Code Geass: Akito the Exiled OVA - Episode 2 Discussion / Poll

[Xander]

Originally Posted by gordol

People are saying Vercingetorix gives vibes of being VERY powerful and has some gimmicks not yet shown besides the horse mode transformation. It's a KOR KMF made by Camelot anyway. Akito gonna need an upgrade to beat that.

I'm dying to see the new Lancelot design but unless there's a camrip or a film piece appears we're going to wait until the PSN rip.

I can also see Julius getting a custom KMF to direct troops directly in the field.

I'm sort of expecting a twist where Vercingetorix loses against the Lancelot, so perhaps Akito will have trouble even if they upgrade the Alexander.

I don't think Julius will have a powerful machine though. Perhaps just a repainted Sutherland or Gloucester. Or maybe he'll stay in a G-1 base all the time. That's more likely.

I'm interested in the rest of the possible upgrades or new units though, especially for the other Britannian knights and their orders.

[gordol]

Originally Posted by Xander

I'm sort of expecting a twist where Vercingetorix loses against the Lancelot, so perhaps Akito will have trouble even if they upgrade the Alexander.

I don't think Julius will have a powerful machine though. Perhaps just a repainted Sutherland or Gloucester. Or maybe he'll stay in a G-1 base all the time. That's more likely.

I'm interested in the rest of the possible upgrades or new units though, especially for the other Britannian knights and their orders.

I wouldn't waste an opportunity of selling a Lelouch custom KMF merchandise, but I agree it's very unlikely he'll get something completely new

[Fireminer]

Glouchester Long Range Custow with MVS for Lelouch?

[Masurao45]

Originally Posted by Xander

I'm sort of expecting a twist where Vercingetorix loses against the Lancelot, so perhaps Akito will have trouble even if they upgrade the Alexander.

I don't think Julius will have a powerful machine though. Perhaps just a repainted Sutherland or Gloucester. Or maybe he'll stay in a G-1 base all the time. That's more likely.

I'm interested in the rest of the possible upgrades or new units though, especially for the other Britannian knights and their orders.

I agree, Julius will probably be given a Gawain derivative prototype machine before the Galahad and the Gareths roll out if possible.

[azul120]

Originally Posted by Xander

Do you think that's a positive or a negative? I think it's appropriate.

The Knights of the Round might be the single highest order of Britannian knights in the land because they answer to nobody but the Emperor, yet it's reasonable that there would be other important knightly orders below them, from which you'd think some of the Knights of the Round would be typically recruited under normal circumstances.

Likewise, since the E.U. campaign seems to be handled less by the Emperor himself and more by factions of other high-ranking nobles, there should be plenty of military and economic autonomy. At least, of course, until Suzaku and the other Rounds intervene.

There's also the fact that the E.U. theater of war should be where the largest conventional battlefields are found, compared to local occupations like that of Japan.

No, no, I'm talking about the Knightmare names. All but one were used by GF0083 in his fanfic.

[Scherzo09]

Haven't watched it yet, so trying to ignore spoilers (besides a vague understanding of one of the obvious ones), but is Euro-Britannia considered like a separate entity from the main Imperial Britannian Forces, sort of like the French Foriegn Legion or the Flying Tigers. My personal sort of fanon is that the current European war started with Euro-Britannia intervening to restore the Romanov Dynasty to the Russian Imperial throne as a Britannian proxy, which eventually spread to a war against the EU when they initially resisted.

I don't think Britannia would outright annex the entire world; they'd only do it to cultures they see as 'unfit for self-government', much the same way as McKinley views the Filippinos here: http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5575/ Actually, the Untied States occupation and fight against the Filippino insurgency might be a good analog for the Occupation of Area 11.

[Masurao45]

Originally Posted by Scherzo09

Haven't watched it yet, so trying to ignore spoilers (besides a vague understanding of one of the obvious ones), but is Euro-Britannia considered like a separate entity from the main Imperial Britannian Forces, sort of like the French Foriegn Legion or the Flying Tigers. My personal sort of fanon is that the current European war started with Euro-Britannia intervening to restore the Romanov Dynasty to the Russian Imperial throne as a Britannian proxy, which eventually spread to a war against the EU when they initially resisted.

