Aquarion EVOL - generic discussion thread

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

News flash: Kawamori did troll the shippers in Frontier. The unresolved triangle was partly his idea along with members of the staff.

How is that trolling? I mean yes, shippers didn't like it, but as someone who wasn't invested in either of the possible ships (I was much more interested in the relationship between Sheryl and Ranka) and who is not a fan of love triangles, I loved the "open" end, I thought it was a genius solution. Everyone is happy, no-one is bound by a canon solution and we're free to imagine who ends up with whom and how, etc. So the only time I felt there was any "trolling" going on it was when it turned out that it was just a hook so more people would go see the movies. Er, sorry, movies? What movies? I know of no Macross F movies. Ahem.

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

So this is not a shipping war, but we're discussing whom we believe will get together and our reasons for preferring it. What I do know is this--- your premise is flawed (I am saying this to both of you)

Er... OK, look, you ship KaguraxMikono. Good for you, have fun with it, etc... But truth is, I don't see much point in discussing any end game ships. Partly because I believe in ship and let ship regardless of what happens in canon, and I don't think any ship is superior to another. Partly because if someone is dead-set on a certain pairing there's really no way they'd change their mind and the bias that comes with shipping (and I see no reason why they should change their mind, for that matter, although the bias is a different thing). And partly because we're at episode 6, at this point ANYTHING is possible. It may turn out that Kagura is the reincarnation of Celiane who wanted to try something different this time. It may turn out that Amata is actually that flying dog that was hanging around Apollonius (that would explain why he reminds me of a puppy...). It may turn out that Mikono has half of Fudou's soul. This is Aquarion, it runs on wacky stuff.

Long story short, while I do sometimes comment on stuff that concerns various ships, for me it's mostly about characterization and stuff. (Or when I feel the need to point out that not everyone has the same opinion. :P) Obviously I do have preferences, both in actual pairings and also characterization and relationship dynamics, but I'm trying to avoid discussions about which ship will come true. I just don't find it particularly fun. (Not just in EVOL mind you, this is something of a principle for me.)

(Btw, I think I'm older than you so Kuro would be fine. )

[Zuul]

I just want my 2 favorites charas to get what they want.

Kagura gets Mikono.

And Zess gets Amata. If next week confirms she's really in the naive innocent type and not just trolling Mikono.

Besides AmataxMikono is just so unsexy compared to the other 2 possible alternatives. XD

[DragoonKain3]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

How is that trolling? I mean yes, shippers didn't like it...

I dunno, isn't that the VERY definition of 'trolling the shippers'? XD

Seriously speaking, I wasn't invested in either Ranka or Sheryl at the time, but even I got seriously got miffed (trolled if you like) by the ending. Even M7 had Basara making a decision (music!), and MF was the first Macross that was open ended in terms of romance... and I hated Kawamori for it.

Originally Posted by hyl

Also i don't think it's unlikely that Kagura can become a main character if he does end up being the incarnation of apollonius or apollo.

As far, as I'm concerned, Kagura's constant amount of screen time in every episode is already suspect in that it might be they're trying to make him into one.

Good examples too, but the one I'm actually thinking of is Gundam SEED. At first Athrun was framed as an antagonist, but really he was co-protagonist w/Kira like 1/4 of the way into the series.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by hyl

Like i have said before Yomi from Gai Rei Zero, kumugawa from Medaka box, Siren from suite precure are examples of villains becoming one of the main characters. And let's add another one Accelerator from to aru majutsu no index (especially in the later novels, he was the main character instead of Touma in some of them) . Your reasoning that Kagura can't become a main character later seems pretty weak to me. Because a serie does not have to have 1 main character.
Also i don't think it's unlikely that Kagura can become a main character if he does end up being the incarnation of apollonius or apollo.

Kumagawa ISN'T the main character of Medaka Box and will most probably never be it. He may get a spin-off but that's not the same as becoming the main character of the story, and Touma is still the the overiding Main character in To aru, though there are several distinct storylines not focused on him on him at all (this is a case of multiple Mmain characters, but it also has several distinct and different stories, which Touma wouldn't automatically be assumed to be the leading character in). Haven't really read Ga Rei Zero and Suite precure so I'll take your word on it, but I wasn't saying it was impossible just extremely unlikely, pretty in the realm I want this to happen rather than i actually believe this has a real chance of happening.

