Character Discussion - Suzaku

[NoemiChan]

@brolyeuphyfusion>> I'm just asking, but I wouldn't use the word "hate" but preferably "disgust or disappointment" is more appropriate to explain Euphie's feeling against Britannia...

[brolyeuphyfusion]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

@brolyeuphyfusion>> I'm just asking, but I wouldn't use the word "hate" but preferably "disgust or disappointment" is more appropriate to explain Euphie's feeling against Britannia...

sorry but it really is hate, euphemia wanted the brittanians wiped from the face of the planet

anyway suzaku is good for his spinning kick, aside from that nothing's going for him

[Lost Cause]

Originally Posted by brolyeuphyfusion

sorry but it really is hate, euphemia wanted the brittanians wiped from the face of the planet

anyway suzaku is good for his spinning kick, aside from that nothing's going for him

Really?! He single handedly took out most if the Knights of the Round, was the proverbial fly in Lelouch's ointment, and kept Kallen very busy in the battlefield. The perfect "Sapper" if you ask me!

[ChocoBar9]

I'm starting to think this guy is a poor troll

[mystogan]

suzaku is one heck of a guy, uses the best nightmare that's lancelot,

man suzaku and euphimia should have really gotten together, so sad they couldn't

[prototype_sky]

Suzaku is my favorite character period. I liked how throughout the series it was pretty much role reversal for him and Lelouche. It would've made more sense for Suzaku to be leading the rebillion being the son of the prime minister and Lelouche being a knight of Britannia being a prince and his mom was a stellar pilot.

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by mystogan

suzaku is one heck of a guy, uses the best nightmare that's lancelot,

man suzaku and euphimia should have really gotten together, so sad they couldn't

Actually Kallen's final Gurren has much higher specs than the final Lancelot. Curse of Geass was the only reason he could keep up with Kallen.

[mystogan]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Actually Kallen's final Gurren has much higher specs than the final Lancelot. Curse of Geass was the only reason he could keep up with Kallen.

but he is the only one who could use the geass to his advantage, Lelouch did say that he has become a warrior like no other,
and Suzaku had to fake his death somehow, because that was the part of the plan , because later on he had to become Zero,
the battle between suzaku and kallen might had been a death match for kallen , but i don't think it was the same for Suzaku

it doesn't mean that kallen is weak, they are around equal

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by mystogan

the battle between suzaku and kallen might had been a death match for kallen , but i don't think it was the same for Suzaku

This again. Suzaku wasn't faking anything. He outright says that he's trying to win and cannot because Kallen is simply too strong for him to beat. You can't get much clearer than that.

[mystogan]

^the battle was all real,Kallen might had overpowered him at some point, i was just enlightening the situation, how else would you explain Suzaku faking his death against Kallen

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by mystogan

^the battle was all real,Kallen might had overpowered him at some point, i was just enlightening the situation, how else would you explain Suzaku faking his death against Kallen

Luck, because it was in no way planned on his part. He wouldn't be monologing about his inability to win if he planned to lose, plain and simple.

[mystogan]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Luck, because it was in no way planned on his part. He wouldn't be monologing about his inability to win if he planned to lose, plain and simple.

it might not be exactly how it was planned out, but technically when they fought din't he broke the Gurren just before the Lancelot explodes, even though Suzaku thinks that he might not be able to defeat her, somehow the battle ends up in a tie, as i said they are equal

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by mystogan

it might not be exactly how it was planned out, but technically when they fought din't he broke the Gurren just before the Lancelot explodes, even though Suzaku thinks that he might not be able to defeat her, somehow the battle ends up in a tie, as i said they are equal

The Lancelot exploded because the attack that broke the Guren didn't stop Kallen in time. She got the final hit in despite getting disabled, otherwise the Lancelot wouldn't have exploded at all.

And, just to be technical, they're not equal if Suzaku has to spend most of that fight with his Geass active. It means she's better and he just has an unnatural boost to even the odds. If I were to draw examples from the entire series, I could easily say she is flat-out a better pilot than he is.

[Sol Falling]

Spec-wise the Guren had an edge over the Lancelot though. You can't say that Kallen's advantage only came from skill. Certainly Kallen had to surpass any of Lloyd or Cecile's expectations in order to make use of that potential, but it is canon that through that point to the endgame of the series Kallen had the most powerful knightmare.

