Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[CapoExecutor]

Last time I checked, Blutsauger was still in the Seireiden at the end of Season 1. Shana couldn't have been holding it in her coat.


Is there some sort of theme to the colors that the three were portrayed in?

Shana in Red
Yuji in Blue
Kazumi in Yellow

Hecate at the end seems to have a bit of Konoe's behavior regarding the bird but who knows?

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by CapoExecutor

Last time I checked, Blutsauger was still in the Seireiden at the end of Season 1. Shana couldn't have been holding it in her coat.

She dosen't need too magic remember...

Is there some sort of theme to the colors that the three were portrayed in?

Shana in Red
Yuji in Blue
Kazumi in Yellow

Hecate at the end seems to have a bit of Konoe's behavior regarding the bird but who knows?

No idea...so your guess is as good as everyone else.

Anyway I'm liking the new OP but could they move the story a little faster. We've been waiting a long time for this...

[taelrak]

Originally Posted by Toreno

A very good opening. I like the song and Yuji swinging Blutsauger like this is just AWESOME!



She is such a drama queen.

Spoiler for sarcasm:

No way, showing up every 3 seconds and whining about irrelevant stuff that was resolved 3 episodes ago (and 2 episodes before that, and 3 episodes before that, and the season before that, and ...yea) is a perfectly admirable trait in any character

we need even more Hecate

[Proto]

Anyway I'm liking the new OP but could they move the story a little faster. We've been waiting a long time for this...

In fact... people have to understand that the producers have only so much novels left to work with, and unless we want an anime original ending (since the last novel is coming next month), the production studio should worry about leaving enough material for a last, 1 cour season. So I'd suggest people to mentally prepare themselves for some stretching

Anyway, I think people are starting to criticize Kazumi for the sake for it and not paying attention to what she has to say (and just classifying it into the whining department). After all Pheles only fueled her worries, gave her a roundabout solution(summoning Pheles in exchange for her life doesn't sounds like something would be willing to do at the blink of an eyey ) and furthermore she was presented for the first time to the phenomena of having one's existence erased, so I'd say this is just about enough for a normal human to be in mental turmoil (which is what Yoshida is supposed to represent, don't blame the messenger for the message )

[Tokkan]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Anyway I'm liking the new OP but could they move the story a little faster. We've been waiting a long time for this...

I love this comment, just because when you consider the past few episodes the story's actually been going faster than it should be (not that I mind), it suddenly loses meaning.

[DX HBK]

Originally Posted by CapoExecutor

Is there some sort of theme to the colors that the three were portrayed in?

Shana in Red
Yuji in Blue
Kazumi in Yellow

Might be a theme that I could try winging a guess at.

Shana has red to represent the passion and love she feels for Yuji. But it also could represent sin and sacrifice, a foreboding element on what she might have to do.

Yuji has blue to represent faith and spiritual innocence he holds despite his current predicament. While blue might also represents a desire for peace, the irony could be the methods used to achieve it.

Kazumi has yellow to represent hope but it could also represent deceit or cowardice. Might have to do something about that crucifix Hougu.

[taelrak]

Originally Posted by ProtoMan

In fact... people have to understand that the producers have only so much novels left to work with, and unless we want an anime original ending (since the last novel is coming next month), the production studio should worry about leaving enough material for a last, 1 cour season. So I'd suggest people to mentally prepare themselves for some stretching

Anyway, I think people are starting to criticize Kazumi for the sake for it and not paying attention to what she has to say (and just classifying it into the whining department). After all Pheles only fueled her worries, gave her a roundabout solution(summoning Pheles in exchange for her life doesn't sounds like something would be willing to do at the blink of an eyey ) and furthermore she was presented for the first time to the phenomena of having one's existence erased, so I'd say this is just about enough for a normal human to be in mental turmoil (which is what Yoshida is supposed to represent, don't blame the messenger for the message )

Isn't it because she doesn't say anything really useful, profound or novel that people get tired of her little monologues?

