Toradora! - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

Guys, I wasn't saying she doesn't have a right to go after him. What I don't like is how she's bringing Ryuuji into her plan to further her own agenda. Your own feelings are one thing, it's another entirely when you start using other people to get what you want. She doesn't really seem to care what he wants, she just views him as a way of getting a potential rival out of the picture, and I suspect she's going to start some trouble in the next episode (Possibly starting a rumor about him wanting Taiga which'll get back to Minori (Speculation)). Even if a real person might behave like this, it's still a pretty shitty thing to do.

And? It's not like we're supposed to sympathize with her.

Characters doing shitty things like this is what makes them more human.

Besides, she's voiced by Ai Nonaka, which automatically makes her awesome.

Originally Posted by Isekaijin

But the new and sulky Minorin is something I can't get used to yet. What's the problem with her? Apparently she likes Ryuuji and he likes her back. And Taiga has her crush with Kitamura. Unless she is worring about Ami(which I honestly doubt) I can't see any problems. She should just go for him. That's not like her at all.

The problem is Taiga. Taiga needs Ryuuji.

What happens if Ryuuji goes away?

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

They kinda dumbed down Ryuuji in the show. In the books at the end of Volume 2 Ami tells Ryuuji that Kitamura has a "Special Someone", and one of the people he suspects is Maya.

To be fair, he's had little to no contact with her. She's just some random girl in his class.

Originally Posted by Led_Zeppelin

ALL HAIL ZEPPELIN!!!!!

...Um. Sorry, but that's getting a little annoying.

Could you stop that, please?

[Mistypearl]

The little bit with Inko cracked. me. up. I burst out laughing, oh my god best part.

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

And? It's not like we're supposed to sympathize with her.

Characters doing shitty things like this is what makes them more human.

Besides, she's voiced by Ai Nonaka, which automatically makes her awesome

Agreed (how weird it sounds to agree on something with you).

Human doesn't mean good. It doesn't mean bad. It means both.

And I like such characters.

Real life is not Balzac's books where you can easily distinguish bad and good and good are always good and bad are always evil.

Yeah she uses others. So? She is not evil because of that, she is human.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Yeah she uses others. So? She is not evil because of that, she is human.

Exactly.

A bit off topic, but, in Dungeons and Dragons, humans are identified as being, in general, Neutrally-aligned, not Good like dwarves and elves or Evil like orcs and goblins.

Says something, don't it?

[Kushi]

Urgh the Ami 1 sentences are really starting to piss me off... Sure it's great to develop other characters, but how hard is it to include her in some stuff? She appears for like less than 1 minute per episode now from like 10 minutes :S... The animation seems much better than the previous episodes however, 7 out of 10

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Kushi

Urgh the Ami 1 sentences are really starting to piss me off... Sure it's great to develop other characters, but how hard is it to include her in some stuff? She appears for like less than 1 minute per episode now from like 10 minutes :S... The animation seems much better than the previous episodes however, 7 out of 10

Ami's development is pretty much done, at this point.

Please try to remember that she got more development than any other characters early on in the show's run... now it's other people's turn.

This show is not just about Ami. And she will be more important later.

[Traece]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

Guys, I wasn't saying she doesn't have a right to go after him. What I don't like is how she's bringing Ryuuji into her plan to further her own agenda. Your own feelings are one thing, it's another entirely when you start using other people to get what you want. She doesn't really seem to care what he wants, she just views him as a way of getting a potential rival out of the picture, and I suspect she's going to start some trouble in the next episode (Possibly starting a rumor about him wanting Taiga which'll get back to Minori (Speculation)). Even if a real person might behave like this, it's still a pretty shitty thing to do.

Although I understand what you're saying, again, what Taiga has done in the past isn't entirely different. After all, you could view Taiga as having intended to use Ryuuji to help her get Kitamura to like her. Just like he evidently ends up using Taiga to get him close to Minorin. That was the deal, they'd help eachother. They just ended up becoming great friends because of it.

I wouldn't say she's using Ryuuji to get Taiga away from Kitamura, as much as she's trying to swap herself out with Taiga. Supporting Ryuuji in his plans to help her get with Kitamura means him getting with Taiga.

What does that situation remind you of? A certain duo perhaps?

Also... I have to say I don't understand all the Toradora hate over a lack of Ami. I mean you got to see her in sexy Christmas clothes, what more do you want? She'll be useful later on, obviously. Just re-watch that scene repeatedly until it happens.

[Tyabann]

Ah, irony. Glorious, isn't it?

[HayashiTakara]

Minori honestly is really starting to annoy me, I should've noticed all the signs that she's a self-induced emo wearing a happy mask.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Minori honestly is really starting to annoy me, I should've noticed all the signs that she's a self-induced emo wearing a happy mask.

Yeah, you really shouldn't be surprised. The "class clown" archetype is really prone to that kind of character development.

[Freya]

Originally Posted by Kushi

Urgh the Ami 1 sentences are really starting to piss me off... Sure it's great to develop other characters, but how hard is it to include her in some stuff? She appears for like less than 1 minute per episode now from like 10 minutes :S... The animation seems much better than the previous episodes however, 7 out of 10

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Ami's development is pretty much done, at this point.