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Kumagawa ISN'T the main character of Medaka Box and will most probably never be it. He may get a spin-off but that's not the same as becoming the main character of the story, and Touma is still the the overiding Main character in To aru, though there are several distinct storylines not focused on him on him at all. Haven't really read Ga Rei Zero and Suite precure so I'll take your word on it, but I wasn't saying it was impossible just extremely highly unlikely, pretty in the realm I want this to happen rather than i actually believe this has a real chance of happening.

Medaka is hardly being the main character at this moment, in fact she is acting more like the antagonist. Also from the point of the manga perspective there are way too many chapter focusing around Kumagawa and his alliance to call him not a main character now.
As for accelerator, he littlerly is the main character in some novels and the stories about the science side of the index serie and he is one of the main characters in the New Testament series.

As for not believing, why shouldn't you? There seems to be a huge bias on your side because of your character pairing preferences .

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by hyl

Medaka is hardly being the main character at this moment, in fact she is acting more like the antagonist. Also from the point of the manga perspective there are way too many chapter focusing around Kumagawa and his alliance to call him not a main character now.
As for accelerator, he littlerly is the main character in some novels and stories about the science side of the index and one of the main characters in the New Testament series

Neh Zenkichi is the closest to being the main character at the moment, Kumagawa isn't, he's a third wheel in practically every sense of the word. Though he is an important character and a main character, Zenkichi is the closest to being "The" main character.

[Vena]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

We're only up to episode six. I won't say endgame is either, not specifically anyway. I still have doubts, after all, it is still early to say which one is endgame. But I do think that both triangles will reach their end by 15 at most, or at least the female one.

This is Kawamori and Okada we're dealing with.

By episode ten, things will either be clear or at brain-hemorrhaging levels of confusing.

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Neh Zenkichi is the closest to being the main character at the moment, Kumagawa isn't, he's a third wheel in practically every sense of the word. Though he is an important character and a main charater, Zenkichi is the closest to being "The" main character.

How do you define such? Kumagawa is the current mover and shaker of our story, so even if the arc is around Zenkichi and Medaka's war, neither of them is actually driving the plot or moving the pieces.

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Neh Zenkichi is the closest the Main character at the moment, Kumagawa isn't, he's a third wheel in practically every sense of the word.

Did i mention that a story can have multiple main characters?
And Kumagawa is doing more than the other 2.
edit: got ninja'd on that

As for aquarion it's still too early to say that Kagura will remain to be an antagonist, but all the hints that the anime is giving suggests that he will become one of the main characters later. So either deal with it or drop this anime if you don't like the prospects of it.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Shikijin

The fact is that men are stronger than women, so in a fight a man is more likely to win. Anything that strays too much from that becomes too unrealistic. After all there is a reason why most sports are not played mixed.

Anyway, the point of women in Japanese anime is usually to show that there are things other than fighting, which is an important concept in itself. One could even say that by wishing there are stronger women on par with male characters one is using women only to approve his own righteousness. If women have no choice but to follow the path of men in everything, then it means men's way is right and women's way was wrong.

Silvia was very important in the climax of Aquarion without the need of using violence. This showed her women's way was even more important than men's. It should make you think.

And you're still proving my original point even further. I'm not sure why you sound like you're debating someting.

I guess none of the people commenting on my posts after mayumi are reading my original posts, because my whole point is how most of the time female characters get shafted in mecha anime combat-wise, regardless of skill. (not just in mecha animes though) Like Soma Peries in Gundam 00; she was a good pilot, but in S2 she didn't get anything done and ended up only serving as a character conflict for Allelujah Haptism.

What you're saying is an extension of my "girls in mecha anime get screwed out of getting combat focus" point.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by Vena

This is Kawamori and Okada we're dealing with.

By episode ten, things will either be clear or at brain-hemorrhaging levels of confusing.



How do you define such? Kumagawa is the current mover and shaker of our story, so even if the arc is around Zenkichi and Medaka's war, neither of them is actually driving the plot or moving the pieces.

