AnimeSuki Forums

Ivyna J. Spyder · 2004-02-03, 07:34

Remember me? XD Figured I'd ask about it in this forum now...

Well, as a newbie fansubber, I have looked high and low for how the hell this stuff works, to no avail.

My main problem- how to get the subs on the video. So far I'm told that VirtualDub is the only program that let's you put subs on a video.

Huh? There's really nothing else? Not even programs you can pay for? I've heard that Windows Movie Maker 2 let's you put subs on, and that'd be better than nothing.

I use Subtitle Workshop to make the subs and I save them as .ssa.

Problem is, Virtual dub FREAKING SUCKS. It never does what the guides say it should. It doesn't let me compress videos to avi, even though I have the codecs, or puts on the filters.

I figured at first that in order for it to put the subs on, the video would have to be avi... So, I used a different program to convert it to avi.

It STILL doesn't work. It just tries to 'save it as an avi' and makes the file size HUGE again.

How the hell do you put the subs on an avi? Also, how can you edit an avi? (Like, cutting a specific scene from it and saving it as a new file.)

I need to know what I'm doing wrong and if there are better programs out there, even if I'd have to pay for them...

Thank you.

scotty81 · 2004-02-03, 08:32

to add subs to a video you need a filter.
you have the choice between two different ones ( they both use ssa script ):
-Subtitler by Avery Lee , which can be found here.
-TextSub by Gabest , which can be found here. EDIT I'm removing my link as it seems I'm not allowed to like to that file, anyway you can find on divx-digest.com (SCOTTY81)

Subtitler is enough if you only sub the episode, TextSub is much more efficient for karaoke and for placing subs in precise places ( like to translate a sign in the picture ).

you can find loads of explanations on how to add subs with one of those two filters here but instead of frame serving, I would advise you to use save as , remember before to choose a compression, in Video menu. I hope this will help.

PS: you can also read this, but it's in french, anyway the guide you can download is by myself, with only the pictures you shouild get it fast.

Shii · 2004-02-03, 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivyna J. Spyder

It STILL doesn't work. It just tries to 'save it as an avi' and makes the file size HUGE again.

Let me guess, you turned off guidance messages because you're so leet that you know how to use VirtualDub already?

Try the "Compression" menu item...

scotty81 · 2004-02-03, 08:42

and also, remember to check the bitrate, otherwise yo could end up with a 60Mb file instead of 180Mb wanted.

Ivyna J. Spyder · 2004-02-03, 08:59

Edit: Wait, I got something to work. I tried the subtitler filter instead and now the subtitles appear on the output screen... Not where I want them but I guess that's better than nothing. O_o

HOWEVER.

The file is ~all ready an avi~. I all ready said this. I shouldn't need to compress it again. It all ready is.

What I need to know is how to I save it with the subtitles? O_o

Lambda · 2004-02-03, 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivyna J. Spyder

The file is ~all ready an avi~. I all ready said this. I shouldn't need to compress it again. It all ready is.

The video has to be uncompressed for the subtitles to be added. That's why it needs to be compressed again.

Shii · 2004-02-03, 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivyna J. Spyder

The file is ~all ready an avi~. I all ready said this. I shouldn't need to compress it again. It all ready is.

What I need to know is how to I save it with the subtitles? O_o

So, you want to add subtitles without recompressing it?

Sounds like you want to make an MKV, not an AVI.

Cruzz · 2004-02-03, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivyna J. Spyder

Edit: Wait, I got something to work. I tried the subtitler filter instead and now the subtitles appear on the output screen... Not where I want them but I guess that's better than nothing. O_o

HOWEVER.

The file is ~all ready an avi~. I all ready said this. I shouldn't need to compress it again. It all ready is.

What I need to know is how to I save it with the subtitles? O_o

Obviously you need a quick crash course on subtitles in various formats:

Subtitles in avi files are not "soft" subs, they're hard subs. Or to put it another way, the text is embedded in the video stream as pixels, not text, and this operation obviously includes re-encoding the video.

