US Elections 2008

[Cherudim Arche]

Originally Posted by Aya Reiko

McCain's Oh Crap moment:

That was amusing, I would at least think McCain would retain that information from the last debate.

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

That's Joe the Plumber, not Bob. That's disrespectful to all the Joe the Plumbers out there who make $250k and want to own a small business but are scared that they might not be able to keep all the Bush tax cuts that were designed purely for the very wealthy while the economy falls apart around them. Yes, all three Joe the Plumbers out there that McCain seems convinced are going to create enough jobs to save the US economy.

I believe that Joe the Plumber is bashing his head on a brick wall right now after he was hearing about McCain's Tax Plan and McCain's Health Care Plan.
But it makes me wonder, who is giving this advice to McCain about these crazy plans of his?

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by mg1942

Let's see what FOX news says...

I loved the part where Hume asked if they were for McCain or undecided and the guy tried to claim there were 23 undecided voters after the one guy said "We....we lost it a little bit and Obama hung in there". Who's "we"? The McCain campaign I can only assume. And then there's this:

"No, Brit, I chewed them out to make sure they were undecided and"
Hume: "No, I don't doubt you for a moment!"
"Did anyone switch your position? Did anyone switch your position tonight?"

How could anyone switch positions if they were undecided? Quickest about face ever. It's like they aren't even trying anymore.

[mg1942]

Kaoshin sama, I was gonna post something like that after my video post (to avoid clutter)

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

"No, Brit, I chewed them out to make sure they were undecided and"
Hume: "No, I don't doubt you for a moment!"
"Did anyone switch your position? Did anyone switch your position tonight?"

How could anyone switch positions if they were undecided? Quickest about face ever. It's like they aren't even trying anymore.

They "switched" from undecided to decided. It was just poorly worded.

[Neki Ecko]

Now here is the real question (to those who support McCain)

So if you were McCain, what would do for the next 19 days, you are losing in every poll, CNN has changed Virginia from toss-up to Leaning Obama that means he would pass the magic number 270 for POTUS, you are losing in all of the remaining battleground states except NC and Indiana and losing alot more ground in red states like WV, GA and AR, your party is about to get trump with senate seats (60+). So if you were McCain, what would you do?
Be serious about this.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Neki Ecko

Now here is the real question (to those who support McCain)

So if you were McCain, what would do for the next 19 days, you are losing in every poll, CNN has changed Virginia from toss-up to Leaning Obama that means he would pass the magic number 270 for POTUS, you are losing in all of the remaining battleground states except NC and Indiana and losing alot more ground in red states like WV, GA and AR, your party is about to get trump with senate seats (60+). So if you were McCain, what would you do?
Be serious about this.

Here are two possible extreme roads McCain can take:

On one hand, you can follow everything that Karl Rove says. Gore was in a similar position to Obama 8 years ago (significantly large lead, with a solid support base), but Bush, in following Karl Rove's advice, was able to battle and fight so that the lead vanished right before the election. So, if McCain listens extensively to Karl Rove, he could still potentially win this election (it would be far harder for McCain to win, than it was for Bush to win).

Or, he can take the opposite route, he could denounce what he has been doing thus far, come clean of all his "illicit" activities as of late (accusing Obama of terrorist relationships, etc), and seek the "redemption" vote that greatly aided Bush in his gubernatorial and presidential elections. Once he has done this, McCain can then reclaim his popularity from 8 years ago, and set out to clearly and concisely explain how to fix America. He will start off with a huge deficit, but he might be able to reclaim the points within the 3 week period (especially if he is able to gain a significant following amongst Conservative Democrats and Independents).

[FLCL]

im absolutely sick to my stomach with the media's love of obama is it ludicrous, the ammount of bias is getting way past the acceptable levels, and this isnt even at established left wing publications but even on things such as yahoo. I'm a registered independent, but i think im going to vote against obama on principle, the media is practically handing this to him on a silver platter. 3 articles i've read are all portraying obama as the poor underdog and racial victim where as mccain is the attacking angry conservative...i watched the debate it wasnt so "black and white"

I agree with both politicians on certain aspects, mccain on foreign policy/economy and obama with domestic policy, but this is just gross, where the media's bias is entering the fidel/stalin/hitler/che level of love its appalling.

@ neko: honestly its lost for mccain, the real brightside? no way in heck do i see obama getting re-elected in 4 years. hillary has seen it, the republicans have, by then the populist movement behind him will crumble after an ineffective 4 years. Thats the brightside for you republicans/hillary supporters out there...honestly that was the real motive for hillary to stick with the race after it had been lost.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

That's Joe the Plumber, not Bob. That's disrespectful to all the Joe the Plumbers out there who make $250k and want to own a small business but are scared that they might not be able to keep all the Bush tax cuts that were designed purely for the very wealthy while the economy falls apart around them. Yes, all three Joe the Plumbers out there that McCain seems convinced are going to create enough jobs to save the US economy.

Joe the Plumber has a last name - he's Joe Wurzelbacher from Ohio.

Originally Posted by bayoab

CNN definitely has a slight bias toward the democrats. The problem is that normal bias doesn't fit the story they are currently trying to sell as "news". They are bitter that Obama is the nominee* and they are very upset that he is running away with this race. They are trying to make this out to be a neck and neck race when that isn't even close to the truth.