Neither is Kumagawa, his goal is to return the status quo, that's pretty much the opposite of what you just said. Zenkichi and Aijimu are the movers and shakers of the plot, you know the ones planning a coup d'etat. With Zenkichi planning to take over as president and get the girl. Kumagawa's goal isn't exactly a main characters goal and even whatever hidden goal he has probably isn't one either.

Why are we talking about Medaka box here anyway... Let's just end this before we go further off topic.

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Why are we talking about Medaka box here anyway... Let's just end this before we go further off topic.

That's because you started talking about it when i was just giving examples of characters that started as antagonists, who became a main character later. Which was a response to your post that you didn't believe that those characters can exist.

Anyways, i will say it again: if you don't like a certain a development of an anime , you can easily drop that serie.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by hyl

That's because you started talking about it when i was just giving examples of characters that started as antagonists, who became a main character later. Which was a response to your post that you didn't believe that those characters can exist.

Anyways, i will say it again: if you don't like a certain a development of an anime , you can easily drop that serie.

Yeah and I'm responding to that, I'm simply saying what your hoping for isn't very likely (and if you look at it logically it really isn't). I'm just not sure how your going to deal with it should that not be the case, since your hyping yourself up for something that's unlikely. Which all non typical shippers do. I just think you should be prepared for the high possibility of being dissapointed.

That why you won't get the usual shipping rage that plagues these types of shows. So that should something happen you'll be pleasantly surprised rather than expecting it and end up being very annoyed. Considering how this thread is going if Kagura doesn't end up with Mikono there's going to be a lot of rage...

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

I dunno, isn't that the VERY definition of 'trolling the shippers'? XD

Not really - at least to me it didn't seem like they did it to spite shippers (which would be my definition of "trolling"). At first I thought they were both subverting the Macross love triangle trope (with the "I need both of you in my life" thing) and presented an end that is favorable to both girls and their "teams" (because at that point either could come true). Then it turned out that they were just trying to keep people's interest about the resolution and avoid scaring one team away from watching the movies. Neither sounds like trolling to me...

Same in Macross 7 for that matter - even though I preferred Mylene with Gamlin (aww Gamlin) I was more than fine with how it ended (partly because this way there was a chance for Gamlin as well as Basara if he ever became interested). Hell, I spent the series rooting for Gamlin while being absolutely convinced that he had no chance and Mylene would get together with Basara at the end... so yeah, I was actually rather satisfied.

/off-topic

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

That why you won't get the usual shipping rage that plagues these types of shows. So that should something happen you'll be pleasantly surprised rather than expecting it and end up being very annoyed.

Actually, I agree with this. I say let the show take us wherever it will, it's not worth getting so invested in something that may or may not come true.

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Yeah and I'm responding to that, I'm simply saying what your hoping for isn't very likely (and if you look at it logically it really isn't). I'm just not sure how your going to deal with it should that not be the case, since your hyping yourself up for something that's unlikely. Which all non typical shippers do. I just think you should be prepared for the high possibility of being dissapointed.

That why you won't get the usual shipping rage that plagues these types of shows. So that should something happen you'll be pleasantly surprised rather than expecting it and end up being very annoyed. Considering how this thread is going if Kagura doesn't end up with Mikono there's going to be a lot of rage...

I don't care who ends up with who, but i was fed up with you complainng about not wanting to accept the current events

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by hyl

I don't care who ends up with who, but i was fed up with you complainng about not wanting to accept the current events

Not accepting what current events?

[hyl]

Of realizing that Kagura plays a much bigger role in the story seeing your NTR comments and that he can't possible become a more important character because he is a rival/antagonist.

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by hyl

Of realizing that Kagura plays a much bigger role in the story seeing your NTR comments and that he can't possible become a more important character because he is a rival/antagonist.

I said it's highly unlikely he'll become the main character, which it is. He'll probably turn sides or at least join the good guys in some respect and become the most important character outside of Amata it's just very unlikely he'll become equal to or greater than Amata in importance. Looking at what happens in the vast, vast, vast majority of anime I'd be right.