In the other corner we have soft subtitles, which are supported by, for instance, the matroska (mkv) and ogg media (ogm) containers. With soft subs, the subtitle file is embedded into the video file and then overlayed on the video during playback. You won't need to re-encode the video with soft subs. However, you will need to save it as an ogg or a matroska file so you'll most likely want to use VirtualDubMod instead of normal Virtualdub.

Bad explanation but it should get the point across so I won't waste more of my time on it.

Oh and for the record Virtualdub(mod) does not suck, or atleast it sucks less than any other alternative currently available for it.

EtherNEZ · 2004-02-03, 18:13

Virtualdub(mod) is indeed an excellent video utility.

Ivyna J Spider : If you insist on not re-encoding it as an AVI using hardsubs, then as Ashibaka mentioned, you'll most likely want to go down the OGM or MKV road.

I believe you need the subtitles in *.SRT format (you can find many utilities to convert between subtitle formats easily enough). VirtualDubMOD can then import it as a stream which will be embeded within the container (MKV or OGM) - you use direct stream copy for the video settings in this case.

As to the timing and positioning however, you'll have to sort yourself out with suitable subtitle script editors such as Sub Station Alpha and the like.

Ivyna J. Spyder · 2004-02-03, 20:29

Oh. Oh, I see... Sorry, I misunderstood. O_o Hm.

Well okay. I'll see if I can't re-compress into an avi or something first. But... I still can't get that to work.

Can anyone ~please~ explain to me how to use Virtualdub to compress it? I have the codecs and everything, but everytime I try, well, it doesn't work. I think the guides are leaving out some crucial step or something. O_o

And I'll try out VDM too.

ChibiDusk · 2004-02-03, 20:47

Use an avi file, IT DOESNT MATTER ABOUT THE SIZE [it only has to be avi format, size is not an issue atm]

Open virtualdub
Open the video
Video->full processing mode
video->compression [xvid]or[divx]
video->filters->subtitle->choose your .ssa file
file-save as avi

There you go, was that so hard?
Thats all you have to do, get a small file, WITH SUBS.

Ivyna J. Spyder · 2004-02-03, 21:00

I have to apologize if I'm a bit snappy, it's because I have been trying to get this stuff to work for ~over a month~. I've downloaded a million programs and codecs, looked at every guide I could find, posted to three other forums... Yeah, can I see why I'm a little frustrated?

Anyway, I will see if that works...

Ivyna J. Spyder · 2004-02-03, 21:13

Okay, I did exactly whatcha said...

And... there's sound, but no video.

This is what always happens, and so far, no one has been able to tell me how to fix it. Not clearly enough anyway...

Can someone ~please~ tell me how to use the DivX codec in Virtualdub? What I'm supposed to set it to? What the heck are these 'pass' things? I've heard people say something about saving it twice but I don't know how to do that.

Sue me, I'm stupid with computers. O_o

And which is better, the textsub filter or subtitler? I can actually get the subtitler stuff to appear on the output screen, but it looks nothing like what I made in the Subtitle Workshop and it very out of sync... Meh, I guess the first order of business is getting it to work...

lavalyn · 2004-02-03, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivyna J. Spyder

Can someone ~please~ tell me how to use the DivX codec in Virtualdub? What I'm supposed to set it to? What the heck are these 'pass' things? I've heard people say something about saving it twice but I don't know how to do that.

"Two-pass encoding" is a procedure where you encode the entire clip once (pass one) to let the codec figure out which areas of the film are more complex or less complex, then encode the clip again (pass two) so that the codec (using the previous analysis) knows which areas to emphasize the bits to - more complex areas need more space after all. Thus, the first pass video is unnecessary, since the data is kept in a separate file. To save scratch space, the actual frames of the video are discarded during first pass. (This is why you're seeing no video when viewing your file. There are no frames here.)

