AnimeSuki Forums

Kirarakim · 2013-03-04, 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Well, I'd say the story is definitely inspired by "War with the Salamanders" by Karel Čapek (not sure about the English title)...

Looked it up it is aka "War with the Newts". I have not read it so it never crossed my mind but after reading the summary yeah I can definitely see the similarities.

Ringil · 2013-03-04, 16:25

It's really... uhh suspicious why Kiroumaru was at Tokyo before. Seems like the most probable reason is that he was looking for the Pyschobuster, which makes it seem much more plausible he's a co-culprit with Squealer. Despite how much I want to believe that Kiroumaru is really a good guy, he seems pretty suspicious...

ChronoReverse · 2013-03-04, 16:41

Yeah, I always wondered what they're hinting at with his grin/snarl which the camera focuses on a lot. I suppose we'll find out soon.

SeijiSensei · 2013-03-04, 19:24

I thought the transition from Kiroumaru as prisoner to Kiroumaru as guide was pretty implausible. He was locked up in a dungeon because the town's leadership decided he was incredibly dangerous. Yet everyone suddenly agrees he should be released to take part in the most important mission of all, one to protect their town and indeed human civilization itself?

I'll just ignore the sudden mysterious appearance of a submarine, one which by the looks of it would have resulted in them all dying from lack of oxygen.

I find it hard to accept that Kiroumaru would be in league with Squealer since it would have meant agreeing to the useless slaughter of all his troops. That seems rather out-of-character for him. On top of that I'd imagine he would spend the rest of his days waiting for Squealer to assassinate him.

Are there any other Giant Hornets left besides Kiroumaru?

kuromitsu · 2013-03-04, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I thought the transition from Kiroumaru as prisoner to Kiroumaru as guide was pretty implausible. He was locked up in a dungeon because the town's leadership decided he was incredibly dangerous. Yet everyone suddenly agrees he should be released to take part in the most important mission of all, one to protect their town and indeed human civilization itself?

Well, he was locked up because the monks decided to be merciful and not kill him.

By the way, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, this was also the anime simplifying things a great deal,

Spoiler for book:

I think the anime did an okay job of making him seem reasonably trustworthy, though. There's really no reason why he should be in league with someone who destroyed his colony, and they really need all the help they can get, even if it's risky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Are there any other Giant Hornets left besides Kiroumaru?

The queen. Plus I guess some pups that weren't killed as per their customs?

Forsaken_Infinity · 2013-03-05, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Personally, the most brilliant part of this entire final fiend arc is the fact that we have not even seen Yakomarou even once since the conflict started. Everything about the plan is made in reference to him like he's some kind of grand puppet master pulling the strings. We see nothing of him and his actual true involvement in this rebellion other than it being claimed as his brainchild so to speak.

Which will make it extremely intriguing once they show him in the story again, and we gain his perspective on this entire thing.

Yes, if nothing else, Yakomaru deserves massive props for playing his part (either as the primary antagonist or the showcase antagonist or the guy-to-be-hated in The Great Queerrat Rebellion)to near perfection. From a mere inconsequential "thing" they saved to "What'd you say? THE GENERAL HIMSELF is after us?" kind of shock and fear inducing near-omniscient and near-omnipresent yet unseen phenomenon. That's quite a ride to the top of the power chain.

I think it was rather Saki and Satoru's trust on Kiroumaru that made the monks let him be the guide. Saki has been designated as the next leader, and they know it. Satoru already held a rather influential position and also happens to be one of the more potent psychics as well as a relative of the lastleader. They are also the ones going on the mission. And Kiroumaru has had a history of dignified and loyal service. He also happens to be the known archenemy of the leader of the rebellion. He also just saved a human from great peril while risking being torn apart on sight by both the queerrats and the humans. And most importantly, he claims to have been to the place before and to be able to navigate through enemy quarters. I think all these combined do a pretty good job explaining why he was allowed the task.

And there have been hints of essentially iron vessels that they power with their psychokinesis for a long while. Their sleds, the boats and such. They also know of the technology humans once held, even if they choose not to use it too much. They have/had electricity, for instance. I must say a submarine that doesn't let them breath is stupid as hell but I suppose if people carry enough power to just throw the water out of canals and such then going underwater for an extended period probably wasn't thought of as necessary. Still dumb though.

Total Casual · 2013-03-05, 21:29

The team producing SSY must've have discovered time travel technology since my twenty minutes of viewing time vanish in what feels like 5 minutes.

Anyway my take on Kiroumaru betraying the humans is like this - I don't think he's interested in betraying the humans per se. Instead I'm guessing he's simply interested in revenge, and if that means sacrificing Saki and her human companions so be it.

Since the bakenezumi are apparently uplifted from naked mole rats, which are the closest mammals come to being hive-minded IRL, I figure they must genuinely care about their compatriots. Maybe Squealer let him go, but I can't believe Kiroumaru would work together with Squealer after that rat's pet fiend slaughtered Kiroumaru's armies.