I mean...the whole concept of having one's existence erased isn't really grounds for mental turmoil...she has been through several experiences where the threat of death and the concept of one's own mortality has turned up, and she knows fully well about the concept of existence from seeing it with her own eyes. If she didn't understand the implications, it's only because of her own naivette and refusal to face the truth, much as Sakai refused to do so in the first season (which I also felt was painfully stretched out for far too long). If she didn't fully realize the implications of that and her own role until Pheles spelled it out for her, that's her own fault isn't it?

The other thing is, even if you need someone to fill that role of conveying that message, Yuuji already filled that role in the 1st half of season 1 and even part of season 2. We don't need to see it again in every one of his friends as they go through the same dilemma.

Sure the anime is running out of material, and it's reasonable to have a slow-paced episode after the last 3.
But they could easily focus on people with more interesting backgrounds - Pheles, Johan, Rammie, Hecate, etc. etc. They could go back and cover the background of Wilhelmina and the previous war, or Phele's past. There's a lot of good, interesting, and useful material the anime could use. They could even do the calm after the storm-type episode without Yoshida whining every 3 scenes.

[lua thien]

Interesting that there were blue embers for Yuji in the new OP as Shana has her usual red embers. I wonder if Yuji gets any flaming hair in the coming episodes.

It's also interesting that the 2nd ED has images of the bad guys appearing for the first time.

[Sterling01]

Originally Posted by ProtoMan

In fact... people have to understand that the producers have only so much novels left to work with, and unless we want an anime original ending (since the last novel is coming next month), the production studio should worry about leaving enough material for a last, 1 cour season. So I'd suggest people to mentally prepare themselves for some stretching

Uh, what are you talking about? With how many things happened in vol 16 there's no way it could end the next volume.

[Sterling01]

I wonder who these black flames belong to.



Not that I don't know

[serenade_beta]

Spoiler for ep16:

OP-Besides for the very early parts, it was awesome! Sabrac, Bloodsucker (Blutsauger, etc.)-wielding Yuuji, the action in general!
Of course, my opinion for the actual song is worse... 3/10. At least the animation distracts me...

As expected, after a few exciting action-packed episodes, we start to cool down. Kazumi thinks a lot, the Flame Hazes start to research, Bal Masque begins to move, Fumina is forgotten (NOOO! x infinte), and Yuuji starts to train with Mr. Engulfed in Self-Love's giant sword.

ED-Like the other Shana EDs, just a bunch of still pictures. At least this ED is more watchable and has a better song compared to the first one for season II. Still isn't as good as the first season's second ED...

Random Thoughts:

-Sayonara, Ike... Have fun working...

-Woah! Silver started moving from what Hecate gave her.
Then it moved even more... kinda of scary now...

-Dantalion needs more lines. I find the way he talks and everything funny.
And Domino makes his reappearance!

-For Pheles to give Kazumi such a double-edged treasure!! User dies to call Pheles?! Not exactly the best trade... since die=completely forgotten in this case...
Don't use it, Kazumi! She should have thrown it away!
Just carry a cellphone, Pheles.

-Seems Tanaka can't stand the Crimson World anymore after that traumatizing experience with Ogata... Good decision, boy.
Meanwhile, Satou has the opposite feeling. He wants to delve deeper...

-I completely forgot he existed, but Yuuji's dad is leaving!

-Wonder what is the meaning of the last scene with Hecate and the bird...? Fuminaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!


Preview: Each Person's Path; more cool down, Tanaka leaves the Crimson World dealings?

Originally Posted by Sterling01

I wonder who these black flames belong to.



Not that I don't know

Full of lies!

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by DX HBK

Might be a theme that I could try winging a guess at.

Shana has red to represent the passion and love she feels for Yuji. But it also could represent sin and sacrifice, a foreboding element on what she might have to do.