I don't think Britannia would outright annex the entire world; they'd only do it to cultures they see as 'unfit for self-government', much the same way as McKinley views the Filippinos here: http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5575/ Actually, the Untied States occupation and fight against the Filippino insurgency might be a good analog for the Occupation of Area 11.

Yeah it's like part of their division whereas the regular britannia controls their own territory consisting of one third of the world similar with Euro Britannia unlike UFN which is made up of various countries to counter them. In R2 episode 16, if you see the map, it is implied that Euro Britannia is part of the color which Britannia takes control of.

[Xander]

Originally Posted by Scherzo09

Haven't watched it yet, so trying to ignore spoilers (besides a vague understanding of one of the obvious ones), but is Euro-Britannia considered like a separate entity from the main Imperial Britannian Forces, sort of like the French Foriegn Legion or the Flying Tigers. My personal sort of fanon is that the current European war started with Euro-Britannia intervening to restore the Romanov Dynasty to the Russian Imperial throne as a Britannian proxy, which eventually spread to a war against the EU when they initially resisted.

I don't think Britannia would outright annex the entire world; they'd only do it to cultures they see as 'unfit for self-government', much the same way as McKinley views the Filippinos here: http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5575/ Actually, the Untied States occupation and fight against the Filippino insurgency might be a good analog for the Occupation of Area 11.

That's an interesting question.

Look at this image from the official website for a moment:



http://www.geass.jp/akito/about_geass.html

The actual map appears to be from R2. I'd wish I could translate the Japanese text in this image, or the other pictures in the same sequence that seem to be rather whimsical but important explanatory material, since it looks like there would be a better official explanation than what I'm about to type, especially for the details...but let's get to the point.

In addition to showing the rarely seen E.U. flag, it also suggests that Euro Britannia both has a slightly different flag and is apparently effectively a regional subdivision of the Holy Britannian Empire, though I don't know if that's formally or just de facto since the Emperor is uninterested in micromanaging the conflict, leaving the European nobles and the Duke leading them to their own affairs.

If you rewatch the first episode, that specific Euro Britannia flag can be seen in a couple of places, like outside the building where Manfredi and Shin are talking.

Previews for the second episode show us an untouched Euro Britannian city with a statue of the Emperor plus what looks like the Cyrillic writing system. I guess that's compatible with your assumption that in certain areas the locals have a Russian or Eastern European culture and don't necessarily see themselves as a conquered people, which might be a hint of what you're speculating about or something equivalent.

In general, I have the impression that the second episode might well try to address some of these things whenever the Euro Britannians are talking among themselves, but most of the spoilers don't really go into the details of the less "shocking" or action-centric parts.

[Scherzo09]

Well I would guess that Euro-Britannia would be a federation of Monarchies, as opposed to the system of Areas in the Homeland and areas deemed fit for colonization.

[Xander]

Originally Posted by Scherzo09

Well I would guess that Euro-Britannia would be a federation of Monarchies, as opposed to the system of Areas in the Homeland and areas deemed fit for colonization.

Maybe that could be the dream or final projected outcome of the Euro Britannian campaign, in the eyes of its participants and organizers, but for the time being they don't seem to have established control over more than Russia (which is already lot!) and various Eastern European territories. So there's not a lot of available crowns to choose from until the fall of Europe in R2.

I also imagine that if the Duke is too ambitious and wants to unilaterally declare himself a monarch that would potentially put him in conflict with the mainland.

[Scherzo09]

@Xander: Yeah, a big thing about Britannia to me is that its generally not the Emperor directly directing things unless there's extraordinary circumstances; generally its the Imperial Bureaucracy and Parliament. I think that kinda helps separate what Britannia was under Charles from the honest to God Absolutism Lelouch wielded as Emperor.

My understanding is that Britannia became a haven for the Royal and Noble Families of Europe who fled as the Revolutionary Wave spread from France across the continent. Euro-Britannia is specifically those European houses who wish to reclaim their titles they feel were usurped by the plebs and anarchists; or at least my understanding is that it is. I also (and again this is just fanon) have the war from CC's Flashback being a war between the EU and Russian Empire about 50 or 60 years or so before the beginning of the series; that the Russian Monarchy was the most recent one to fall I feel would make it one of the ideal places to start.