Thus, you encode the entire thing in "Pass 1" then again in "Pass 2" making no changes to settings in between. Yes this takes a lot of time. It's to improve quality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivyna J. Spyder

And which is better, the textsub filter or subtitler? I can actually get the subtitler stuff to appear on the output screen, but it looks nothing like what I made in the Subtitle Workshop and it very out of sync... Meh, I guess the first order of business is getting it to work...

Both work, effects are easier with TextSub, they say.

Aside: have you considered looking for an understudy position as encoder? The art of encoding is one that I think should be learned in a mentor/pupil style. It's probably easier to just ask a group's encoder a whole lot of questions (assuming they're willing to answer) than to regularly post here when stuck.

Ivyna J. Spyder · 2004-02-04, 09:50

Thanks for the explanation. However, I still dunno how to do it. XD When I do what people tell me, yeah it compresses it, but there's no video, not matter what the settings are on. O_o

I mean how do you save it twice? Say I'm starting with my source file... I save it once as test.avi, for the compression I have DivX '1st pass, multipass'. And then test.avi has sound but no video. THEN what? ^_^;

And I've tried to find people who know a lot of encoding stuff to help me, but no suck luck... Why d'ya think I'm posting here? ^_^; So far it's the only place I've gotten any help...

lavalyn · 2004-02-04, 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivyna J. Spyder

I mean how do you save it twice? Say I'm starting with my source file... I save it once as test.avi, for the compression I have DivX '1st pass, multipass'. And then test.avi has sound but no video. THEN what? ^_^;

test.avi should not have any video - that's all been discarded, as stated before.

Now save the ORIGINAL file, re-encoded using the setting "2nd pass" (or n-th pass, whatever, I don't use DivX), everything else the same. Name it something else :-)

Example: I want to encode foo.avi. Then I set the compression to DivX, first pass, save the AVI to test.avi. I set the compression to DivX, second pass, save the AVI to final.avi.

Ivyna J. Spyder · 2004-02-04, 17:13

Ah HA! Now it worked! Quality is sucky but the source wasn't too good, I can fix that.

THANK YOU. It's these basic things that get me...

Hm. Textsub doesn't seem to want to work, unfortunately. <_< Subtitler does, but the subs look nothing like what I made in Subtitle Worshop (.ssa files) and they're below the screen instead of on it...

Well, on to the the refining part then. ^_^;

scotty81 · 2004-02-05, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivyna J. Spyder

Ah HA! Now it worked! Quality is sucky but the source wasn't too good, I can fix that.

THANK YOU. It's these basic things that get me...

Hm. Textsub doesn't seem to want to work, unfortunately. <_< Subtitler does, but the subs look nothing like what I made in Subtitle Worshop (.ssa files) and they're below the screen instead of on it...

Well, on to the the refining part then. ^_^;

TextSub is a little harder to figure out at the beginnig, I use it only for the Karaoke, banner effect and to position a sign post translation on the screen.
Subtitler is enough for translation subs.
to have a good quality , about the same as the raw, choose if possible a raw larger than the size you want at end, f.e choose a 220Mb raw for a 180 Mb output file with subs.
then remember to set the bitrate in the codecs properties ( that's where you do it with divx anyway ) for that you can use a bitrate calculator, it's easy to find on google.

if your raw is interleaved ( is that how you say it in english ?? I mean vertical lines on the video. ) you could also think of deinterleaving it. you can find filters that do that.
All this is only on avi.
If I have time, I have a lot of work going on in Uni, I try to make a pic full explanation for you.
good luck,
Scotty81

Ivyna J. Spyder · 2004-02-06, 11:02

Oh cool thanks, that'll help me a lot. =D

Fuu, I wish I could get the subs to look at nice as I wanted to though. XD What I have so far is, well you can read em at least (I need to tweak the timing and stuff) and it'll work for now, but dang, I wanna do the fancy stuff... XD

Preferably, having the text ~on~ the screen instead of under it, and colored text! It'd be nice for each char to hace their own color as they speak. But Textsub just refuses to show up. ^_^; *kicks it*

scotty81 · 2004-02-06, 11:34

to set color to a line you use \c1&xxxxxx& to set primary color, \c3&xxxxxx& for 3rd color ( the surrounding & the shadow ). xxxxxx being a color in hexa format, use any drawing soft ( even paint ) and go in color options, select or "create " the color you want and convert it!
but a color a char is a lot of work!
I would rather do a color talking on screen / a color talki,g off screen.