Yuji has blue to represent faith and spiritual innocence he holds despite his current predicament. While blue might also represents a desire for peace, the irony could be the methods used to achieve it.

Kazumi has yellow to represent hope but it could also represent deceit or cowardice. Might have to do something about that crucifix Hougu.

Faith, Hope, and Love? You're kidding me right? Actually, it could be quite possible, since the number 3 has had a lot of exposure in the Shana series (I mean, come on, there's three of everything if you look closely).

Just to comment on the new OP, I absolutely loved it, but it doesn't really fit Shana's kind of theme. But if you really listened to KOTOKO's music, she doesn't really do much of that kind of thing. I mean, Mami Kawada's JOINT is comparable to KOTOKO's Suppuration -core-, which isn't really KOTOKO's style.

[kimchipride]

WOW

That was a great opening with great animation. I wish Shana animation was like that all the time. That would make my view on the show a little higher.

[mist2123]

I liked the episode and OP but the OP makes you feel like this is a harem anime.

[shadowWizz]

Didn't think i catch the coss-shaped Hougu's name...
Anyways, i noticed that there are some similarities between that particular Hougu and the pendant which Shana has that summons Alastor.

Both of them (the Hougu and Shana's pendant), are used for summoning and kills the host. Except that we already know that in Shana's case, she'll be fine because we saw her use it (tenpa jyousai) the last season.

So, my question would be that does any one knows that if Yoshida Kazumi will use that Hougu?
If yes, will she survive the summon?
Many thanks in advance to anyone who can answer the question...

[Proto]

I mean...the whole concept of having one's existence erased isn't really grounds for mental turmoil...she has been through several experiences where the threat of death and the concept of one's own mortality has turned up, and she knows fully well about the concept of existence from seeing it with her own eyes. If she didn't understand the implications, it's only because of her own naivette and refusal to face the truth, much as Sakai refused to do so in the first season (which I also felt was painfully stretched out for far too long). If she didn't fully realize the implications of that and her own role until Pheles spelled it out for her, that's her own fault isn't it?

IMHO there is a whole world of difference between having your life eternally on danger and having your whole existence been forgotten. Moreover, It would be perfectly understandable if she wasn't aware of the fact people whose power of existance fades away gets forgotten, given that it'd seem that no one has cared to sit down and explain things to her, other that what was strictly necessarily, and even if it wasn't the case, personally I think that there is nothing sadder in this world than having no one to remember you. In this respect, I'm glad when a literary character shares my feelings.

In any case, I won't disagree that she suffers from truth denial and naivette to some degree... but she has shown those traits since her early character definition. She has shown a definite development throughout the series, but you can still see that she hasn't entirely surpassed her original defects... and I find that entirely believable. Her character is consistant, and yet developing. She hasn't grown suddendly, yet she has shown steady development. Even if the character in question isn't of my entire liking, I find her character description to be quite good (even if the script doesn't benefit her) and that makes me forgive many of her faults.

The other thing is, even if you need someone to fill that role of conveying that message, Yuuji already filled that role in the 1st half of season 1 and even part of season 2. We don't need to see it again in every one of his friends as they go through the same dilemma.

Really? I think that it was not much of a problem since the point wasn't so excessively stressed beyond the point of showing her having similar doubts without lingering too much on it. And even if it was the case, it wasn't as much of her character's fault as it was the scriptwriter's

In the end, it's not a matter of whose opinion's is right, since in this case it's all about subjectiveness and certain factors you care about more than others, so, to each to his own, I'd guess ^_^ (It's just that I feel compelled to express my opinion when I see so much Yoshida hate, I guess it's for the sake of balance )

Uh, what are you talking about? With how many things happened in vol 16 there's no way it could end the next volume.

My bad. I shouldn't be posting rumors as proven facts. But there has been an insistent rumour since early 2007 that volume 17 would be Shana's last. Still, I apologize for the confusion.

