Character Discussion - Kallen

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

her own sense of justice
and her brothers death

Meh, never explained anything about Naoto and his epicness. Wonder if he would've made a better KMF pilot than Kallen. Which is technically not possible, but who knows.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

Meh, never explained anything about Naoto and his epicness. Wonder if he would've made a better KMF pilot than Kallen. Which is technically not possible, but who knows.

given how little we know about him, its possible that he was like freaking kamina
he formed the resistance movement after all, and both ougi and kallen seem to think of him very highly

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

given how little we know about him, its possible that he was like freaking kamina
he formed the resistance movement after all, and both ougi and kallen seem to think of him very highly

Exactly!!!So much unexploited manliness.

How did he die again? Did they ever say how?

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

Exactly!!!So much unexploited manliness.

How did he die again? Did they ever say how?

nope
no clue at all

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

nope
no clue at all

...

DAMN YOU SUNRISEE!!!!!!

R2 should have been at least 40 episodes...would've explained more...

[bladeofdarkness]

40 eps are not needed
all they had to do was stick to the original script and not waste the first few eps re-telling the entire story for the sake of new comers
its bullshit really, since anyone who starts watching an anime from the second season without first watching the first would have had to have his brains and scrotum replaced

but they ended up dropping storylines that dont directly effect lelouch
kallen's father, suzaku's geass connection
if it does not connect to lelouch, it got dropped
which is a shame

[Kallen4life]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

40 eps are not needed
all they had to do was stick to the original script and not waste the first few eps re-telling the entire story for the sake of new comers
its bullshit really, since anyone who starts watching an anime from the second season without first watching the first would have had to have his brains and scrotum replaced

but they ended up dropping storylines that dont directly effect lelouch
kallen's father, suzaku's geass connection
if it does not connect to lelouch, it got dropped
which is a shame

about these dropped R2 plots - can I read about it somewhere ? what could have been

[kakakka]

Isn't Kallen's brother that driver with her in episode 1 s1 who got killed? Or maybe I'm thinking the wrong guy...

[bladeofdarkness]

no
that was nagata
kallen's brother was naoto, who died before the actual story began

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

her own sense of justice
and her brothers death

What sense of Justice? If she had any she would've called it quits after the funeral for Shirley's dad, but instead she is easily reassured by Zero.
No one with a proper sense of justice would buy into Zero's twisted logic.

As for Naoto, I doubt he was any sort of badass. After all, the resistance wasn't that successful, to begin with, and his cell consisted of guys like ougi and tamaki, the epitomi of useless idiots. The only real asset in that cell was Kallen, and she wasn't part of the resistance when Naoto was alive. It's not like he created a real organization capable of takin on Britannia, in fact most of those cells were seen as a joke (kyoto only supported the JLF until Zero showed up).

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

What sense of Justice? If she had any she would've called it quits after the funeral for Shirley's dad, but instead she is easily reassured by Zero.
No one with a proper sense of justice would buy into Zero's twisted logic.

As for Naoto, I doubt he was any sort of badass. After all, the resistance wasn't that successful, to begin with, and his cell consisted of guys like ougi and tamaki, the epitomi of useless idiots. The only real asset in that cell was Kallen, and she wasn't part of the resistance when Naoto was alive. It's not like he created a real organization capable of takin on Britannia, in fact most of those cells were seen as a joke (kyoto only supported the JLF until Zero showed up).

Shirley's father dying was an accident, and in any war, especially one fighting off an occupation, you're delusional if you expect absolutely no civilian casualties. Her sense of justice is far better than the standard you seem to hold.

Kyoto supported all the terrorist organizations, the difference is the degree to which they helped. JLF had the best chance and got the most support.

[Revolutionist]

If I'm not mistaken she tells Zero that she thought the goal was justice, implying that their actions up until then aside from the vigilante work weren't on the side of justice, or that at least she had reservations about their actions.
Where is the justice in sacrificing your "allies" and killing civilians? As much as you want to justify it by saying those are acceptable losses in war it doesn't mean there is any justice there, just a twisted sense of one, much like Lelouch's, Kallen's and yours

[Grey Dawn]

In stage 9, when in her refrain trance, Kallen's mother comments that once Kallen got brought into the Stadtfeld family she would be able to go out, use the phone, and not get beat randomly anymore. So, Kallen definately had a taste of being oppressed by Britannia.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

If I'm not mistaken she tells Zero that she thought the goal was justice, implying that their actions up until then aside from the vigilante work weren't on the side of justice, or that at least she had reservations about their actions.

That would of course depend on how you define justice, which is the problem here. You're focusing on the individual. Kallen's focused on the bigger picture. Having it strike close to home with Shirley's dad's death just got her thinking.

