something the anime skipped or not. This is the last time I post a warning about this in this thread.
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-21, 00:15   Link #755
Yan3242
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Quote:
I think Ainz later gave him some random in-game book from YGG
If iam not wrong, ainz give him somekind of magic book that enable him to finally learn above 6th tier magic (though it probably going to take forever for him to learn it), the magic book is actually a copy of the original and some of content is erased for reason, but the old man probably didnt care about that.

Quote:
I have a feeling if Ainz pissed in a cup, he'd drink it.
If there is a bizzare doujin out there, iam not surprised it could happen. The old man give everything from key information, his utmost loyalty, to his entire nation just for the sake of obtaining higher tier magic. literally on that spot the moment ainz show him his magic aura (in the novel) he went to his knee and beg ainz to become his student.

*on second though, it probably wont happen. Ainz is all bone
Yan3242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-21, 08:27   Link #756
The 48th Ronin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Anywhere. I'm a nomad.
Yes, finally. One of my favorite parts of this arc is animated. It's really hilarious to see Ainz going WTF after seeing the horn worked effectively.
__________________
.
"You can always die. It's living that takes real courage."
.
The 48th Ronin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-21, 09:35   Link #757
Tak
Catholic = Cat addiction?
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yan3242 View Post
*on second though, it probably wont happen. Ainz is all bone
There is Nabe...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yan3242 View Post
If there is a bizzare doujin out there, iam not surprised it could happen.
Oh... shit. Did I just gave an idea?



- Tak
__________________
BLESSED IS OUR GOD, THE LORD OF MIRACLES, FOR HE HAS SUPPLIED AN ENTIRE BATTALION WITH JUST FIVE ROUNDS OF AMMO AND TWO GRENADES!!

Remember, the toes you step on today may be connected to the @ss you have to kiss tomorrow.
Tak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-21, 10:34   Link #758
GreyZone
"Senior" "Member"
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Relevant excerpt to on-going discussion from an audio drama from vol. 10, doesn't have any spoilers regarding the main story. It deals with a table top RPG that Ainz plays with his guardians:

Spoiler for LN vol. 10 Drama CD excerpt:


With this it should be pretty clear that as long as humans are under Ainz's rule, the guardians will probably not move against them.
__________________
GreyZone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-21, 11:16   Link #759
Fwarlord
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
There's no one that would be OK with someone sending people to kill them in the name of training, especially without a heads up first.
You are saying that as an omnipotent reader. Medieval peasants won't care that much. They were even fine with the local lord robbing their crop every season and left their family starved to death.
Quote:
You don't need to resort to all out bloodshed to reduce corruption, you know.
Then state your solution. Compromising with bribery only leads to worse bribery.
Quote:
It would probably result in less people getting killed.
And more people suffered from the corruption and oppression of the nobles. Maybe even more deaths.
Quote:
His reasons are rubbish.
They aren't though. The lizardmen also accepted them.
Quote:
Why should Ainz get to decide what their own good is, again? Besides governments
Because he has the higher authority and his actions really benefit them.
Quote:
I never denied that, I simply said it didn't mean the NW was completely irredeemable.
Maybe individually, the majority is redeemable, but as a whole, that society is rotten to the core, since it is run by corrupted nobles, who are irredeemable. That's why Ainz is trying to destroy that system to create a better one.
Quote:
That would still be less people dead than what Ainz is doing, and less social upheaval as well.
How would it lead to less deaths and social upheaval? With the nobles still being in power, countless people will suffer Tsuare's fate, leading to all sort of social problem, remember Zach, the guy ate by Solution? His sister was also kidnapped by the nobles, turning him into a criminal as the result. And when Ainz tries to take away their power, the nobles will undoubtedly rebel, forcing him to kill them all, along with their armies. So more deaths, not less.
Quote:
You know that's garbage.
Explain, please. I fail to see how gathering information in a strange world is unjustified.
Quote:
Still doesn't justify mass murder
It does. In other works, heroes are also murderers who kill alot.
Quote:
He conquered them for a petty experiment. They're just happy they're not all dead.
Now he wants their success.
Spoiler for Spoiler:

