AnimeSuki Forums

Rising Dragon · 2012-07-18, 23:25

'course, once Einhart figured out her trick, it was simple enough for Einhart to turn golem!Corona into rubble!Corona, so to speak.

Akiyoshi · 2012-07-18, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

'course, once Einhart figured out her trick, it was simple enough for Einhart to turn golem!Corona into rubble!Corona, so to speak.

And thus became Einhart "Golem Trasher" Stratos xD

Justin_Brett · 2012-07-19, 00:38

Well that's because it didn't actually help her reach any, and not having that is kind of a problem when punching someone is your trump card.

LostSome · 2012-07-22, 14:38

Random observation... Vivid is seriously lacking in staff-users.
I was under the impression that staves were used by most mages of Mid.

Justin_Brett · 2012-07-22, 14:55

It has the witch girl.

And most mages in Mid are grunts, and thus not main characters in a loli manga.

Kaijo · 2012-07-22, 15:01

Vivid is Tsuzuki's attempt to broaden the magical world he's created(and appeal to the loli crowd). It does kinda go against what we've heard so far... especially since practically everyone in the tournament is much, MUCH stronger than the staff and spear wielders that make up most of the Bureau. Hell, Jail should have recruited them instead of making his own cyborgs, heh.

But yeah, Vivid has its problems. In his zeal to create a variety loli slap fest, he's retconning the universe a bit.

Justin_Brett · 2012-07-22, 16:02

And then after Vivid and Force, he goes and does world building better - in the show that's MXC starring cat and dog people. Weird as hell.

LostSome · 2012-07-22, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

It has the witch girl.

A broom isn`t exactly a staff...

I didn`t know that handcuffs and chains were "loli" material... My bad.

I try not to think of the power levels...
Just the lack of Nanoha`s favorite is a bit sad.

Keroko · 2012-07-22, 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Vivid is Tsuzuki's attempt to broaden the magical world he's created(and appeal to the loli crowd). It does kinda go against what we've heard so far... especially since practically everyone in the tournament is much, MUCH stronger than the staff and spear wielders that make up most of the Bureau. Hell, Jail should have recruited them instead of making his own cyborgs, heh.

But yeah, Vivid has its problems. In his zeal to create a variety loli slap fest, he's retconning the universe a bit.

A minor diversion, really, and not even that much of a diversion at that. Since this is the most well known martial arts tournament. It makes sense for it to attract the highest power the age category has to offer.

Second, unlike the bureau where the high power is spread across a variety of worlds, on a tournament such power would gather. Concentration versus dispersion. Put every single powerful mage in the entirety of the TSAB in one spot, and you're likely to get a much higher number than the tournament.

And lastly, not everyone in the tournament is super-powerful by default. Sure, the people that have names stand high above everyone else, but what about the nameless contestants that were being one-shot by said named characters left and right? Were they above the rank-and-file staff and spear wielder?

Kaijo · 2012-07-22, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

A minor diversion, really, and not even that much of a diversion at that. Since this is the most well known martial arts tournament. It makes sense for it to attract the highest power the age category has to offer.

Second, unlike the bureau where the high power is spread across a variety of worlds, on a tournament such power would gather. Concentration versus dispersion. Put every single powerful mage in the entirety of the TSAB in one spot, and you're likely to get a much higher number than the tournament.

And lastly, not everyone in the tournament is super-powerful by default. Sure, the people that have names stand high above everyone else, but what about the nameless contestants that were being one-shot by said named characters left and right? Were they above the rank-and-file staff and spear wielder?

I'll grant that your points have merit. I'll admit that there is a bit of a bias here (even though the best and brightest seem to be all women).

But also keep in mind... this is just one tournament on one section of one world. Apparently, there are tournaments happening in several sections of many worlds, each of whom seem to have the same power levels. So that "distribution" of the Bureau isn't that different from the distribution of high-powered tournament entries.

