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Old 2017-08-13, 01:51   Link #61
The Green One
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
You base this on... what?

I am seriously, what are you getting your idea from? Do you have any reason to believe this other than trying to deny the truth?
You can ask yourself that exact question. If you're going to claim this then let's see some proof if you're so sure.
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Old 2017-08-13, 02:19   Link #62
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by The Green One View Post
You can ask yourself that exact question. If you're going to claim this then let's see some proof if you're so sure.
My proof is that people voted for someone to represent them.

What is your proof that the majority who voted for him, don't support what he stood for?
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Old 2017-08-13, 02:36   Link #63
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Vallen, you've got to learn to differentiate between the people who voted for Trump and the people who still support him now.
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Old 2017-08-13, 03:44   Link #64
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by OH&S View Post
^
Vallen, you've got to learn to differentiate between the people who voted for Trump and the people who still support him now.
... Why? Especially on that topic. He didn't suddenly become racist after getting elected. If anything, the people who voted for him have grounds to be disappointed because he's incompetently racist. (Though I wouldn't get on his case for that. I won't say he's doing his very best, but he's clearly giving it a good effort.)
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Old 2017-08-13, 04:04   Link #65
The Green One
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The man has no idea what he's doing. He's erratic, a hypocrite, and will freely turn on anyone in his party who disagrees with him at all and does not succeed in advancing his agenda immediately, regardless if doing so is actually feasible or not. The person can be a random Republican or a long standing ally and supporter, it makes no difference to him. In his mind you're either with him or you're against him. There's no in between. His so called "good effort" is not contributing anything meaningful for the country and has actually regressed on many things, he spends most of his time being an Internet troll on Twitter for God's sake. He's also made us into an International laughingstock with his behavior.
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Old 2017-08-13, 04:05   Link #66
Ithekro
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Why would anyone assume all of Trump's voters are racists? That's about half the voting population (nearly 63 million people voted for Trump). The majority of his voters are mainly just conservatives who don't care for how the Democrats policies effect the country. Be it socially, economically, politically, environmentally, or globally.
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Old 2017-08-13, 05:28   Link #67
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by The Green One View Post
The man has no idea what he's doing. He's erratic, a hypocrite, and will freely turn on anyone in his party who disagrees with him at all and does not succeed in advancing his agenda immediately, regardless if doing so is actually feasible or not. The person can be a random Republican or a long standing ally and supporter, it makes no difference to him. In his mind you're either with him or you're against him. There's no in between. His so called "good effort" is not contributing anything meaningful for the country and has actually regressed on many things, he spends most of his time being an Internet troll on Twitter for God's sake. He's also made us into an International laughingstock with his behavior.
I meant "good effort at being racist", not "good effort at being POTUS".
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Old 2017-08-13, 07:15   Link #68
Applehell
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Why would anyone assume all of Trump's voters are racists? That's about half the voting population (nearly 63 million people voted for Trump). The majority of his voters are mainly just conservatives who don't care for how the Democrats policies effect the country. Be it socially, economically, politically, environmentally, or globally.
Yes they are. We aren't talking about fair weather independents who could drop him at hat here (and are doing so as we speak), but the teabaggers and birther types who saw him as their man. Only a portion of that number are his core, the rest are just idiots who thought an out of touch 70 year old snake oil salesman, who had 6 bankruptcies, has a fake university, misogynist views, ties to the mob, couldn't even get loans from US banks and a whole host of documented shady shit could ever be a leader or help in any of those issues. Even Repubs brought up this things during the primary until they decided it was okay all of a sudden. This is kind of thing they wrought when decided that instead of changing their polices to attract the majority of U.S. to their platform, they ran further right and made their bed with the fringe elements to escape marginalization by demographics. Now they are "Whoops! S-sorry um guys"

As Obama rightfully said: "elections have consequences", all those Dems who decided to stay home and independents who thought Trumps wasn't serious in what he said or was enabling, must not forgot what happened these last 6 months and what might happen in the future. When you take of granted the freedoms you have and norms the country fought for because you minute disagreements with somebody and pretend that "evil" doesn't actually exist. Your life gets put in jeopardy. You been hold those thoughts when 2018 and 2020 comes around remember why voting matters. It's not about just what you want.
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Old 2017-08-13, 10:00   Link #69
GDB
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
All the fucking assclowns who advocated "punching nazis" finally got their wish granted by a jackass genie. They kicked the hornet's nest and the hornets are fucking angry.
Yeah, wanting to punch people who spout hate speech is totally a fucking assclown thing, but running over peaceful protesters and murdering them is totally cool because they wanted people to stop hating people for not being white.