2004-02-03, 07:34	Link #1
Ivyna J. Spyder Member Join Date: Jan 2004	Problems with subs and avis... Remember me? XD Figured I'd ask about it in this forum now... Well, as a newbie fansubber, I have looked high and low for how the hell this stuff works, to no avail. My main problem- how to get the subs on the video. So far I'm told that VirtualDub is the only program that let's you put subs on a video. Huh? There's really nothing else? Not even programs you can pay for? I've heard that Windows Movie Maker 2 let's you put subs on, and that'd be better than nothing. I use Subtitle Workshop to make the subs and I save them as .ssa. Problem is, Virtual dub FREAKING SUCKS. It never does what the guides say it should. It doesn't let me compress videos to avi, even though I have the codecs, or puts on the filters. I figured at first that in order for it to put the subs on, the video would have to be avi... So, I used a different program to convert it to avi. It STILL doesn't work. It just tries to 'save it as an avi' and makes the file size HUGE again. How the hell do you put the subs on an avi? Also, how can you edit an avi? (Like, cutting a specific scene from it and saving it as a new file.) I need to know what I'm doing wrong and if there are better programs out there, even if I'd have to pay for them... Thank you.

2004-02-03, 08:32	Link #2
scotty81 DSL addict Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Brest, Brittany, France Age: 42	to add subs to a video you need a filter. you have the choice between two different ones ( they both use ssa script ): -Subtitler by Avery Lee , which can be found here. -TextSub by Gabest , which can be found here. EDIT I'm removing my link as it seems I'm not allowed to like to that file, anyway you can find on divx-digest.com (SCOTTY81) Subtitler is enough if you only sub the episode, TextSub is much more efficient for karaoke and for placing subs in precise places ( like to translate a sign in the picture ). you can find loads of explanations on how to add subs with one of those two filters here but instead of frame serving, I would advise you to use save as , remember before to choose a compression, in Video menu. I hope this will help. PS: you can also read this, but it's in french, anyway the guide you can download is by myself, with only the pictures you shouild get it fast. Last edited by scotty81; 2004-02-04 at 08:00.

2004-02-03, 08:42	Link #4
scotty81 DSL addict Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Brest, Brittany, France Age: 42	and also, remember to check the bitrate, otherwise yo could end up with a 60Mb file instead of 180Mb wanted.

2004-02-03, 08:59	Link #5
Ivyna J. Spyder Member Join Date: Jan 2004	Edit: Wait, I got something to work. I tried the subtitler filter instead and now the subtitles appear on the output screen... Not where I want them but I guess that's better than nothing. O_o HOWEVER. The file is ~all ready an avi~. I all ready said this. I shouldn't need to compress it again. It all ready is. What I need to know is how to I save it with the subtitles? O_o

2004-02-03, 18:13	Link #9
EtherNEZ AIR is good for you Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: UK Age: 46	Virtualdub(mod) is indeed an excellent video utility. Ivyna J Spider : If you insist on not re-encoding it as an AVI using hardsubs, then as Ashibaka mentioned, you'll most likely want to go down the OGM or MKV road. I believe you need the subtitles in *.SRT format (you can find many utilities to convert between subtitle formats easily enough). VirtualDubMOD can then import it as a stream which will be embeded within the container (MKV or OGM) - you use direct stream copy for the video settings in this case. As to the timing and positioning however, you'll have to sort yourself out with suitable subtitle script editors such as Sub Station Alpha and the like.