Kinda makes you wonder why Chrono and Amy were so impressed upon seeing Nanoha and Fate in action, if this tournament happens once a year or two?

Keroko · 2012-07-22, 20:42

Regardless, the TSAB people tend not to gather into one stadium that much. And even then, counting all the main characters in the bureau, we have quite a list of powerful people as well. Twelve in the first two seasons alone. StrikerS raises that even further. They're just outnumbered by the low-ranked redshirts, which in this tournament... does not seem to be much different.

As for why Chrono and Amy were surprised... well, again, because such power isn't common. Yes, this tournament has a lot, but this tournament is designed to attract the strong. Earth is a non-magic world, not exactly a place where you'd expect to find some top of the powergrid mages.

Rising Dragon · 2012-07-22, 21:27

Especially at that rank at that age, prime development period or not.

Kaijo · 2012-07-22, 22:05

Rio Wesley
Corona Timil
Harri Tribeca
Els Tasmin
Chantez Arpinion
Micaiah Chevelle
Victoria Dahlgrün
Fabia Crozelg
Sieglinde Jeremiah
Miura Rinaldi

Leaving out Vivio and Einhart, since they are special cases. Also leaving out Erio, Caro, and Lutecia.

But in this one district on one planet, we have 10 "normals" with considerable power and skill... at least far more than the rank and file demonstrated. RF6 had Nanoha, Fate, Hayate and the Wolkenritter, which Teana called a "ridiculous amount of power." While the "Aces" have more power, I'd easily class the above girls in line with the forwards, and given their young age, the potential to be Aces themselves with more training.

And this is one district on one world. Let's say it's the average, and maybe 3 districts per world(could be more, but I'm being conservative)... That's 30 people, per world, that have roughly B class power or more.

I can't quite remember if it was said how many total Aces the Bureau has, I'm remembering a "100" number... whether that is Aces, or Ace of Aces, I can't say. But if there are only 4 planets participating in this "universe" tournament, they've already outstripped the Bureau Ace numbers. Double it to 8 planets, and you've got 320 people like the Forwards, with potential to be Aces.

Numbers pulled out of my ass, but you get the idea.

And this tournament has been happening, what, yearly? With new people joining year after year? True, a lot of them are probably C and D class, which is probably more in line with Bureau Red Shirts. But when you run the possible numbers, you get a much higher number of highly skilled and powerful mages.

Rising Dragon · 2012-07-22, 22:37

There's probably more to consider, such as experience--for all of Nanoha and Fate's flash and substance, they were still bested by the weaker but more experienced Chrono. There may be other factors to consider--not everyone joins the Bureau military, I imagine, and it doesn't look to be mandatory. There's probably plenty of instances of magically-powerful mages that just aren't interested in a life of military servitude.

Keroko · 2012-07-23, 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Rio Wesley
Corona Timil
Harri Tribeca
Els Tasmin
Chantez Arpinion
Micaiah Chevelle
Victoria Dahlgrün
Fabia Crozelg
Sieglinde Jeremiah
Miura Rinaldi

Leaving out Vivio and Einhart, since they are special cases. Also leaving out Erio, Caro, and Lutecia.

But in this one district on one planet, we have 10 "normals" with considerable power and skill... at least far more than the rank and file demonstrated. RF6 had Nanoha, Fate, Hayate and the Wolkenritter, which Teana called a "ridiculous amount of power." While the "Aces" have more power, I'd easily class the above girls in line with the forwards, and given their young age, the potential to be Aces themselves with more training.

