The Mohammed Editoral Cartoons

[Xellos-_^]

Just wondering what everyone opinions is on this.

let me my state my view on this issue.

1. I support Free Speech. I beleived Free Speech is one of the corner stone of Democracy and Human Rights and any attempt at supressing it should be view as a attack on Democracy.

2. I beleived the Danish and various European Newspaper have the right to publish the cartoon.

3. However I also believed just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean you should do it.

Common sense should have told the editors in the Danish newspaper to not publish those cartoons. Especially when they consider the how much of powder keg the whole middle east is. This is like delibratedly shouting fire in a movie theater.

Lawful but irresponsible.

Thoughts anyone?

[Mr.Hawq]

My thoughs on this is that no one, i mean no one has rights to ever publicize something so anti holy, and anti religous like that. FINAL

I mean there are tons of Muslims around the world there. People are so stereotypical like that, just because we are muslim, or you are muslim does not mean we are going to nuke you. Not only that, they did this on our holy prophet(peace be upon him).

[Lambda]

One of the marks of a civilised society is that absolutely no form of expression is prohibited simply due to groups of people finding it offensive.

I don't respect the creator of these cartoons, they're only really showing ignorance and insensitivity, but I will absolutely defend their right to do it.

[Kamui4356]

This thread is probably going to go quite badly...

I had heard that the cartoons were originally published in September. Is that true? If so, why is there a reaction now?

As for whether they should have been published, I don't see why not. Sure muslims have every right to be offended, but the reaction is totally out of proportion. Even if showing a depiction of the prophet is against islamic law, it doesn't justify violence. I don't see how anyone could have predicted such an outcome to this.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

This thread is probably going to go quite badly...

I had heard that the cartoons were originally published in September. Is that true? If so, why is there a reaction now?

it wa spublish in september and whole thing was dying down until several European Newspaper decided to "support" the Danish papers by re-publishing those cartoons.

As for whether they should have been published, I don't see why not. Sure muslims have every right to be offended, but the reaction is totally out of proportion. Even if showing a depiction of the prophet is against islamic law, it doesn't justify violence. I don't see how anyone could have predicted such an outcome to this.

While legally they have the right to publish then, should they have publish them? Considering the anti-west attitude in the islamic world and they fact that this isn't helping islamic leaders that favors closer ties to the west. They should have expected reactions like what they are getting. And don't tell me the editors in the various European newspaper didn't expect something like this to happen. If they didn't, then they should be fire incompetence.

[Ending]

It's a can of worms. Islamistic fanatics were fated to explode at some point and it happened to be Dennmark who corked the can. IMO, all this is just about religion gaining too much foothold among certain ethnics.

[Shay]

Yes, the cartoons were bad, and yes, something should be done. What? I don't know. Freedom of speech is, and always will be a delicate issue. However, take it to the courts, not to the streets...

Placards with slogans such as "Behead those who insult Islam" and "Europe you will pay, your 9/11 will come" is down right disgusting imo.

Bring back the Roman Empire I say!



*I just simply can't be serious*

[Mr.Hawq]

This is the cliche way of saying things " how would you feel if we did the same to you"

That is it, what would be the reactions if we did something disrespectful, and something that is negative towards Christ. Then again, we respect him cause in islam he is a prophet and a messenger.(dont get into an arguement about Christ)

This is just my example, sure i mean maybe we might have been responsible for 9/11, but Im not responsible for it or anything, and this is old news, what was the point of doing this at this time?

[gekko]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

it wa spublish in september and whole thing was dying down until several European Newspaper decided to "support" the Danish papers by re-publishing those cartoons.

Wrong, i was reheated and then the other european Newspapers published the cartoon to inform their viewers about the whole thing. Meanwhile thet admitted it wasn't really smart of the Danish but they too thought they had the right to Free Speech.

Personnely, i think that the freedom of Speech in the western world is in fact a right. But there are cultures where such thing doesn't excist and we have no right to push our rights upon them. Only by long term reasoning by both partys. But the Danish publisher already expressed their regrets and were sorry for the whole thing. Mission accomplished? Apperently no, the riots keep occuring and even an Italian Priest has been killed. This sort of violence is not acceptable no matter what the cause (even it's a 1000x more offensive to them as for us). I saw on TV that a teacher was burning the Danish flag together with children of 6-9 years old?? Talk about your role model....
So in short:
Do they have the right to be angry? Yes
Are violence, treats en burning Western builings tolerable? NO!