Ah, thanks. That helps to clarify what I saw and heard last night.

Still, it's disturbing to find so much editorialising in what's supposed to be hard news. If CNN is considered "mild" in this respect (and I've seen what Fox delivers, by comparison), then it makes me wonder how much of the news I hear coming out from the US is really news. So much spin, where's the information?

Originally Posted by james0246

As an aside, political debates are not based on "fact" or "figures", but rather pure rhetoric and disposition. Because of that, the ability to attack and defend points, even if the specific points be legitimate or not, is more important than the actual points being made. Famously, this is seen in the Nixon v. Kennedy debate, in which Nixon "won" the debates in terms of arguing the points, but Kennedy won the debates because of image and rhetoric (this is a simplistic representation of this historic debate).

And I wonder who is more at fault for that trend - the average American or the spin-crazy media?

Should media have that much power to shape opinions? I'm uncomfortable with what I see on American TV, despite my support for freedom of expression.

Debates of this nature ought to be more about the issues, rather than the presentation. If anything, I think the average Joe the Plumber (hey, he's the man of the moment, might as well continue using him as an example) should be given more credit. Given the relatively large amount on misinformation on the airwaves, it seems to me that Joe needs to expend a lot more personal initiative to sieve the fact from fat.

So, by that anecdotal measure alone, the average American is already more intelligent than the average Singaporean I know.

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by FLCL

im absolutely sick to my stomach with the media's love of obama is it ludicrous, the ammount of bias is getting way past the acceptable levels, and this isnt even at established left wing publications but even on things such as yahoo. I'm a registered independent, but i think im going to vote against obama on principle, the media is practically handing this to him on a silver platter. 3 articles i've read are all portraying obama as the poor underdog and racial victim where as mccain is the attacking angry conservative...i watched the debate it wasnt so "black and white"

I agree with both politicians on certain aspects, mccain on foreign policy/economy and obama with domestic policy, but this is just gross, where the media's bias is entering the fidel/stalin/hitler/che level of love its appalling.

@ neko: honestly its lost for mccain, the real brightside? no way in heck do i see obama getting re-elected in 4 years. hillary has seen it, the republicans have, by then the populist movement behind him will crumble after an ineffective 4 years. Thats the brightside for you republicans/hillary supporters out there...honestly that was the real motive for hillary to stick with the race after it had been lost.

Well, the reason why Obama won that debate isnt because what he say but what he didnt say or bait into McCain traps (Palin, Ayers, Lewis and Others). He has a big lead right now and may get better after this debate and he has leads in 3/4 of the battleground unless McCain pulls a miracle, McCain wont win it. This was a boxing match, Obama won the match but his job was not to get knockout in the last round by McCain and he did his job and that is the reason he won and McCain was getting really upset at Obama, while Obama stay calm the whole time.

**Edit** Even FOX News said that Obama won the Debate and that means something or they was pwned by Obama

[yezhanquan]

Just for info: When someone is branded a "liberal" in the US, what does it mean exactly? I remember hearing about the meaning of the word being distorted in US politics.

@FLCL: Whoever wins this election will either crumble under the pressure of cleaning the mess up, or roll up his sleeve and at least do a decent job.

[Anh_Minh]

It means he's a lefty. (Socially liberal.) For homosexual rights, abortion, that sort of thing.

In Europe, it means he's a righty. (Economically liberal.) For deregulation, free market and all that.

[cors8]

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Republ...Zsha09SbsDW7oF

I just find this photo hilarious.

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It means he's a lefty. (Socially liberal.) For homosexual rights, abortion, that sort of thing.

In Europe, it means he's a righty. (Economically liberal.) For deregulation, free market and all that.

So, if I'm a social conservative and an economic liberal, what does that make me?

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

So, if I'm a social conservative and an economic liberal, what does that make me?

Adaptable?

[cors8]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

So, if I'm a social conservative and an economic liberal, what does that make me?

A heathen.

I guess that makes you an average citizen.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

So, if I'm a social conservative and an economic liberal, what does that make me?

In the US? A Republican?

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

So, if I'm a social conservative and an economic liberal, what does that make me?

That makes you a Populist. If you were socially liberal and economically conservative you'd be along the lines of a libertarian.

[yezhanquan]

Well, I guess my little exercise showed the limitations of labels.

Socially, I lean towards pro-choice, and I have little objections to same-sex marriages. So, I'm liberal.

Economically, while I favour free markets, I do want to see a degree of control by the government.

[wingdarkness]

Wait for it…………………………


Now Flush!!!!!!


It turns out that “Joe the Plumber” (You know the guy McCain basically capsulated his whole debate around mentioning him atleast 20 times in the debate according to most reports may have been a plant, and that he may be related to a former McCain contributor, Keating from the infamous Keating 5 scandal of the late 80’s where McCain engaged in nefarious activity with a former banker)…

The lengths these guys will go sheeeesh (*shakes head*)…If it’s true then just add another log to the republican’s “win by fire” techniques…Now it all makes sense why McCain would go on a super-tangent over some obscure reference by a plumber at an Obama rally…Desperate much?