I'm sort of surprised that all these maps keep giving Southeast Asia to the Asian Federation; I thought most of it had been conquered by Britannia before they had even invaded Japan. (I also like to think Indonesia and Indochina were EU colonies before Britannia annexed them)

[konart]

Originally Posted by Xander

That's an interesting question.

Look at this image from the official website for a moment:

http://www.geass.jp/akito/about_geass.html

The actual map appears to be from R2. I'd wish I could translate the Japanese text in this image, or the other pictures in the same sequence that seem to be rather whimsical but important explanatory material, since it looks like there would be a better official explanation than what I'm about to type, especially for the details...but let's get to the point.

In addition to showing the rarely seen E.U. flag, it also suggests that Euro Britannia both has a slightly different flag and is apparently effectively a regional subdivision of the Holy Britannian Empire, though I don't know if that's formally or just de facto since the Emperor is uninterested in micromanaging the conflict, leaving the European nobles and the Duke leading them to their own affairs.

If you rewatch the first episode, that specific Euro Britannia flag can be seen in a couple of places, like outside the building where Manfredi and Shin are talking.

Previews for the second episode show us an untouched Euro Britannian city with a statue of the Emperor plus what looks like the Cyrillic writing system. I guess that's compatible with your assumption that in certain areas the locals have a Russian or Eastern European culture and don't necessarily see themselves as a conquered people, which might be a hint of what you're speculating about or something equivalent.

In general, I have the impression that the second episode might well try to address some of these things whenever the Euro Britannians are talking among themselves, but most of the spoilers don't really go into the details of the less "shocking" or action-centric parts.

The place they are entering during th PV is Belarussian town Slonim http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slonim - you can see it's name "Слонiм" written in belarussian on a side of a road and it's seal.

[Xander]

It seems I missed posting about this...

Originally Posted by azul120

No, no, I'm talking about the Knightmare names. All but one were used by GF0083 in his fanfic.

Michael, Uriel, Raphael, Gabriel?

Those aren't actually Knightmare Frame names at all though. They're simply the names of the respective Holy Knight Orders. They're military organizations, not KMF models.

Originally Posted by konart

The place they are entering during th PV is Belarussian town Slonim http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slonim - you can see it's name "Слонiм" written in belarussian on a side of a road and it's seal.

That's very good to know. Thanks!

Looking at the photos, it seems they did try to maintain some of the town layout and the architectural style in the anime.

Originally Posted by Scherzo09

@Xander: Yeah, a big thing about Britannia to me is that its generally not the Emperor directly directing things unless there's extraordinary circumstances; generally its the Imperial Bureaucracy and Parliament. I think that kinda helps separate what Britannia was under Charles from the honest to God Absolutism Lelouch wielded as Emperor.

My understanding is that Britannia became a haven for the Royal and Noble Families of Europe who fled as the Revolutionary Wave spread from France across the continent. Euro-Britannia is specifically those European houses who wish to reclaim their titles they feel were usurped by the plebs and anarchists; or at least my understanding is that it is. I also (and again this is just fanon) have the war from CC's Flashback being a war between the EU and Russian Empire about 50 or 60 years or so before the beginning of the series; that the Russian Monarchy was the most recent one to fall I feel would make it one of the ideal places to start.

I'm sort of surprised that all these maps keep giving Southeast Asia to the Asian Federation; I thought most of it had been conquered by Britannia before they had even invaded Japan. (I also like to think Indonesia and Indochina were EU colonies before Britannia annexed them)

They're probably a mix of European Royal houses and various types of nobles who escaped the revolutions, but after a couple of centuries most of their descendants should have properly assimilated into Britannia. Right now, the Duke (Verance, or August Henry Highland) is apparently the political head of the faction which is behind the entire campaign, while the four Holy Knight Orders spearhead the military side of Euro Britannia. It doesn't seem like he has any direct rivals or peers.

