Morality in Death Note? Do the ends justify the means?

[Akabane_Kun]

Originally Posted by Viperus

crime really isnt decreasing , beacuse if you count his actions as crime , it basicly stays the same.

At least the only persons dying are the ones that should die in the first place not innocent persons that didnt deserve dead penalty or other type of abuses.

[Theowne]

Uh....so my opinion: In the first episode Light used the book to stop a hostage situation, and save a girl from the bikers. Both were for the safety of an innocent person from an evil person. I guess back then the idea was is it right to kill someone freely like that and completely prevent a chance of harm. If we had asked this question back then, then it might be ambiguous, but at the moment Light is a clearly evil. It's true that he seems to think it is for the sake of "justice", but it's in a selfish way that he pursues this - so he can be the God of a perfect world. Since somewhere around episode 3 or 4 I just completely formed L as the hero and Light as the villain.

[Viperus]

Ryuk said it to him in ep 1. When you create this new world , the only one evil will be you.

And I noticed that you guys didnt even consider the fact that some of those guys might be innocent , rotting in jail for something they didnt do. And now great divine punishment kills them for a crime somebody else did. His system is good , as long as you dont frame the crime to somebody else.

for example: I kill some guy , make it look like my friend did it. Now this happenes :

a) my friend goes to jail , Light kills him sooner or later.

or

b) my friend is free , due to lack of evidence , since he didnt do it. Light kills him sooner.

c) Somehow I get the blame for the crime I did. nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Oh , and Light kills me.

Light doesnt do it to help people. When that girl almoast got raped he didnt think "She's in danger , OMG , I must help her. go Death Note XD"

it was more like "oh , well , its not like she's gonna die or anything....oh wait , what a good time to test this book. go Death Note"

He isnt good at all. If he was , he would get the Shinigami eyes. The only reason he doesn't want them is because he wants to live long as the ruler of the world. Good guys aren't suppose to be selfish like that.


If he found Gundam Uber RX-3 instead of the death note, the story would be pretty much the same. He would kill people , ultimately becoming the ruler of the world. (only more mecha fights)

Oh wait......now I remember.....thats Code Geass XD

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Akabane_Kun

At least the only persons dying are the ones that should die in the first place not innocent persons that didnt deserve dead penalty or other type of abuses.

That's not necessarily true. The only reason that we have to believe this is that Light claimed that they deserved to die. His word in this case is worth exactly jack and squat.

Originally Posted by Theowne

Uh....so my opinion: In the first episode Light used the book to stop a hostage situation, and save a girl from the bikers. Both were for the safety of an innocent person from an evil person. I guess back then the idea was is it right to kill someone freely like that and completely prevent a chance of harm. If we had asked this question back then, then it might be ambiguous, but at the moment Light is a clearly evil.

The first two cases are slightly different. Light had no idea that he would kill the first person, so it can be considered an inadvertent killing. The second is actually justifiable, but it doesn't exactly speak well of Light. He wasn't really trying to save the girl; merely he saw it as an opportunity to test out the Death Note. Remember that Light originally thought about trying it out on his classmate, but decided against it on the basis that he shouldn't kill anyone too close to him.

So far, I've only seen the first episode, and there's no question in my mind of the immorality of Light's actions.

[Viperus]

I was just wondering , if you have shinigami's eyes , can you see the person's name if he/she is wearing a mask , and even if you see the person's name ,you still need to see his face?

[Yoshire]

Originally Posted by Viperus

I was just wondering , if you have shinigami's eyes , can you see the person's name if he/she is wearing a mask , and even if you see the person's name ,you still need to see his face?

I don't know if this has been covered in the anime, but in the manga it was stated that you needed a clear view of a persons face.
A profile is good enough, but things like masks and such doesn't cut it.

[Kasiro]

Originally Posted by Akabane_Kun

At least the only persons dying are the ones that should die in the first place not innocent persons that didnt deserve dead penalty or other type of abuses.

You should not forget that the ones who makes the reports etc are also human, one could easily set something up and the ''innocent'' person would be killed. Not to mention that criminals are just those that we suspect of having performed a crime, there are still plenty of crimes unsolved, so you cannot say that one person is 100% innocent for sure.

IMO ofcourse

[Viperus]

Kira is relying on the news......I mean , thats TV , they dont say the truth all the time , sometimes they just make up a story without evidence. TV gives some speculation who might the criminal be , and boom , he's dead.

[Darmani]

Something to consider in the manga he killed the biker because he was harassing and rude. Light is too self congratulatory and I've spoken how Misa is there to prove how his philosophy and actions are screwed up. He doesn't create a world of saints but of sycophants ones he has no trouble using.

[BeatmaniaC]

all right... i'm not reading twentysix pages of this... i absolutely love this series because of the character personalities and the awesome plot, but there's something kind of obvius... LIGHT IS STUPID

so.. if you want someone to die, just make him look like a criminal and make him appear on the news, there's a stupid guy with a death note who is going to kill him

i'm against all kind of death penalty because people judging people is just lame, anybody would be sad to die because of some false accusation..

[Viperus]

There should be a special task force , that is above all world's leaders , which is uncorrput (they should have such high salaries that nobody will be able to bribe them) with their identity hidden. They should be able to arrest anybody on earth , president , chief of FBI , the Pope lol. Also , powerfull criminals that commited a lot of crimes should be held in prisons without any comunication to the outside world , so they cant influence it anymore.