I'm sort of disappointed that the 'psycho buster' is only anthrax! I was expecting a superweapon to appear based on the episode 21 end preview showing Saki going on a journey, but anticipated some kind of genetically-engineered virus that would target power-users based on genome.

FateAnomaly · 2013-03-06, 02:31

I am unsure of Kiroumaru true intentions. Is it for revenge against Squealer or a scheme to annihilate the humans. Even if he got his revenge, the humans are unlikely to let him live since he knew too much. I am inclined to think that he has indeed joined forces with Squealer.

1 more thing is if Squealer brought the Aki over, wouldn't his forces back home be destroyed?

SagaraSouske · 2013-03-06, 14:15

I don't think Kiroumaru will betray the humans. In fact I think the bio weapon either does not work, or it gets destroyed before they can get their hand on it and it ends up being Kiroumaru that kills the "fiend" child.

NoemiChan · 2013-03-06, 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by FateAnomaly

I Even if he got his revenge, the humans are unlikely to let him live since he knew too much.

If Saki will be the next village leader, that will unlikely happen... I think she will not let that happen...

Quote:

Originally Posted by FateAnomaly

One more thing is if Squealer brought the Aki over, wouldn't his forces back home be destroyed?

Well, most of the inhabitants are either scattered or dead. Besides, do they knew that Yakomaru and the Akki left the island?

VC Matsumoto · 2013-03-07, 04:37

Once the Fiend(Maria's kid) is taken care of, Saki should time travel to 21st century Persia and hire these guys:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/05/world/...tml?hpt=hp_bn2

VC

Raghar · 2013-03-07, 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by VC Matsumoto

Once the Fiend(Maria's kid) is taken care of, Saki should time travel to 21st century Persia and hire these guys:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/05/world/...tml?hpt=hp_bn2

VC

Norwegian rats are lethal. They will not get rid of them and they highly likely already spread into the country.

VC Matsumoto · 2013-03-07, 14:27

Quote:

Norwegian rats are lethal. They will not get rid of them and they highly likely already spread into the country.

I totally agree....but when saw that rat in an underground setting
I imediately thought of the underground mole rat world of Shin Sekai!

VC

ChainLegacy · 2013-03-08, 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Well, I'd say the story is definitely inspired by "War with the Salamanders" by Karel Čapek (not sure about the English title)...

Seems like an interesting book. I wonder does SSY have any element of modern political commentary to it? Hard to say, really. There definitely seems to be some degree of musing on human nature, but I can't detect any specific criticisms on political institutions. By the way, looking up that book made me realize the Chinese Giant Salamander was once spread all the way into Europe in prehistoric times, how interesting...

SeijiSensei · 2013-03-08, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Seems like an interesting book

Karel Čapek also wrote a famous early sci-fi play called R.U.R which is, I believe, the first use of the word "robot" in literature. I remember reading it in a science-fiction anthology back when I was in my teens. The Wikipedia article compares the themes in R.U.R with those in War with the Newts.

Quote:

I can't detect any specific criticisms on political institutions.

In episode seventeen, Yakomaru shows Saki and Satoru the Queerats overthrown queen and claims they have established a representative form of government. We've never really seen any evidence for this beyond his claim, though. I see you posted in that discussion before.

Guido · 2013-03-09, 13:18

We're very close to the end.

In contrast to the last episode, this one turned out slow paced but still interesting. The writers needed to expand upon the knowledge left behind from the ancient civilization so as the survivors would get a means to defend themselves, however, those means still raise more ethical questions?

Evidently, Yakomaru may have read our protagonists' moves and wouldn't suprise me if he and his troops, along with the fiend, went chasing after them to Tokyo. Recall, that Kiromaru disclosed to Saki and co. that his species have already figured out that humans cannot hurt each other, and his colony went to Tokyo for exploration.

Evidently, if Yakomaru and his colony found out a false Minoshiro and made it to work, then not only would have learned how the society of Cantu users came to be but also that there existed an ancient civlization which originally held non-Canti humans and humans with Cantus, and that the former ones developed a bacteriological doomsday weapon to deal with the latter ones.

It doesn't take a genius to predict that he'll be after the weapon, but he didn't know about the exact location. So, what he does is to lie patiently to wait for an opportunity to come around? It happened. Saki and co. ventured in the middle of the night heading towards Tokyo, and Yakomaru figured it out once they broke through the blockade.

From what I learned is that the "psychobuster" is a more refined and tampered strain of the Anthrax virus, and I do not know what hazards and effects will pose to Queerats once exposed to the gas, but on humans whether be non-Cantus, Canti users, and fiends, the viral infection would only lead them all to death.