Practically speaking, I don't think the Imperial establishment expects to let them reconstitute their countries as semi-independent entities, at least not without maintaining a crystal-clear subservience to the ruling Emperor.

It wouldn't be an understatement to say that Code Geass maps usually made my head spin a little.

[Scherzo09]

One thing that does bug me a little from a worldbuilding standpoint is how they use Modern World maps to chart the Afro-Eurasian Countries. Like there's no reason why Lesotho should be an EU colony surrounded by a Britannian one.

[Scherzo09]

Originally Posted by Xander

They're probably a mix of European Royal houses and various types of nobles who escaped the revolutions, but after a couple of centuries most of their descendants should have properly assimilated into Britannia. Right now, the Duke (August Henry Highland) is apparently the political head of the faction which is behind the entire campaign. It doesn't seem like he has any direct rivals or peers.

One of the things you have to realize though is that the noble houses of Europe were already intermarrying anyways. German princes and princes would often become Russian Tsars, the House Windsor started as a German Royal family, and William III, King of England after the Glorious Revolution, was the Dutch Prince William of Orange. So to the noble aristocracy there was already a common culture anyways. And I think as point of pride and as a practical means of keeping their holdings, they would continue their households constituted in Britannia. IRL there's a lot of bookkeeping you can look up about the noble households for states that have long since stopped being monarchies, such as Germany or Romania. So to me I feel like the European households would still maintain a direct linneage from the old country to the modern day.

Practically speaking, I don't think the Imperial establishment expects to let them reconstitute their countries as semi-independent entities, at least not without maintaining a crystal-clear subservience to the ruling Emperor.

Oh of course not; I was thinking it'd be along the lines of the Holy Roman Empire. I just think that for European countries the illusion of sovereignty would help ease the transition from the EU's democracy to the semi-constitutional Monarchy of Britannia. I don't think Euro-Britannia is acting unilaterally here, its just that I think its goals are somewhat different than the sort of "White Man's Burden" role they see in areas like Area 11.

[Xander]

Originally Posted by Scherzo09

And I think as point of pride and as a practical means of keeping their holdings, they would continue their households constituted in Britannia. IRL there's a lot of bookkeeping you can look up about the noble households for states that have long since stopped being monarchies, such as Germany or Romania. So to me I feel like the European households would still maintain a direct linneage from the old country to the modern day.

Your explanation makes perfect sense for real life, but we should take into account the many special circumstances here.

In Code Geass, there seem to be no other active empires or monarchies in the West besides Britannia. This means there were two or three centuries with almost no opportunities to put in practice the vast majority of those European titles, as opposed to whatever Britannian titles were readily available or which were acquired by marriage. The rest would just be paper rights, at least outside of the recently acquired Russian or Eastern territories of Euro Britannia, but then there's the matter of whether the Emperor has allowed anyone to formally become the Russian Tsar just yet. I'm guessing no, either due to formalities or because it could be interpreted as a challenge to the Emperor's authority.

Even if there are detailed records of all these former European titles, there's the matter of exactly how many European nobles have enough rank and influence within Britannia itself, given all the ups and downs of Britannian politics and its cyclical conflicts over succession to the throne. Consolidation of the major titles into less hands through arranged marriages as well as assassinations wouldn't be out of the question.

There's also the issue of exactly how many royal families actually survived to escape to Britannia. And then you have those noble families which may have either stayed in the E.U. by giving up their rights, or those which eventually returned to Europe after defecting from Britannia, like Leila's father, for whatever political, social or economic reasons.

I guess there might well be multiple people with claims equal or superior to whatever old European title is claimed by Duke Verance, though I wouldn't be surprised if he has a claim to something big since Duke is already an important rank for someone who isn't Britannian royalty, but he might still be the single most influential person and thus is recognized as being the head of the Euro Britannian faction within the Holy Britannian Empire.

I'm sure some of these guesses might well be proven wrong or irrelevant by the show though, but a few might be confirmed or hinted at.