Please try to remember that she got more development than any other characters early on in the show's run... now it's other people's turn.

This show is not just about Ami. And she will be more important later.

Yeah dude I agree with Kushi!!!! More Amii!!! Haha. But Kaisos is true. Sadly Ami is just a strong supporting character and not a main one.

Sigh. First it was Kitamura being emo now its Kushidas turn....only thing I didn't like about this episode.

Everything else was pretty good. New ep and end songs played nicely too.


ALL HAIL INKO-CHAN!!!!

[DragoZERO]

I'm a little dissapointed that this is turning into a big love polygon with only one guy. It was better when there were two guys but I guess it can't go on like that.

This episode was pretty decent, set the stage decently and the bird always wins.

So does Minorin like Ryuji now? Thats like out of the blue.

[Nukerjsr]

Hey look, today the side characters do something!

First off, I love the new OP/ED. It's more straight-forward with the themes of romance but it is just phenominal sounding. It flows together really nicely and does a great representation of the characters. Kitamura might not be in it as much, but as we've seen with this episode that he still plays a prominent role.

It was pretty great I would say. Taiga was being really toradorable in the first half just because of how much she loves Christmas and we've rarely seen her act that way at all. So it was really a cuteness overload. It was pretty interesting though to see everyone's feelings really come through especially with the three main girls. Ami still shows interest, Minori is conflicted and Taiga gets some more opportunity.

I didn't really care for Minori and Ryuuji in this episode. Minori (who I wish would stop wearing that bald cap) is conflicted, sure...but it would just nice to see a little characterization from her. Because her shifting from happy weird to suddenly serious is just plain awkward. Ryuuji is getting more irritating too just because he felt so negative in this episode, it's like he didn't appreciate the fact that it was Christmas and Taiga was happy. And it's usually a bad sign to me if he responds to most things in a "Oh..." fashion...constantly.

But overall, it was a good episode because it was charming and fun. And the side characters got some time of there own, especially with Kiharu and her concerns. (Who I was always refering to as That Shirley Look-a-Like)

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

I'm a little dissapointed that this is turning into a big love polygon with only one guy. It was better when there were two guys but I guess it can't go on like that.

Are you referring to Ryuuji or Kitamura?

Kitamura has three girls that are confirmed to like him. Ryuuji has, well, Minori at this point.

Everything else is just speculation. Ami's feelings are a mystery and Taiga's, though hinted at, really haven't come to the forefront.

To me, this episode is really more about Ryuuji's feelings, in any case. Look at his expression of shock at "Angel" Taiga at 4:58, before he goes into Snark Mode. Heh.

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

So does Minorin like Ryuji now? Thats like out of the blue.

Not really. They've only spent, I don't know, at least little bit of each of the last 8 episodes on that plot thread.

Originally Posted by Nukerjsr

I didn't really care for Minori and Ryuuji in this episode. Minori (who I wish would stop wearing that bald cap) is conflicted, sure...but it would just nice to see a little characterization from her. Because her shifting from happy weird to suddenly serious is just plain awkward. Ryuuji is getting more irritating too just because he felt so negative in this episode, it's like he didn't appreciate the fact that it was Christmas and Taiga was happy. And it's usually a bad sign to me if he responds to most things in a "Oh..." fashion...constantly.

I've said it before, but the episodes that open each arc are usually vastly inferior to the episodes that end each arc.

All your negative feelings toward those two will probably be nullified by the epic arc ending. Perhaps. Maybe.

I don't know?

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Are you referring to Ryuuji or Kitamura?

Kitamura has three girls that are confirmed to like him. Ryuuji has, well, Minori at this point.

Everything else is just speculation. Ami's feelings are a mystery and Taiga's, though hinted at, really haven't come to the forefront.

Kitamura. I should have said that my impression came from the ending though, my apologies.

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by Nukerjsr

It was pretty great I would say. Taiga was being really toradorable in the first half just because of how much she loves Christmas and we've rarely seen her act that way at all. So it was really a cuteness overload. It was pretty interesting though to see everyone's feelings really come through especially with the three main girls. Ami still shows interest, Minori is conflicted and Taiga gets some more opportunity.

All that "I love Christmas"act by Taiga is painful.
If you listen to her comments, it about "If I be a GOOD GIRL, Santa will bring a gift" meaning she's repenting her past acts. It also means that she wants something in exchange but deep down she knows that there is no Santa meaning she's grasping for something she knows she can't possibly reach.
When she realizes that she is grasping then shes going to have a complete emotional break down dragging in all that are involved with her.

Again a train wreck waiting to happen.

[CrowKenobi]

And what's wrong with embracing the spirit of the season?

[BetoJR]

Yeah, the spirit of the season is a materialistic shop-till-you-drop little character that's going to give you a present if you "oh, behave". That's the spirit.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Tri-ring

Again a train wreck waiting to happen.

And that's why this show is so glorious.

Aaah. Suffering.

[BetoJR]

I'd wager good money that the most fun all of these characters had is all in the past episodes, already. The drama will only intensify from now on.