Not sure why you'd even mention Erio and Caro, since they are part of the bureau. But if we are making a list of powerful people, here's one of the confirmed high-rank people aligned with the TSAB we've seen:

Zest
Quint
Megane
Lindy
Chrono
Fate
Arf
Nanoha
Yuuno
Vita
Signum
Shamal
Zafira
Erio
Caro
Teana
Subaru
Aria
Lotte
Ginga
Cinque
Dieci
Nove
Wendi

That's 24 people. That we know of. On one area of Mid alone. There's bound to be more on Mid, much less on other worlds out there, hell the navy is confirmed to claim most of the powerful mages, so out there in space there's going to be even more of them. And people Clyde and Letti are just a few examples of the unknowns in the TSAB, and we haven't even touched on the Belkan controlled regions yet. So yes, I'm not really buying that "100" number here. I might buy it if an ace was a title or the other that had little to do with raw power, but more with some other special requirement. Because in terms of raw power, the TSAB has it more than the tournament.

It's just that the bureau is really, really big, and thus has thousands of other people as well, people who aren't as powerful. So the powerful people always seem to be the minority because, well, they are.

Again, the difference lies in favor of the bureau here.

Skane · 2012-07-23, 06:24

Don't forget the Drill Instructor that beat up the crap of Nanoha and Fate from the manga, and oh, the Three Admirals. Nanoha and Fate get focused on because they are the protagonists, but it has been stated multiple times that they are not "special snowflakes" (unlike Hayate who actually is). They're just the ones we happen to be following most of the time. Chrono is busy doing mundane stuff like fighting cosmic horrors while they go to the beach.

Cheers.

Demi. · 2012-07-23, 06:51

Nanoha and Fate only lost to the instructor because they were inexperienced children. Highly doubt the same would happen given StrikerS timeline. Any S+ rank mage is going to be considered special.

Skane · 2012-07-23, 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demi.

Nanoha and Fate only lost to the instructor because they were inexperienced children. Highly doubt the same would happen given StrikerS timeline. Any S+ rank mage is going to be considered special.

Which is what the Vivid kids are (well, most of them).

Cheers.

Demi. · 2012-07-23, 07:01

True, but I only saw mention of Nanoha and Fate in the post. And that's all I was commenting on.

VezSketch · 2012-07-23, 07:02

Nanoha and Fate are pretty special. KOing S+ Rank Combat Cyborgs in a hit or two after matching them in an AMF, and the entirety of Nanoha's fight against Saint Kaiser Vivio.

The Vivid kids have pretty good feats, but they're not particularly powerful outside Lutecia.

2012-07-18, 23:25	Link #2121
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	'course, once Einhart figured out her trick, it was simple enough for Einhart to turn golem!Corona into rubble!Corona, so to speak. __________________

2012-07-22, 14:38	Link #2124
LostSome Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Canada	Random observation... Vivid is seriously lacking in staff-users. I was under the impression that staves were used by most mages of Mid. __________________ Nyohohohoho ! It`s the law of the universe that only wizards die as virgins. You can`t let yourself die as a virgin, right ? -Old geezer.

2012-07-22, 21:27	Link #2132
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Especially at that rank at that age, prime development period or not. __________________

2012-07-22, 22:37	Link #2134
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	There's probably more to consider, such as experience--for all of Nanoha and Fate's flash and substance, they were still bested by the weaker but more experienced Chrono. There may be other factors to consider--not everyone joins the Bureau military, I imagine, and it doesn't look to be mandatory. There's probably plenty of instances of magically-powerful mages that just aren't interested in a life of military servitude. __________________

2012-07-23, 06:24	Link #2136
Skane Anime Snark Join Date: May 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 41	Don't forget the Drill Instructor that beat up the crap of Nanoha and Fate from the manga, and oh, the Three Admirals. Nanoha and Fate get focused on because they are the protagonists, but it has been stated multiple times that they are not "special snowflakes" (unlike Hayate who actually is). They're just the ones we happen to be following most of the time. Chrono is busy doing mundane stuff like fighting cosmic horrors while they go to the beach. Cheers. __________________ Hearthstone Battletag: Skane#1425 [Can't GIF This], [Jail's House of Rock], [Kanon In The Snow], [She Ain't Dead Yet... She's In Quantum], [She Stabs] Founder of "The Cult of Psycho-Moe", Member of "ARIA the Social Group" & the "Belkan Saint Church".