Oh of course not; I was thinking it'd be along the lines of the Holy Roman Empire. I just think that for European countries the illusion of sovereignty would help ease the transition from the EU's democracy to the semi-constitutional Monarchy of Britannia. I don't think Euro-Britannia is acting unilaterally here, its just that I think its goals are somewhat different than the sort of "White Man's Burden" role they see in areas like Area 11.

I think the very short conversation between Manfredi and Shin may indicate there is some sort of Euro Britannian ideal which could incorporate those or other similar concepts, in opposition to the stagnant republic, though I don't know if they'll elaborate on the details.

[Scherzo09]

Originally Posted by Xander

In Code Geass, there seem to be no other active empires or monarchies in the West besides Britannia. This means there were two or three centuries with almost no opportunities to put in practice the vast majority of those European titles, as opposed to whatever Britannian titles were readily available or which were acquired by marriage. The rest would just be paper rights, at least outside of the recently acquired Russian or Eastern territories of Euro Britannia, but then there's the matter of whether the Emperor has allowed anyone to formally become the Russian Tsar just yet. I'm guessing no, either due to formalities or because it could be interpreted as a challenge to the Emperor's authority.

The time frame depends on what ATB means now. Akito seems to imply that, contrary to the supplementary material of the series, ATB is the exact same dating scheme as Anno Domini. A bit of semantic, I know, but it could be as little as 150 or as much as 200.

I don't think there were necessarily that many households 'open' at the time. America at the time of the French of the Revolution is still for the most part unsettled, so I don't think that it'd be too difficult for disenfranchised noble families to stake claims on the frontier. The extent to wish Non-British culture is extant within Britannia (Bismark, Marianne, and even French names like Clovis and Lelouch (which is a corruption of LaRouche) ) makes me feel like that was kept alive.

I don't think the Britannian government would allow Russia to regain the title Tsar, you're right about that. I think at most they'd let a few states have Kings (most having Dukes or Princes), if only so Charles could claim the title King of Kings.

Even if there are detailed records of all these former European titles, there's the matter of exactly how many European nobles have enough rank and influence within Britannia itself, given all the ups and downs of Britannian politics and its cyclical conflicts over succession to the throne. Consolidation of the major titles into less hands through arranged marriages as well as assassinations wouldn't be out of the question.

Well I take the existence of Euro-Britannia as basically meaning the Continental nobility are a sizable political faction. You have to remember that the core of what would become the Britannian Empire were essentially refugees themselves from Britain, so they'd be on a pretty equivalent footing from the royal families from the rest of Europe who were also driven out by the Revolutionaries. I'm not saying that every European household survived, lineages died off all the time. (England had to go through several dynasties after the English Civil War before the Windsors stuck). But I see the aristocracy of Britannia not just representing British interests but that of the entire Old World aristocracy. That doesn't mean they get along, though.

Also I don't think Britannia's history is quite as turbulent as they make it out to be, because you just can't run an empire with continuous strife. I don't think it'd be anymore turbulent than Britain had been, though that isn't saying too much because Britain did have pretty turbulent wars of succession. But I think generally succession crisis's would've been created mainly by conflicting political interests, and not randomly arising from individual ambition, though that'd certainly play a part. I also think that historically the position of Emperor hadn't been a particularly strong position in practice, with most power vested in the nobility in the Bureaucracy and Parliament.

There's also the issue of exactly how many royal families actually survived to escape to Britannia. And then you have those noble families which may have either stayed in the E.U. by giving up their rights, or those which eventually returned to Europe after defecting from Britannia, like Leila's father, for whatever political, social or economic reasons.

I think if they decided to stay in Europe, for whatever reason, they probably would've considered abdicating and those would be open season for whoever could claim them.

I guess there might well be multiple people with claims equal or superior to whatever old European title is claimed by Duke Verance, though I wouldn't be surprised if he has a claim to something big since Duke is already an important rank for someone who isn't Britannian royalty, but he might still be the single most influential person and thus is recognized as being the head of the Euro Britannian faction within the Holy Britannian Empire.

Well I mean it could be that what Household is entitled to what is also a political issue that people squabble over. There'd probably a Britannian Claims Assessor for things like that.

I'm sure some of these guesses might well be proven wrong or irrelevant by the show though, but a few might be confirmed or hinted at.