Quote:
All the people irreplaceable to him, not to the village.
Is there nay different? Or can you tell me who is the important person that got killed you are referring to?
Quote:
Yes, they can. They could even just quit if they wanted to.
But they don't how exactly which mission they need to refuse. Otherwise no one would be killed.
Quote:
They get all the information the organization has, they don't hide information just out of sheer apathy like Ainz does.
Ainz never hided anything. The villagers knew perfectly well that the trolls were going to attack. Ainz didn't make it any more difficult. He even weakened them by turning them into undead.
Quote:
How on Earth is that proof that risking people's lives arbitrarily is somehow to their benefit.
Those are proofs they didn't care about the deaths of other villagers.
Quote:
Those are accidents. No one is deliberately risking their life in training, and even if they do, they have the choice to do so, no one tries to kill them and then calls it training.
They knew those trainings were dangerous and they could accidentally die, so they risked their life by accepting them. Just like how villagers knew they could die in the troll attack but chose to resist instead of running away.
Quote:
A takeover is when a company purchases another company. What big companies like Wal-Mart do is come into a small town, use economies of scale to sell goods at a price that small town business can't compete with and then run them out of business.
Big companies usually try to buy local stores first and only use other methods if it fails.
Quote:
I've already mentioned them. Work to improve trade and industry in the area. Help improve public order, there are any number of ways. Ainz doesn't do this because he's not trying to create a utopia or to help anyone. He just wants to rule the world.
I and others have showed you how impractical your way is. The show has made it painfully clear that majority of nobles are stubborn morons who just won't change no matter what. If even overwhelming power can't convince them to change, how can your trade and industry improvement can do it? They will just flat out forbid their people to use those changes and kill anyone who does. If you really want to prove Ainz is wrong, give more detailed and practical methods, instead of just whining and giving some half-ass unworkable ideas.
Quote:
Using Ainz' own logic, he already declared Carne under his protection and he was willing to set trolls on them for his own benefit.
He haven't officially declared that. Otherwise he wouldn't need to explicitly state that he protected Nemu.
Quote:
He did that for Sebas.
Doesn't change the fact that he honored his promise.
Quote:
There's a reason trickle-down economics don;t work, you know.
It isn't about economics, it's about how advances in medical sciences benefit mankind, something everyone agrees.
Quote:
This is the same Ainz who went along with Demiuge's conquer the world plan because he couldn't bear to tell him no, why would he assign them to anything else, especially when they're literally the only people in Nazarick that are capable of that sort of stuff?
Because he understands well that doing unnecessary evil will turn the whole world against him, plus future players as well.
Quote:
Even if he did, Demiurge would simply continue doing stuff like the sheep farm as long as it helped Nazarick and Ainz would let him, because that's all he cares about.
Like I said, benefit Nazarick, benefit the world.
Quote:
They're loyal to Ainz, they wouldn't hesitate to murder people on their own accord as long as they thought it helped him. They're both doing it right now behind his back.
And he will correct them once he finds out, then they won't do it again. Everyone commits mistakes, you see.
Quote:
He actually doesn't. He just tells them to do that stuff secretly, so other players won't know.
No. He taught them about casus belli and told them to not do unnecessary things.
Quote:
That was because he wanted to respect Pestonya and Nigredo disobeying him to save them earlier, not because he actually cares about them.
You have for proof on this statement.
Quote:
Unless the author said something about this I'm unaware of, it's just speculation.
Spoiler for spoiler:
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic218451_1.gif Lovers for Eternity
Fwarlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-09-21, 11:33   Link #760
eiyuuou
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
There is Nabe...


- Tak
that one will seem like humiliation play on Ainz himself. Ainz' own goal.

regardless what fantasies others have, I believe Fluder made the best choice in his entire life.
__________________
「The liar that can’t lie」 = 「空」
eiyuuou is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 23:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.