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View Poll Results: Which type of subs do you like the most | |||
Freely translated and good english | 27 | 35.53% | |
most accurate and near to the original | 40 | 52.63% | |
minimalistic ones | 2 | 2.63% | |
I don't care all i understand is fine | 6 | 7.89% | |
is there a way to tell oO | 1 | 1.32% | |
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll |
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2010-03-04, 15:48 | Link #41 | |
Vanitas owns you >:3
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The only downfall I see to wapro is that it's on the computer so you get lazy and don't learn the proper kanji/kana strokes.......but that's an entirely different matter than romanization. Here's the way I see it: ん is "n" and it will ALWAYS be "n". It will never be "m". Dictionaries and other learning tools will not recognize it as such. Therefore, せんぱい can only be "senpai". If you look for "sempai" in a Japanese to English dictionary, paperback or online, you're not going to find it! So why make romanization more difficult when you don't have to? It's just adding to the headache for someone who wants to learn more of the language!
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2010-03-04, 16:02 | Link #42 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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"accurate and close to the original" can mean a lot of things - including "freely translated and good english" - it does not mean "Myself the car purchased, informing you" in most cases. That's a "first pass" draft at best.
It should be decent English *and* close to the spirit of the original. I'm okay with leaving honorifics, idiomatic terms, and food words in Japanese (in fact, its confusing when someone translates udon as "chicken soup") because those often *don't* have direct translations. I've even gotten a bit annoyed at seeing "kami" as "God" rather than "gods". It is misleading. One thing I won't tolerate is what I'll call "over localization" or "sloppy slang" -- I've seen some so off base it changes the personality of the character or completely misfires the intent of the scene. Sometimes its funny... but fansubbers that do it often overestimate their own ability to write. Visit the blogs of anime/manga translators and observe how they have to stew over word choice or how to handle allegorical remarks. Proverbs are another one. I have an entire book on Japanese idioms and proverbs because just "babelfishing" would leave the reader in a "wtf" state.
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2010-03-04, 16:06 | Link #43 | |
Senior Member
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Overly localized sloppy slang is basically what I meant by some sub translations being a bit too westernized.
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2010-03-04, 16:17 | Link #45 | |
Not an expert on things
Join Date: Jun 2007
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I hate typos though, and grammatical errors end up distracting me as well. I tend to be picky about that stuff, even if I'm not a master at it myself. |
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2010-03-04, 18:45 | Link #46 | |
Vanitas owns you >:3
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Do....do subbers actually do that!? I might have to smack one around if I met them in person.... I remember getting pissed during Card Captor Sakura because the fansubbers put "ramune" as "juice". JUICE!? It is not juice!! Ramune is nothing like juice dammit, it's SODA! And has anyone thought it odd when a character says "Thank you" in broken English but the subber puts "Arigatou" for the translation? Kinda silly...
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2010-03-04, 18:58 | Link #47 |
is this so?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gradius Home World
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Voted "most accurate and near to the original".
Recently switched to another fansub group on a certain anime, because the previous group I was following removes the honorifics and translate to first name when the character is actually saying the last name.
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Last edited by Liddo-kun; 2010-03-04 at 19:11. |
2010-03-04, 19:06 | Link #48 | |
Vanitas owns you >:3
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Didn't I!?
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2010-03-04, 19:24 | Link #49 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Ex: Turu for 鶴 (Tsuru), Texi-supo-n for ティースプーン (Tiisupuun) Quote:
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2010-03-04, 19:37 | Link #50 |
Disabled By Request
Join Date: Jan 2010
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most accurate and near to the original
Westernized doesn't bother me, it's butchering the dialogue that gets to me. I don't mind honorifics, or japanese sayings, thats the part of learning, really. I've watched very few sub episodes, and believe closest to the original is best. Perspective and individual belief, of course. I'm not saying it should be followed by anyone else. Ironically enough, that is what the majority agrees upon. |
2010-03-04, 20:45 | Link #51 | ||
AniMexican!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Monterrey N.L. Mexico
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It gets even worse when you take into account that some of them are actually translating the "sloppy slang" of other english groups. Quote:
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2010-03-04, 20:54 | Link #52 |
耳をすませば
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 34
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The answer is, it depends. I have a different answer for my own preference, and a different answer for commercial mainstream localization.
My own preference is for very literal translations. But the reason is because I understand Japanese speech patterns, for the most part. Thus subtitles are more or less an "instant dictionary" when I don't recognize a word. So ultra-literal translations are the most easiest to pick out the meaning of the word I don't understand. For fansubs, I also think it is best to keep close to the original Japanese even if occasionally awkward. The reason is simply because anime fans consuming these fansubs usually have already become familiar with quirks of Japanese conversation. They're not confused by what -chan or -san means, or why people call each other by last names. However, I strongly feel the opposite for mainstream localizations and dubs. The purpose of these projects is to make a work accessible to a new audience, and the mainstream audiences in different countries can't be expected to be familiar with every single linguistic idiosyncracy of every language. Nor should you expect them to. In this case you should never throw in butchered English sentences in the name of "preserving the original". Preserve the original meaning as best you can, but present it as natural speech in the new language. This is a problem I had with the dub for Princess Mononoke. They left Mononoke untranslated, and since not many dub-watchers know Japanese, it became a meaningless word with no significance, which is a shame.
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2010-03-04, 21:01 | Link #53 | |
Vanitas owns you >:3
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I just don't really understand. Lol if romanization is done for pronunciation, you definitely don't want to teach 先輩 as "sempai". You can hear a difference.
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2010-03-04, 21:10 | Link #54 | |
Senior Member
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This is also how I myself view the main purposes of the sub and the dub. Most sub watchers are, as you say, familiar with the quirks of Japanese conversation. They're generally not baffled by honorifics or the linguistic idiosyncrasy of the Japanese language. However, dubs are for a potentially broader audience, and accessibility is key to them, I think. That's why I don't mind some degree of localization in dubs, but not as far as the original One Piece dub went. Personally, I like this approach.
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2010-03-04, 23:30 | Link #58 | |
Translator, Producer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 44
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The whole reason that "ん" was romanized into an m before p, and b syllables is because in properly spoken japanese it is pronounced slightly differently when it comes before those syllables. ... Saying "Sen - pai" is less correct pronunciation than "se-mpai"... er, it's hard to explain this with text, but basically the "m" sound should be created with your lips closing, not your tongue. Remember, Japanese spoken language came before Hiragana, and the basic hiragana sounds actually have a number of small variations depending on context. Similar reasons explain the use of は and ヘ being pronounced "wa" and "e" when used as particles, etc...
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2010-03-04, 23:37 | Link #59 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Written codes are always a bit of an approximation of the natural sounds/words. This is true in any language that makes use of phonetic codes. "ki-nig-it" (knight), um errrrr.... not a great example. I just wanted to say "ki-nig-it" because I'm watching Michael Palin's travel documentary "Full Circle" and he's in Japan this episode.
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2010-03-05, 01:24 | Link #60 | |
Vanitas owns you >:3
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