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Where is the justice in sacrificing your "allies" and killing civilians? As much as you want to justify it by saying those are acceptable losses in war it doesn't mean there is any justice there, just a twisted sense of one, much like Lelouch's, Kallen's and yours

As said, it depends on how broad you're defining justice. Personal justice, no. On a wider scale, nationally or applied to a certain group, yes. You can't always have both.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

That would of course depend on how you define justice, which is the problem here. You're focusing on the individual. Kallen's focused on the bigger picture. Having it strike close to home with Shirley's death just got her thinking.

As said, it depends on how broad you're defining justice. Personal justice, no. On a wider scale, nationally or applied to a certain group, yes. You can't always have both.

You mean Shirley's "dad's" death, right? Kallen had no reason to feel guilty about Shirley's death (none that I'm aware of anyway)

[morbosfist]

Doh!

Corrected.

[darthfury78]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

I doubt they'll do a remake but yeah, that's a pity.
Especially when you see how they used CD drama in R2. Fanservice, fanservice and pathetic fanservice.

My Kalulu fanheart is glad they focused a lot on her relationship with Lelouch this season. But as a Kallen fan I feel betrayed. Now maybe it's better, since they weren't even able to come with a decent BG for C.C.. With so many possibilities they choose to make of her a simple slave girl. Ahhh ridicule.
So yeah maybe some things are better left unsaid.

When it came to the picture drama, Season Two CD Drama was a complete waste of time. I'll agree with you on that one. Rather then to use that moment to tell the character's background story, all we saw was useless fanservice, except for maybe the first and last picture drama.

Another idea that they could have done was use those picture drama to explain how C.C. and Marianne have met, as well as to why C.C. gave her a contract. In addition, I had hoped that the picture drama might have explained how Marianne and Bismark was able to help Charles become the 98th Emperor of Britannia. Those important details were never addressed in Code Geass R2, which was ashame.

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

If I'm not mistaken she tells Zero that she thought the goal was justice, implying that their actions up until then aside from the vigilante work weren't on the side of justice, or that at least she had reservations about their actions.
Where is the justice in sacrificing your "allies" and killing civilians? As much as you want to justify it by saying those are acceptable losses in war it doesn't mean there is any justice there, just a twisted sense of one, much like Lelouch's, Kallen's and yours

Seeking justice in any side in a war through their actions is just an act of naivety. No side is inherently right or wrong, both of them need to do what is required of them in order to win, even it means sacrificing allies or killing civilians. The Allied forces in WW2 bombed Dresden to little itty bitty pieces, but that doesn't mean they are in the wrong.

Point is, shit happens in a war. And going philosophical about it is not gonna make you a very good soldier.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

What sense of Justice? If she had any she would've called it quits after the funeral for Shirley's dad, but instead she is easily reassured by Zero.
No one with a proper sense of justice would buy into Zero's twisted logic.

she considers quiting after it
its clear that the fact that innocent civilians might suffer as a result of her actions troubles her considerably
and zero's speech is what convinces her that she must carry on despite that unfortunate fact, because otherwise, she would have killed all those people for nothing in the end

but your view of justice is very limited if you view the accidental deaths of innocent enemy civilians as a proper excuse to justify a nation of about 100 million people having to live their lives as slaves to an oppressive empire that treats them like monkeys
justice is not pacifism, and its quite often, the willingness to act where others wont
some things are more important them others you know

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

Seeking justice in any side in a war through their actions is just an act of naivety. No side is inherently right or wrong, both of them need to do what is required of them in order to win, even it means sacrificing allies or killing civilians. The Allied forces in WW2 bombed Dresden to little itty bitty pieces, but that doesn't mean they are in the wrong.

Point is, shit happens in a war. And going philosophical about it is not gonna make you a very good soldier.

The allies never sacrificed large number of their own troops. Actually, I should say except for the USSR, and that ties in with what you say about neither side being inherently right or wrong. I fully agree with that statement, Stalin was just as big a monster as Hitler, and yet he was on the "good" side...

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

but your view of justice is very limited if you view the accidental deaths of innocent enemy civilians as a proper excuse to justify a nation of about 100 million people having to live their lives as slaves to an oppressive empire that treats them like monkeys
justice is not pacifism, and its quite often, the willingness to act where others wont
some things are more important them others you know

Justice is doing what is morally right based on fairness. That is why different crimes carry different sentences. It most certainly isn't willing to act where other people won't. That has another name, bravery or more often than not stupidity.

If Kallen wanted justice then she should've tried to be a judge, because there isn't much justice in war, much less in terrorism. You can sit there and justify killing your own allies and sacrificing civilians all you want, it doesn't make it righteous, and it sure as hell isn't justified.

I say she has no sense of justice because she actually bought Lelouch's crap about knights for justice. This is why her intelligence is so low on that chart, she's naive and downright dumb at times, incapable of seeing the larger picture. I mean, it only took her for a friend's father to die in one of their operations to finally realize what they were doing was nowhere near being righteous, and then she is easily manipulated by Lelouch and strung along for the rest of the season.