Because they're just "angry" and got "provoked".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
We have a president actively going out of his way to not hurt the feelings of white supremacists and neo nazi groups because he understands that a part of his most fervent base is made up of these individuals.
And yet somehow this isn't seen as "snowflake" or PC behavior. He refuses to even call them white supremacists, neo-nazis, or terrorists. One of the biggest shouters of "Why won't he use the term 'Radical Islamic Terrorists'?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by OH&S View Post
^
Vallen, you've got to learn to differentiate between the people who voted for Trump and the people who still support him now.
His behavior and what he supports hasn't changed. Anyone who voted for him and expected something else are fools, because this is exactly what they voted for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Why would anyone assume all of Trump's voters are racists? That's about half the voting population (nearly 63 million people voted for Trump). The majority of his voters are mainly just conservatives who don't care for how the Democrats policies effect the country. Be it socially, economically, politically, environmentally, or globally.
They could have voted Third Party. Or voted in the primaries, which many fail to do. What they said by voting for him is that they'd rather have a bigoted fascist in the White House than Hillary. So that responsibility is still on them.

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Originally Posted by Applehell View Post
Yes they are. We aren't talking about fair weather independents who could drop him at hat here (and are doing so as we speak), but the teabaggers and birther types who saw him as their man.
I'm still counting them. You don't get to vote for someone (the only action that actually counts here) who is openly racist and fascist, and then pretend you didn't know he was a racist and fascist once he gets into power. Them "dropping him now" doesn't change his level of power and it doesn't change that they put him into power.
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Old 2017-08-13, 10:12   Link #70
shadow1296
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Yeah, wanting to punch people who spout hate speech is totally a fucking assclown thing, but running over peaceful protesters and murdering them is totally cool because they wanted people to stop hating people for not being white.

Because they're just "angry" and got "provoked".
Okay I've been staying mostly out of it but this is a straight up lie niether side was peaceful that day did you actually watch the footage there were fights started by both camps happening it's just one side took it way too far, and honestly I'm surprised that something worse didn't happen because what happened was already terrible but tensions were so high that this could have easily been worse
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Old 2017-08-13, 10:21   Link #71
Eisdrache
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Originally Posted by Toukairin View Post
As far as I'm concerned, I strongly believe Neo-Nazis should be hunted down like the very same dogs they worship were mercilessly hunted down after the war. That would be a step further than just telling them to shove their ideology where the sun doesn't shine.
Yes because when they go low, we lower ourselves to their level and do exactly the same as they would have done, just in the other direction.
This idiotic mindset is one of the reasons why conflicts (of whatever sort) will keep going instead of being solved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
My proof is that people voted for someone to represent them.
So everyone who voted for Trump because they hoped to send a sign against the swamp in Washington is racist because they voted Trump? You will need a better thought out argument than that. It's true that they conveniently closed their eyes about Trump's many shortcomings but that doesn't automatically make them racist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
His behavior and what he supports hasn't changed. Anyone who voted for him and expected something else are fools, because this is exactly what they voted for.

They could have voted Third Party. Or voted in the primaries, which many fail to do. What they said by voting for him is that they'd rather have a bigoted fascist in the White House than Hillary. So that responsibility is still on them.
While it's technically not wrong what you're saying, being a fool doesn't equal to being racist.

Last edited by Eisdrache; 2017-08-13 at 10:46.
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Old 2017-08-13, 11:07   Link #72
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
So everyone who voted for Trump because they hoped to send a sign against the swamp in Washington is racist because they voted Trump? You will need a better thought out argument than that. It's true that they conveniently closed their eyes about Trump's many shortcomings but that doesn't automatically make them racist.
"They're not racist, they just thought normal politicians were too honest and principled"? (Not to mention hard working, well-informed, altruistic and so on...)
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Old 2017-08-13, 11:10   Link #73
Slayerx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
My proof is that people voted for someone to represent them.