PS: sorry about the grammatical mistakes if any :S

[Kiva128]

This was posted on another forum I lurk on. Pretty much sums up what I (and others) think about the subject. I don't agree with it word for word but pretty much the jist of what's in there:

I ****ing love those Danes. There's just something about them that really makes it seem as if they have their heads screwed on. First they reject the Euro and now their government is standing firm over this, and good on them.

It boils down to this - printing those cartoons may have been insensitive. However sensitivity is not something you can demand. You can politely request it, and get told to go and get stuffed and then sulk because you didn't get treated as nicely as you wanted, but you certainly haven't got any justification to go any further than that.

There are limits to freedom of speech, but this cartoon did not really come anywhere near to violating those limits. Loads of people don't seem to be understanding this and go about comparing the cartoons to racist propaganda or incitements to genocide, when it's totally different. Similarly, a cartoon that unjustly insulted my sister, assuming I had one, would be libel and I would have legal recourse to deal with it.

LISTEN: Islam is not a race. Adherence to a particular religion is a choice people make after all, and as such they are choosing to be offended. The idea that this paper shouldn't be allowed to print such stuff JUST because it is a belief that some people hold dear just drives me crazy.

People all around me say things every day that offend my way of looking at the world and make me itch with hatred. If I set fire to the houses of these people will the Muslim Council of Britain stand firm behind me? Can I murder people who say things I really hate? Come on, just give me the signal. I don't really consider the cartoons to be a 'stupid' move either - they clearly appear to have had a self-fulfilling point, so from one point of view they could be seen to be incredibly clever.

To be honest, my patience has run thin with the muslim community as a whole. I've sympathised with British muslims a lot recently due to those attempts at anti-terrorism legislation which would have seen them screwed by police. However I'm tired of everyone being scared of the muslim reaction to perfectly reasonable things. There was a documentary/opinion piece on C4 recently about the redundancy of religion as a whole and how evil it was. It was a blinkered and ignorant piece of crap, tbh, but it had a right to exist - however, it focussed mainly on Christianity and Judaism and barely touched Islam, because everyone's too shitscared and pussyfoots around. I'm sick of it.

And I'm sickened by this attack by the muslim community on freedom of speech. It doesn't MATTER how great a man Mohammed was, or how many people love him, or whatever-tf, because everyone has a right NOT TO CARE. More than that they have a right to say, without any justification, that Mohammed was a worthless turd on legs. Muslims are retards. COPE WITH OTHER PEOPLE'S OPINIONS OR GTFO.

-Laivasse

[Shay]

Originally Posted by Mr.Hawq

This is just my example, sure i mean maybe we might have been responsible for 9/11, but Im not responsible for it or anything, and this is old news, what was the point of doing this at this time?

Old news? The protests in London happened on Friday. Link

And cartoons about Jesus? Are you serious? Monty Python has being doing shit like that for decades.

I'm sorry but the reaction by the "extremist" Muslim community was outrageous and to me it only illustrated how their mentality and way of thinking hasn't changed one bit in a thousand years. It’s barbaric. Sorry. That is my opinion and I'm entitled to it..

[Willuknight]

thats a good post Kiva, i agree with that view.

Here is an interview with the editor of the Danish Newspaper that started it:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/1117914...week/from/RL.1/

I think it's problematic if any religion—it doesn't matter if it's Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, any religion—tries to impose its own taboos on the public domain.

When I go to a mosque, I behave by the rules that exist in that holy house. I will not stand up and make a cartoon of the holy prophet in a mosque. But I think if any religion insists that I, as a non-Muslim, should submit to their taboos, then I don't think they're showing me respect. I think they're asking for my submission. This is a key issue in this debate.

Someone wrote this on another forum, which i thought was rather hilarious

Originally posted by NZSnake
The correct response to this situation would of been this...
"Oh haha; Real mature there Mr Western Person. Jokes over don't do it again."

However we got the Incorrect way to handle the situation which is...
"OMGWTFINFIDEL I F****** BURN YOU YOU MOTHERF*****, I WILL RIP OFF YOUR HEAD AND PLAY SCOCCER WITH IT, I WILL KILL YOUR CHILDREN, I WILL BLOW YOU ALL UP, I WILL BE BLESSED FOREVER BECAUSE MY GOD IS BETTER THAN YOURS, OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG, GO DIE, DIE BEFORE I BLOW YOU UP!!!!!!11111111889189128912"

Sure, the cartoons are disrespectful, and offensive - no argument. However the way that *some* muslims are responding to this is criminal. Death Threats and burning of embassays ? Countryings holding trade negotiations as blackmail against free speach ? This is far beyond what is acceptable.