It is also disingenuous to imply that Suzaku's mastery over his inflicted Geass isn't an achievement in itself. Fundamentally that is an unprecedented mental accomplishment within the series. For Suzaku to have been able to make use of his geass as a weapon in that manner, is in itself a credit to his abilities.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Spec-wise the Guren had an edge over the Lancelot though. You can't say that Kallen's advantage only came from skill. Certainly Kallen had to surpass any of Lloyd or Cecile's expectations in order to make use of that potential, but it is canon that through that point to the endgame of the series Kallen had the most powerful knightmare.

It is also disingenuous to imply that Suzaku's mastery over his inflicted Geass isn't an achievement in itself. Fundamentally that is an unprecedented mental accomplishment within the series. For Suzaku to have been able to make use of his geass as a weapon in that manner, is in itself a credit to his abilities.

Fair points. I would still argue that Kallen's skill surpasses his, for reasons aside from that last fight. As for Suzaku mastering his Geass, it demonstrates mental focus, but it's still inherently an outside force boosting his abilities. Even if he didn't have control of it, "scorned woman in the most powerful Knightmare" seems a valid criteria to trigger it.

[Lost Cause]

^Or maybe just another of her psychotic episodes kicked in.
But as I remember it, the Guren fell away just before the Lancelot exploded. Suzaku said she had "got him" but yet he lives on as Zero. So in the end he did in fact win!

[Destined_Fate]

No he lost. Being Zero means that Suzaku was always wrong and has to admit that the system cannot always be changed from the inside which validates everything Lelouch did and invalidates anything Suzaku did to stop Lelouch/Zero. Thus Suzaku won nothing and is forced to live on as Zero in a world that Lelouch desired and created and not one he desired or created.

Originally Posted by morbosfist

The Lancelot exploded because the attack that broke the Guren didn't stop Kallen in time. She got the final hit in despite getting disabled, otherwise the Lancelot wouldn't have exploded at all.

And, just to be technical, they're not equal if Suzaku has to spend most of that fight with his Geass active. It means she's better and he just has an unnatural boost to even the odds. If I were to draw examples from the entire series, I could easily say she is flat-out a better pilot than he is.

Which makes Gino's insistence that he's the better KMF pilot stupid since Suzaku kicked the crude out of Gino without any effort at all. Personally I believe he was just using that as an excuse to try and get in Kallen's pants. Good luck trying to prove an equal to Lelouch.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

No he lost. Being Zero means that Suzaku was always wrong and has to admit that the system cannot always be changed from the inside which validates everything Lelouch did and invalidates anything Suzaku did to stop Lelouch/Zero. Thus Suzaku won nothing and is forced to live on as Zero in a world that Lelouch desired and created and not one he desired or created.

Actually, on the other hand, the way that Lelouch actually ended up achieving his goals was through internally taking over the Britannian system and drawing the world's hatred onto himself. So it was Lelouch who admitted he was wrong. In choosing to "become evil to defeat evil", Lelouch committed such horrendous atrocities that eventually he himself was forced to recognize the wrongness of his actions and attempt to redeem himself by sacrificing his life for the greater good.

By agreeing to be killed by Suzaku and clear the name of Euphie, Lelouch validated everything about Suzaku's position that Lelouch was wrong. Thus Lelouch being forced to die to create the peaceful world that Suzaku wanted shows that Suzaku "won" after all.

[Destined_Fate]

That still doesn't change that Lelouch used outside means to achieve his goals and used Geass to establish his power base after his heel turn. Without Geass or Zero than nothing would have changed, thus Suzaku putting the mask of Zero means that the world needs Zero for the foreseeable future.

Euphie wasn't validated, as far as the rest of the world knows she's still the one that ordered that tragedy. Besides, not like the public would believe in the Geass business anyway.

The world Suzaku wanted was one where he changed everything from the inside, not what Lelouch did where he didn't bother working for change he forced it(which is not what Suzaku wanted). Instead he failed at that and was forced to join with Lelouch to force a coup and than garner the worlds hatreds based on a lie.

Lelouch only allowed himself to die because of the guilt of what he had to do and to sell his plan so that the world could move on and Nunnally could live in a world she was trying to create. It had nothing to do about letting Suzaku win because everything that happened was what Lelouch had planned, Suzaku was just there for the ride.

[mystogan]

as far as i remember Suzaku and Lelouch both came to the decision that we saw at the end, none of them was forced into doing it, it was a necessary step to make peace

and for the Suzaku vs Kallen , neither of them was able to kill each other and both destroyed each others nightmare frames, that still counts for a tie, but referring from rest of the anime Suzaku is more persistent fighter, because he is seen fighting more than one powerful nightmares one after the other and fighting a large no. of ordinary nightmare frames all by himself, one more than one occasion

so even if the fight between them was a tie, Suzaku is overall a better warrior