What is your proof that the majority who voted for him, don't support what he stood for?
Well there's the reality of america's hopeless broken electoral system. Between our first past the post voting system, allowing parties to completely control the primary process, our undemocratic electoral vote system, our winner take all system for dividing up those vote among states, and rewarding victory based on plurality rather than true majority, we have made it impossible to win as a third party win the presidency. We have trapped ourselves in a two party system that encourages voting for the lesser of two evils instead of voting for who you truly think is best for the job. Seriously, the US has got to have one of the worst democratic systems for electing a president

Anyone who opposed Clinton had only one REAL choice; Trump. To vote third party or to abstain would not have been a vote for clinton, but it wouldn't help defeat her either. Ergo, if she won, then conservative abstainers would end up taking the blame for not working to defeat her kind of like how liberal abstainers are taking heat for not supporting clinton to defeat Trump. As a result one does not need to actually support trump to vote for him as their vote could just be a vote in opposition to clinton. Heck we saw this in the last election aswell where there were many Romney voters who didn't actually support romney, but just voted for him to oppose Obama. And if a conservative cared about the supreme court, then making sure a republican ended up in the white house was an absolute must since the election of a democrat would result in the supreme court leaning to the left

We must also consider that "support" is conditional. At anytime a supporter can withdraw their support. There are plenty of voters already who have regrets about voting Trump. So many people who wrote off Trump's toxic rhetoric as "jokes" or "politics", or people that believed he did not actually mean the things he said, or people annoyed at him filling the swamp instead of draining it, or people who thought he would "start acting presidential" after he won, or people realizing he's just plain terrible at the job that he knows nothing about

So no, it would not be fair to call all Trump voters racists. Though you could probably make a good argument for incompetence and ignorance in that they would think Trump would be better than Clinton, did not actually believe most of the terrible things that were being said about Trump, or did not realize just how damaging his toxic rhetoric would be to society. But there is a big difference between being a racist and being stupid
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Old 2017-08-13, 11:15   Link #74
Anh_Minh
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Yes, a racist can change his mind.
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Old 2017-08-13, 11:40   Link #75
GDB
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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
We must also consider that "support" is conditional. At anytime a supporter can withdraw their support. There are plenty of voters already who have regrets about voting Trump. So many people who wrote off Trump's toxic rhetoric as "jokes" or "politics", or people that believed he did not actually mean the things he said, or people annoyed at him filling the swamp instead of draining it, or people who thought he would "start acting presidential" after he won, or people realizing he's just plain terrible at the job that he knows nothing about
Doesn't matter. Them withdrawing their support does not remove Trump from office, nor does it undo the damage he's done.

Quote:
But there is a big difference between being a racist and being stupid
They still supported an open racist. So at best, they support a racist but aren't necessarily racist themselves. And when your support puts said racist into the highest seat of power in the country... well...
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Old 2017-08-13, 11:57   Link #76
Applehell
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
I'm still counting them. You don't get to vote for someone (the only action that actually counts here) who is openly racist and fascist, and then pretend you didn't know he was a racist and fascist once he gets into power. Them "dropping him now" doesn't change his level of power and it doesn't change that they put him into power.
While there is very little excuse for it least they are regretting it now, and remembering 70 years wasn't that long nor was the Civil War in history of the country. So it's a start.

Moreover you can say what you want about Hilary or Bernie, but they were at least humane competent even if you don't agree with their every position. That alone should have put them over Trump.
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Old 2017-08-13, 13:55   Link #77
Toukairin
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Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
Yes because when they go low, we lower ourselves to their level and do exactly the same as they would have done, just in the other direction.
This idiotic mindset is one of the reasons why conflicts (of whatever sort) will keep going instead of being solved.
I'm sorry, but are you saying that you are against all actions taken against Nazis after the war, even if those actions took place against runaways in the 1960s? There is a reason why they were hunted down, and the hunt should never stop as long as there are people openly worshipping such crap that disrespects other humans.
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Old 2017-08-13, 13:56   Link #78
kanoguti
 
 
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Originally Posted by Toukairin View Post
I'm sorry, but are you saying that you are against all actions taken against Nazis after the war, even if those actions took place against runaways in the 1960s? There is a reason why they were hunted down, and the hunt should never stop as long as there are people openly worshipping such crap that disrespects other humans.
Chillax bro. As long as they don't hurt anyone I think it's all good.
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Old 2017-08-13, 14:07   Link #79
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by kanoguti View Post
Chillax bro. As long as they don't hurt anyone I think it's all good.
What do you think it means to be a Nazi anyway? Because "being a Nazi" and "don't hurt anyone" is not compatible.
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Old 2017-08-13, 14:11   Link #80
kanoguti
 
 
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
What do you think it means to be a Nazi anyway? Because "being a Nazi" and "don't hurt anyone" is not compatible.
Nah there are people who are nazi but they don't hurt people. not that i agree with the4m, or even listen to them, but to say we should hunt them down is pretty extreme.
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