That's probably the only way for true justice to prevail. (I wonder if something like this will ever happen?)

Light isn't even close to be able to call himself justice.

[Zarola]

To me Raito (Light) was a good guy with the wrong equipment. He started out on the right track, but making stupid decisions like allowing them to die at the same time for months. Leading up to them thinkig he is a student. He lose that last shread of innocence when he killed those who opposed him. If he had not pulled that busjacking stunt Ray Penbar would have passed him by and his wife wouldn't hae been suspicious (leading to that race against time). Don't get me wrong he's a celver smart guy, but his stupid mistakes have left no option except going with the tide.

Now about the DN itself. I believe it is a book version of the Monkey's Paw. You have good intentions but the come out badly. Also it's hard not to use it coz there's always that nagging in your head to use it.

[chibi_star1]

in my opinion, i don't think light is a good guy at all nor does he care about anyone as much as he claims he does. i think that the reason he chooses to murder criminals is so he could have some means of support from SOME people in the general public. in actuality, he is just doing this to get attention and to display his power for all to see and fear.

Spoiler:

remember in the second episode, he was so excited when he was given a nickname. he said that people are starting to notice him as well as the power he holds (or something like that). notice he never once talks about the innocent people he would be saving by killing murderers etc., but when it comes to his own ability to awe the general public, he gets excited.

also, i don't remember exactly what episode, it was the one where ryuk tells him that whoever touches the death note would be able to see him. when light found this out he went over the top in order to make sure no one in his family finds out his secret because if they did, he said that he would be forced to kill his own family. this shows us that he would, without a doubt, kill members of his own family in order to ensure his secret is safe.

i also think that the fact that his identity is unkown, also gives him power. it's sorta like in nazi germany, everyone was afraid to talk bad about the government because they did not know who would turn them in. i think that the future that light has planned is very similar to the way it was back during the nazi reign in germany because hitler blamed the jews for all of germany's problems and thus began the genocide. this is very similar because light blames criminals for the fact the the world is "rotten" so he began a genocide of his own, but instead of exterminating a particular race, he plans to exterminate all criminals.

[Jaden]

I think the reason Light is trying to become "god of the perfect world" is just that it's a very noble ideal and it is probably the best thing possible that can be done with the death note's power. He got the note and thought this:
"Life has blessed me with genius and the power of a death god. This kind of thing may happen only once in the history of man. It is my destiny to change the world, and I'm going to change it the best way possible. The importance of this kind of mission justifies all means. I cannot die, I cannot be imprisoned. I care not for what happens to my soul, but in life nothing may stand in my way."
Even if he is evil, he could be much more evil. What would have been the "good" thing to do? Not use the note? If he did that then Ryuk would probably get bored, kill Light, and give the note to someone else until he finds someone who kills stuff and makes good drama for Ryuk to watch.
Therefore the true evil is Ryuk and other death gods who bring death notes into the human's world. That people are dying of heart attacks is their fault alone. Light kills mostly criminals, which is, while evil, perhaps the best outcome that there could be.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Jaden

"Life has blessed me with genius and the power of a death god. This kind of thing may happen only once in the history of man. It is my destiny to change the world, and I'm going to change it the best way possible. The importance of this kind of mission justifies all means. I cannot die, I cannot be imprisoned. I care not for what happens to my soul, but in life nothing may stand in my way."

I don't know about you, but I can easily imagine someone like Jack the Ripper saying the exact same thing to himself.

Originally Posted by Jaden

Even if he is evil, he could be much more evil.

That's not much of a defense.

[Sendoh718]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Therefore the true evil is Ryuk and other death gods who bring death notes into the human's world. That people are dying of heart attacks is their fault alone. Light kills mostly criminals, which is, while evil, perhaps the best outcome that there could be.

that's untrue. Shinigami kill people to extend their own life. it's a similar argument with humans killing animals for food. Shinigami have a very direct benefit to do what they do. they kill to survive, they have no other options.

if you want to place blame you would have to go higher up to the people or person that created Death Notes for the Shinigami to use. it seems pretty apparent that there's a greater power above them, the one that set all the rules.

Light kills and gains nothing, that's evil.

[Jaden]

then what would you do if you were him?

[Viperus]

funny , you guys are looking down on shinigami and Light , but what would you do in his place?

Power gets to people (didnt you read/watch LOTR ). If you had some kind of supernatural power , you'd start to look at other people as inferior sooner or later.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Viperus

funny , you guys are looking down on shinigami and Light , but what would you do in his place?

That's simple - most people, myself included, won't kill anyone. In general, people are intrinsically unwilling to kill people, that's why soldiers have to be given specialized training in order to bring themselves to kill. People in the general population who have no problems killing others outside of stressful situations tend to be labeled as psychopaths. The Death Note is nothing more than a very powerful murder weapon; turning the question around, what would you do if you were given, say, a suitcase nuclear bomb? Would you all of a sudden be inclined to use it just because simply possessing it grants you
a degree of power?

Originally Posted by Viperus

Power gets to people (didnt you read/watch LOTR ). If you had some kind of supernatural power , you'd start to look at other people as inferior sooner or later.

How is supernatural power any different from real power? Do people who possess an ability automatically see the ones that don't as inferior? It may be the case for many people, but they would tend to be jerks regardless of their power. By the way, the Lord of the Rings is a fictional work, and it holds as little credibility as the bogeyman does regarding how real people would behave.

[Moon Eclipse]

The ends do justify the mean. History is written by the victor.