Why am I being demonised for this point of view when really you all know this is the most likely outcome. Come on.

[Lord of Pandemonium]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

(Btw, I think I'm older than you so Kuro would be fine. )

I doubt it...

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I'm pretty sure her fear is from a general feeling and not from a single action

Actually her fear stems from the fact that she has no known elemental power and she feared the abductors. She was scared of Kagura, yet she could see he worried about her.
Which means she has no reason to fear him anymore...because she realized he worried about her. Of course this is an assumption but it's not completely baseless given she was touched by her Amata and her brother's feelings, which were exactly the same. She just informed the viewers that she knows Kagura "cares" about her.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Secondly, her wish to apologize is not a conscious feeling, heck she doesn't even remember it after wards.

If it's not a conscious feeling, that means They were connected before they even met Destiny

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Call it some spiritual instincts from a past life if you will.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

ICall it some spiritual instincts from a past life if you will.

You said that twice, now..so in other words They've know each other from the "past"?

ichiman'nen to nisen'nen mae kara aishiteru...
i

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I
Thirdly, you seem to be pushing very hard for this to be some hint of Kagura/Mikono

And you seem to be pushing for AmataxMikono so hard that you won't even admit that there is a possibility that Kagura is her destiny. While I acknowledge that AmataxMikono pairing has a really high chance of becoming canon.


I "Seem" to be? I thought I was blatantly pushing for them. Because as I said before. I am emotionally invested in the Apollo and Silvia Paring. When I first saw scans, I was prepared to ship Amata and Mikono--then I actually watched EVOL. I do not believe that Amata is the reincarnation of the solar wing. It's Kagura, therefor I am going to ship him with her until I see something that says he's not who I think he is. Because I ship them, no matter what they look like...

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

when it's more like that scene in the movies where King Kong grabbing the woman and trying to runaway with her...You know, I've seen these symptoms before back in the old days of the Nanoha subforums...

huh? Um... you don't know you can't debunk an opinion with another opinion?

You realize, this is "spin" this is an opinion. YOURS. It's not a fact. We're only 6 episodes in. How can you be so sure? Especially when the brutish ape got a reaction out of the woman, that her savior did not...
Kagura hasn't even had that much alone time with her but he sure made a bigger impact.

EVOL's theme is "Forbidden Love" ...Love is no good, and Apollon and Sylvie are separated. Apollonius was originally the enemy. It's not that farfetched to assume is about Apollon trying to find Sylvie this time. That the beast is searching for his mate--especially since he will never forget her "scent"...something Amata hasn't mentioned not once. In the OS...Apollo always tracked Sylvia by her scent. Something Evol put heavy emphasis on in the premiere. He will always know her by "scent"

You might think that Evol is about AmataxMikono but there is a really good chance that Amata is a romantic false lead, whose purpose is to keep two destined lovers apart. Seriously why is she getting married to him...Why is the prophecy about them being togehter. Why is it a "forbidden love"?

Food for thought...(have you seen the original? I think it helps, if you have)

Again, this is just an opinion but I believe I am justified for believing it. Based on what I know of the past, and what I see in EVOL

[KBTKaiser]

One quote of the episode got me thinking...

Kagura: *to Amata* I can't smell anything from you...

Suddenly...Amata could be the reincarnation of Aquarion's Spirit itself? The fact that Kagura essentially smells Elemental powers kinda plays into this...

[Adigard]

Not to derail this any further (if that's even possible), but can we maybe define this whole "main" character thing?

Typically stories that have either a singular 'main character' the story stays with throughout, or it swaps between multiple viewpoint 'characters'.

Saying a story can have many main characters is like saying a story can have multiple protagonists. It's sort of meaningless to the origins of the word. Saying a story can have a main character who is not the protagonist when the two words mean pretty much the same thing is equally odd.

I will agree stores can have multiple characters and spend time looking out at the world from each of their viewpoints... but each character isn't really the main character, per se. They're just characters at that point. I agree the main character does not have to be the hero... he can be a narrator or sidekick type role.

Minor nitpick, sorry.

//EDIT: Added 'viewpoint' to the second sentence for clarity. I spell it out better later in the post, but felt it was better to clarify.