2012-07-19, 00:38	Link #2123
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Well that's because it didn't actually help her reach any, and not having that is kind of a problem when punching someone is your trump card.

2012-07-22, 14:55	Link #2125
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	It has the witch girl. And most mages in Mid are grunts, and thus not main characters in a loli manga.

2012-07-22, 15:01	Link #2126
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	Vivid is Tsuzuki's attempt to broaden the magical world he's created(and appeal to the loli crowd). It does kinda go against what we've heard so far... especially since practically everyone in the tournament is much, MUCH stronger than the staff and spear wielders that make up most of the Bureau. Hell, Jail should have recruited them instead of making his own cyborgs, heh. But yeah, Vivid has its problems. In his zeal to create a variety loli slap fest, he's retconning the universe a bit.

2012-07-22, 16:02	Link #2127
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	And then after Vivid and Force, he goes and does world building better - in the show that's MXC starring cat and dog people. Weird as hell.

2012-07-22, 20:42	Link #2131
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Regardless, the TSAB people tend not to gather into one stadium that much. And even then, counting all the main characters in the bureau, we have quite a list of powerful people as well. Twelve in the first two seasons alone. StrikerS raises that even further. They're just outnumbered by the low-ranked redshirts, which in this tournament... does not seem to be much different. As for why Chrono and Amy were surprised... well, again, because such power isn't common. Yes, this tournament has a lot, but this tournament is designed to attract the strong. Earth is a non-magic world, not exactly a place where you'd expect to find some top of the powergrid mages.

2012-07-22, 22:05	Link #2133
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	Rio Wesley Corona Timil Harri Tribeca Els Tasmin Chantez Arpinion Micaiah Chevelle Victoria Dahlgrün Fabia Crozelg Sieglinde Jeremiah Miura Rinaldi Leaving out Vivio and Einhart, since they are special cases. Also leaving out Erio, Caro, and Lutecia. But in this one district on one planet, we have 10 "normals" with considerable power and skill... at least far more than the rank and file demonstrated. RF6 had Nanoha, Fate, Hayate and the Wolkenritter, which Teana called a "ridiculous amount of power." While the "Aces" have more power, I'd easily class the above girls in line with the forwards, and given their young age, the potential to be Aces themselves with more training. And this is one district on one world. Let's say it's the average, and maybe 3 districts per world(could be more, but I'm being conservative)... That's 30 people, per world, that have roughly B class power or more. I can't quite remember if it was said how many total Aces the Bureau has, I'm remembering a "100" number... whether that is Aces, or Ace of Aces, I can't say. But if there are only 4 planets participating in this "universe" tournament, they've already outstripped the Bureau Ace numbers. Double it to 8 planets, and you've got 320 people like the Forwards, with potential to be Aces. Numbers pulled out of my ass, but you get the idea. And this tournament has been happening, what, yearly? With new people joining year after year? True, a lot of them are probably C and D class, which is probably more in line with Bureau Red Shirts. But when you run the possible numbers, you get a much higher number of highly skilled and powerful mages.

2012-07-23, 06:51	Link #2137
Demi. Ass connoisseur Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Florida Age: 37	Nanoha and Fate only lost to the instructor because they were inexperienced children. Highly doubt the same would happen given StrikerS timeline. Any S+ rank mage is going to be considered special. __________________

2012-07-23, 07:01	Link #2139
Demi. Ass connoisseur Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Florida Age: 37	True, but I only saw mention of Nanoha and Fate in the post. And that's all I was commenting on. __________________

2012-07-23, 07:02	Link #2140
VezSketch Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Age: 34	Nanoha and Fate are pretty special. KOing S+ Rank Combat Cyborgs in a hit or two after matching them in an AMF, and the entirety of Nanoha's fight against Saint Kaiser Vivio. The Vivid kids have pretty good feats, but they're not particularly powerful outside Lutecia.