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2013-03-04, 19:24	Link #104
SeijiSensei AS Oji-kun Join Date: Nov 2006 Age: 74	I thought the transition from Kiroumaru as prisoner to Kiroumaru as guide was pretty implausible. He was locked up in a dungeon because the town's leadership decided he was incredibly dangerous. Yet everyone suddenly agrees he should be released to take part in the most important mission of all, one to protect their town and indeed human civilization itself? I'll just ignore the sudden mysterious appearance of a submarine, one which by the looks of it would have resulted in them all dying from lack of oxygen. I find it hard to accept that Kiroumaru would be in league with Squealer since it would have meant agreeing to the useless slaughter of all his troops. That seems rather out-of-character for him. On top of that I'd imagine he would spend the rest of his days waiting for Squealer to assassinate him. Are there any other Giant Hornets left besides Kiroumaru? __________________ Taking Anime Seriously - Politics by the Numbers - Sports by the Numbers - MAL List - Avatars - Images

2013-03-05, 21:29	Link #107
Total Casual Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Washington DC Metro Area	The team producing SSY must've have discovered time travel technology since my twenty minutes of viewing time vanish in what feels like 5 minutes. Anyway my take on Kiroumaru betraying the humans is like this - I don't think he's interested in betraying the humans per se. Instead I'm guessing he's simply interested in revenge, and if that means sacrificing Saki and her human companions so be it. Since the bakenezumi are apparently uplifted from naked mole rats, which are the closest mammals come to being hive-minded IRL, I figure they must genuinely care about their compatriots. Maybe Squealer let him go, but I can't believe Kiroumaru would work together with Squealer after that rat's pet fiend slaughtered Kiroumaru's armies. I'm sort of disappointed that the 'psycho buster' is only anthrax! I was expecting a superweapon to appear based on the episode 21 end preview showing Saki going on a journey, but anticipated some kind of genetically-engineered virus that would target power-users based on genome. Last edited by Total Casual; 2013-03-05 at 21:33. Reason: add a bit more

2013-03-06, 14:15	Link #109
SagaraSouske Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	I don't think Kiroumaru will betray the humans. In fact I think the bio weapon either does not work, or it gets destroyed before they can get their hand on it and it ends up being Kiroumaru that kills the "fiend" child. __________________

2013-03-04, 16:25	Link #102
Ringil Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011	It's really... uhh suspicious why Kiroumaru was at Tokyo before. Seems like the most probable reason is that he was looking for the Pyschobuster, which makes it seem much more plausible he's a co-culprit with Squealer. Despite how much I want to believe that Kiroumaru is really a good guy, he seems pretty suspicious...

2013-03-04, 16:41	Link #103
ChronoReverse Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	Yeah, I always wondered what they're hinting at with his grin/snarl which the camera focuses on a lot. I suppose we'll find out soon.

2013-03-06, 02:31	Link #108
FateAnomaly Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007	I am unsure of Kiroumaru true intentions. Is it for revenge against Squealer or a scheme to annihilate the humans. Even if he got his revenge, the humans are unlikely to let him live since he knew too much. I am inclined to think that he has indeed joined forces with Squealer. 1 more thing is if Squealer brought the Aki over, wouldn't his forces back home be destroyed?

2013-03-07, 04:37	Link #111
VC Matsumoto Anime Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA	Once the Fiend(Maria's kid) is taken care of, Saki should time travel to 21st century Persia and hire these guys: http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/05/world/...tml?hpt=hp_bn2 VC

2013-03-09, 13:18	Link #116
Guido Snobby Gentleman Join Date: May 2004 Location: Monterrey, México Age: 43	We're very close to the end. In contrast to the last episode, this one turned out slow paced but still interesting. The writers needed to expand upon the knowledge left behind from the ancient civilization so as the survivors would get a means to defend themselves, however, those means still raise more ethical questions? Evidently, Yakomaru may have read our protagonists' moves and wouldn't suprise me if he and his troops, along with the fiend, went chasing after them to Tokyo. Recall, that Kiromaru disclosed to Saki and co. that his species have already figured out that humans cannot hurt each other, and his colony went to Tokyo for exploration. Evidently, if Yakomaru and his colony found out a false Minoshiro and made it to work, then not only would have learned how the society of Cantu users came to be but also that there existed an ancient civlization which originally held non-Canti humans and humans with Cantus, and that the former ones developed a bacteriological doomsday weapon to deal with the latter ones. It doesn't take a genius to predict that he'll be after the weapon, but he didn't know about the exact location. So, what he does is to lie patiently to wait for an opportunity to come around? It happened. Saki and co. ventured in the middle of the night heading towards Tokyo, and Yakomaru figured it out once they broke through the blockade. From what I learned is that the "psychobuster" is a more refined and tampered strain of the Anthrax virus, and I do not know what hazards and effects will pose to Queerats once exposed to the gas, but on humans whether be non-Cantus, Canti users, and fiends, the viral infection would only lead them all to death.