2004-02-03, 20:29	Link #10
Ivyna J. Spyder Member Join Date: Jan 2004	Oh. Oh, I see... Sorry, I misunderstood. O_o Hm. Well okay. I'll see if I can't re-compress into an avi or something first. But... I still can't get that to work. Can anyone ~please~ explain to me how to use Virtualdub to compress it? I have the codecs and everything, but everytime I try, well, it doesn't work. I think the guides are leaving out some crucial step or something. O_o And I'll try out VDM too.

2004-02-03, 20:47	Link #11
ChibiDusk Back From The Dead? Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada Age: 34	Use an avi file, IT DOESNT MATTER ABOUT THE SIZE [it only has to be avi format, size is not an issue atm] Open virtualdub Open the video Video->full processing mode video->compression [xvid]or[divx] video->filters->subtitle->choose your .ssa file file-save as avi There you go, was that so hard? Thats all you have to do, get a small file, WITH SUBS.

2004-02-03, 21:00	Link #12
Ivyna J. Spyder Member Join Date: Jan 2004	I have to apologize if I'm a bit snappy, it's because I have been trying to get this stuff to work for ~over a month~. I've downloaded a million programs and codecs, looked at every guide I could find, posted to three other forums... Yeah, can I see why I'm a little frustrated? Anyway, I will see if that works...

2004-02-03, 21:13	Link #13
Ivyna J. Spyder Member Join Date: Jan 2004	Okay, I did exactly whatcha said... And... there's sound, but no video. This is what always happens, and so far, no one has been able to tell me how to fix it. Not clearly enough anyway... Can someone ~please~ tell me how to use the DivX codec in Virtualdub? What I'm supposed to set it to? What the heck are these 'pass' things? I've heard people say something about saving it twice but I don't know how to do that. Sue me, I'm stupid with computers. O_o And which is better, the textsub filter or subtitler? I can actually get the subtitler stuff to appear on the output screen, but it looks nothing like what I made in the Subtitle Workshop and it very out of sync... Meh, I guess the first order of business is getting it to work...

2004-02-04, 09:50	Link #15
Ivyna J. Spyder Member Join Date: Jan 2004	Thanks for the explanation. However, I still dunno how to do it. XD When I do what people tell me, yeah it compresses it, but there's no video, not matter what the settings are on. O_o I mean how do you save it twice? Say I'm starting with my source file... I save it once as test.avi, for the compression I have DivX '1st pass, multipass'. And then test.avi has sound but no video. THEN what? ^_^; And I've tried to find people who know a lot of encoding stuff to help me, but no suck luck... Why d'ya think I'm posting here? ^_^; So far it's the only place I've gotten any help...

2004-02-04, 17:13	Link #17
Ivyna J. Spyder Member Join Date: Jan 2004	Ah HA! Now it worked! Quality is sucky but the source wasn't too good, I can fix that. THANK YOU. It's these basic things that get me... Hm. Textsub doesn't seem to want to work, unfortunately. <_< Subtitler does, but the subs look nothing like what I made in Subtitle Worshop (.ssa files) and they're below the screen instead of on it... Well, on to the the refining part then. ^_^;

2004-02-06, 11:02	Link #19
Ivyna J. Spyder Member Join Date: Jan 2004	Oh cool thanks, that'll help me a lot. =D Fuu, I wish I could get the subs to look at nice as I wanted to though. XD What I have so far is, well you can read em at least (I need to tweak the timing and stuff) and it'll work for now, but dang, I wanna do the fancy stuff... XD Preferably, having the text ~on~ the screen instead of under it, and colored text! It'd be nice for each char to hace their own color as they speak. But Textsub just refuses to show up. ^_^; kicks it

2004-02-06, 11:34	Link #20
scotty81 DSL addict Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Brest, Brittany, France Age: 42	to set color to a line you use \c1&xxxxxx& to set primary color, \c3&xxxxxx& for 3rd color ( the surrounding & the shadow ). xxxxxx being a color in hexa format, use any drawing soft ( even paint ) and go in color options, select or "create " the color you want and convert it! but a color a char is a lot of work! I would rather do a color talking on screen / a color talki,g off screen.