Didn't think i catch the coss-shaped Hougu's name...

Giralda I think it is.

[Phantasmagoria]

Right, I shall comment on the new OP and ED.

As an I've fan, I am quite disappointed.

There's nothing wrong with the singing(to a large extent), but it's the flow and animation that is.

The first opening [JOINT] fits in perfectly, many of the scenes are created and matches the song's tempo, making the whole 1.5 minutes so enjoyable and entertaining. However, we can barely see something similar in OP2. Yea, we can call it a change in style and whatever but, the fact remains. It's like, having a opening full of happy faces, and giving it a sad song. That's a bad combination. Despite all the negative things I have said, the opening still far surpasses alot other anime I just have higher expectations, given that the vocalist is KOTOKO.

That aside, if we compare BLAZE separately with Being, I am very glad to comment that BLAZE has a lot of potential. Many of KOTOKO's songs are like that. You have to repeat a few times and try to catch on, then start to get "addicted," falling in love with it(BLAZE.)

The first 40 second reminds me of Short Circuit(Hmm? Some-what child-ish..), the rest of the other 50 second reminds me of Siren(I don't know why..), except the whole feel is different, in-between happiness and sadness.

ED2.. Disregarding animation, I am actually attracted to its creativity and style.
Still have to listen a few more times, but for a song with the quality of 192kbps, I am really amazed. Till then, 12/3/08 is the release date of this single, patiently awaiting for loss-less

[Kinny Riddle]

New OP "BLAZE" is OK for me, upon repeated viewings, though "JOINT" is still better. At least we get to see Yuji kick some ass at last as a way to make up for being a helpless wimp in the last two episodes.

New ED "Sociometry" is slightly better than "triangle". Animation is defintely better and more eye-catching, with the flashy lights surrounding the characters.

- Looks like poor Ike is resigned to being the series comic relief.

- What a gift Pheles has given Yoshida. Pheles can tell how painful it must be for Yoshida to watch from the sides as Yuji and Shana grow ever closer to each other. She offers Yoshida a "way out", a form of suicide by using the Houguu and have her PoE disappear and be forgotten, since she reckoned Yoshida is more or less being "forgotten" anyway. Be assured that Yoshida will be playing an important role when the time comes.

- Bal Masque lays low for now and bides its time. Meanwhile, Hecate seems to be having some resonance with the memories she collected from Fumina. All bets are open that this original factor will lead to an original anime ending, just like the first series.

- Bel-Peol, Hecate, "Professor" Dantalion and his servant Rinne, Domino, all appear, but where's Sydonay? Already I'm beginning to miss him.

- Next episode seems to also focus on Tanaka questioning his commitment with Margery after the scare with Ogata nearly killed, and this would lead to tensions between him and Satou.

- Speaking of Satou, I still think he's criminally underdeveloped by both author Takahashi and the scenario writers. I certainly like to know how he ended up being estranged from his rich family. He's like the rich version of Tomoya from Clannad.

Next episode's title is "Sorezore no Michi" (Each to their own path), which is probably one of the most cliched episode titles I've seen in anime and manga. I think I've seen like 10 anime with an episode with such a title already.

[Susanou]

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

Bel-Peol, Hecate, "Professor" Dantalion and his servant Rinne, Domino, all appear, but where's Sydonay? Already I'm beginning to miss him.

Spoiler for Answer:

Remember the end of episode 2 of the 2nd season? Sydonay said he was out 'to do something' but warned Bel-Peol not to do anything to Hecate while he is away.

[Kinny Riddle]

Originally Posted by Susanou

Spoiler for Answer:

Remember the end of episode 2 of the 2nd season? Sydonay said he was out 'to do something' but warned Bel-Peol not to do anything to Hecate while he is away.

Thanks for reminding. Wonder if giving Hecate that bracelet and cloning herself so she can obtain memories from Yuji counts as "doing something"?