For a lighter look at things:



It rhymes it rhymes !!!

[Shay]

Originally Posted by Willuknight

For a lighter look at things:



It rhymes it rhymes !!!

LOL!

I wish Arnold Schwarzenegger would point at them and say "Stop Whining!"


I'd use a pic here but xris would probably ban me.

[Mr.Hawq]

Old news? The protests in London happened on Friday.

i was talking about how 9/11 was old news

and have you heard of seen anyone that is muslim that has publicized a negative cartoon about Christ?

[Green²]

http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2006/2/5/132139/4838

Seen this through RAWstory yesterday.

Iran also cut ties with Denmark today.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/religion_...kxBHNlYwN0bQ--
Not that that self sanction will mean anything anyway, thanks to their nuke program.


Iran: Screw you! We don't need your crap goods anymore!

EU / US: Nuke program? That's it, roll the sanctions.

Iran: Shit! Uh,.. Denmark, you know we we're just kidding, right? Right?

[Illuyankas]

Hmm...





Right...


Of course, the islamic newspaper who published a cartoon of Hitler and Anne Frank in bed together as a response to this are not helping their cause either.

[Mr_Paper]

Honestly, my thoughts on this aren't too pleasant and I'm not going to post too much for fear of insulting more people than one could count in a life time. >.>

First, has anyone here actually seen the comics in question? I have and I must say I'd be hard pressed to find anything offensive enough in any of them to warrent anything near an outcry of this level.

http://blog.newspaperindex.com/2005/...posten-racism/
(the images in question)

As far is placating them is concerned...

There isn’t an inch to give, nothing to negotiate and no concessions to be offered. Those of us who believe in enlightenment and free speech also have unalterable principles which we will not give up. We have to listen all the time to piratical-looking mullahs calling our Jewish friends pigs, mocking and deny the deaths of millions in the world's face, killing innocent people in the name of Allah, inciting violence against nations and peoples unrelated, demanding the censorship of The Satanic Verses and we find this all fantastically insulting, but we don’t behave like babies and riot over it as we recognize that free speach also means listening to that we find objectionable. They are making a puerile spectacle of themselves and I'm saviouring every moment of it.

If we can put up with all the 'crap' they've pulled and thrown at us, they can learn to deal with a dozen caricatures of their prophet depicted in less than offensive manners.

To summerize: The can sit on their collective thumbs and spin for all I care. >.>;

*prepares to get negative repped like the world was about to end*

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by Mr.Hawq

i was talking about how 9/11 was old news

and off topic...

and have you heard of seen anyone that is muslim that has publicized a negative cartoon about Christ?

No, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Even if they don't, considering muslims believe christ to be a prophet, I doubt the lack of such cartoons comes from a respect of other cultures, rather from their own beliefs.

In any case, do you really think christians would respond to such a cartoon by rioting and burning embassies? There is something seriously wrong with that kind of reaction to this, and it only serves to re-enforce the view of islam presented by a picture of mohammad with a bomb on his head.

If christians did respond like that, I'd be just as appalled.

[Mr.Hawq]

No, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Even if they don't, considering muslims believe christ to be a prophet, I doubt the lack of such cartoons comes from a respect of other cultures, rather from their own beliefs.

In any case, do you really think christians would respond to such a cartoon by rioting and burning embassies? There is something seriously wrong with that kind of reaction to this, and it only serves to re-enforce the view of islam presented by a picture of mohammad with a bomb on his head.

If christians did respond like that, I'd be just as appalled.

Well then we will have to wait and see.

and i was just responding to this quote by Shay

And cartoons about Jesus? Are you serious? Monty Python has being doing shit like that for decades.

and for the 9/11 one i was also just responding to the quote by Shay again

Old news? The protests in London happened on Friday.

this does not really mean that i was off topic or anything, i was just correcting him for misunderstanding to a topic which is in somewhat way related to this event, but its old. and his wrong came from my wrong where i should have replaced "this" with the word "that"

[Chronissz]

Unfortunatly this is only getting worse, its a shame that this is the way these crowds have decided to handle this. Rioting, burning, destruction, bomb threats (I really hope these stay threats), and now deaths all for what...

(CNN) -- Tens of thousands of Muslims around the world have staged new rounds of protests -- some resulting in deaths -- over published cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapc...sts/index.html

The thing that sickens me most is that, how much backlash will this spell for Muslims all around the globe that have nothing to do with this, and the political implications that are already showing their ugly head (Iran blocking Danish trade).