Well its a fun thing to think about, I like parsing out worlds worldbuilding.

I think the very short conversation between Manfredi and Shin may indicate there is some sort of Euro Britannian ideal which could incorporate those or other similar concepts, in opposition to the stagnant republic, though I don't know if they'll elaborate on the details.

I think if they're going that route, they need to show the benefits of both a Lockean Republic and a Hobbesian Monarchy. Otherwise I just feel like it'd be jarring for Britannia to suddenly be portrayed as this Austere faction and the Democrats as Decadent, when in the OF series it was the other way around.

[Blackmambauk]

what I wonder at times is the eu territories in Africa, did they join the eu or were they colonies around the time the EU was set up, plus you have to wonder how the eu has real world map setup, it seems to hint to laziness on the part of the writers to reflect the changed history of code Geass from real world, especially on who beat napoleon at waterloo since he conquered Britain in Code Geass world.

It' ain't impossible but the writers could've been more clear on how the eu came to be about part form what they gave us as the specific's are a bit vague for my tastes, and as I have said before seems to show they didn't really look into European history very well, which is a bit insulting when you come from Europe like me. as someone pointed out on TV tropes, the changed history of Julius caser never conquering Britain and Napoleon conquering Britain actually would mean Britain never existing as a nation in a way, plus Napoleon conquering Europe would most likely mean Germany would never come into proper existence if Bismarck etc. never had the chance to rise.

plus how did the first world war come about, or the war C.C was briefly shown to appear in in episode 25 of season one. It's vagueness like this that makes code Geass a bit annoying at times, feels they wasted the potential to explore a lot of things.

Of course this is all very debateable, plus in the long run matters little since whatever happens in Akito leads on to the eu's state in R2.

But looking forward to seeing the rest of Akito

[Fireminer]

Probally they reserved it for Akito.

And beside, even Gundam itself (especially 00) has a lot of history hole.

[Scherzo09]

Originally Posted by Blackmambauk

what I wonder at times is the eu territories in Africa, did they join the eu or were they colonies around the time the EU was set up, plus you have to wonder how the eu has real world map setup, it seems to hint to laziness on the part of the writers to reflect the changed history of code Geass from real world, especially on who beat napoleon at waterloo since he conquered Britain in Code Geass world.

First, I feel like its heavily implied those are colonies of the EU Metropolitan countries, not full member states. To kinda walk back what I said earlier, I like the EU being not much better in the area of treating people of Non-European dissent. In fact I have both the EU and Britannia having this as their colonial policy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assimil...rench_colonial). I also give the EU the French and Dutch holdings in Southeast Asia before the Invasion of Japan.

The Post-WWII map for states is kind of annoying, but I can't blame them too much for not putting that much detail in (EU Lesotho is ridiculous though). But as the poster above me said, Napoleon has been retconned so that he's arrested and executed before he can enact the 18th of Brumaire Coup D'etat.

It' ain't impossible but the writers could've been more clear on how the eu came to be about part form what they gave us as the specific's are a bit vague for my tastes, and as I have said before seems to show they didn't really look into European history very well, which is a bit insulting when you come from Europe like me. as someone pointed out on TV tropes, the changed history of Julius caser never conquering Britain and Napoleon conquering Britain actually would mean Britain never existing as a nation in a way, plus Napoleon conquering Europe would most likely mean Germany would never come into proper existence if Bismarck etc. never had the chance to rise.

I get around it by having the Britons passively accepting Roman culture instead of having it imposed on them, as obviously Britannia, down to its name, is heavily indebted to Roman Culture, and there's nothing really preventing the Anglo-Saxon invasion. The modern German borders are pretty inexplicable, but really all they'd have to do is add East Prussia and Pomerania and it'd be fine. The EU is basically if the French Revolution had swept up all of Europe.

plus how did the first world war come about, or the war C.C was briefly shown to appear in in episode 25 of season one. It's vagueness like this that makes code Geass a bit annoying at times, feels they wasted the potential to explore a lot of things.

Mentioned this before but my theory is that it was a war in the 1910s/20s between the EU and the Russian Empire.