2014-02-25, 13:26
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Link #741 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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What I can see is missing are Eva, Rudolf and Kinzo's wife's room. Jessica might have inherited the one of Rudolf or Eva but Battler and Jessica knew their grandmother so I can guess she was still alive at the time Krauss married Natsuhi... and likely didn't sleep in Kinzo's study. Eva married after Krauss and so for a while she probably was also living with Natsuhi. I'm not sure about Rudolf, if he left the house prior getting married but anyway it seems there was a time in which Krauss, Natsuhi, Rosa, Eva, Kinzo's wife and possibly Rudolf all lived together. Even if Jessica might have taken... let's say Eva's room, some ex-rooms... unless the guestrooms were their homes in the past? Also... is Krauss' bed in his study as he seems to have his own bedroom? Oh, and I wonder about Lion's room... even if you probably doesn't need to make it... would it be the honoured guestroom? Said this I really love those maps of yours so keep up the good work! |
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2014-02-25, 15:20
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Link #742 | |
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BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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However, I've always figured Natsuhi's room is the "master bedroom" so to speak, and that it contains a larger bed based on the pictures. As to why Krauss doesn't sleep with his wife, there are many reasons ranging from wildly speculative (marital difficulties) to considerate (Natsuhi's headaches are such an issue that Krauss sleeps elsewhere so as not to bother her). One complication to this is that Natsuhi and Kinzo's wife existed at the same time period so at least one of them must have had a separate room. Even so, Natsuhi's room appears to be the room with the largest bed and the nicest furnishings, so I take that to mean that Kinzo's wife relocated to a different room around the same time Kinzo started living entirely in his own suite, or maybe sooner than that. Rooms could also have been reconfigured over time, though. Given the age differences it's entirely possible that, for example, "Rosa's room" was Krauss or Eva's room, and the same would be the case for Jessica's room (although we know from the ep8 manga that Rosa's room still exists unused, which means it isn't Jessica's room; in fact, given Rosa and Jessica's ages, Rosa may well have still been living in the mansion when Jessica was born). If Jessica's room used to be Eva's, and Rosa's Krauss's old room, and so forth, those older rooms would simply no longer exist. And yes, Lion's room would almost certainly be the VIP room. Either that or, since Lion came first, his room would be Jessica's room and Jessica's room would be the VIP room (or some other room reconfigured for her). I was also under the impression that there's not really anything on the top floor other than the study. The PS3 backgrounds do support some other rooms existing, but I don't see what they'd be other than that unused conference room in the PC files.
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2014-02-26, 05:33
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Link #743 | |||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Germany
Age: 39
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It's a question if they actually went to Nijima High (like Jessica) but since it was already established in 1949 it's quite likely they did. We know that when Rosa was in middle school in 1967 (when she met Beatrice II) she was still living on the island and her mother (Kinzo's wife) was also there, since she mentioned getting into a fight with her being the cause of her running away into the forest. There's no direct mention of Krauss and Natsuhi living on the island at that point. Considering that they seemed to travel before Jessica was born they might have been away, but it could also be that they only relocated to the island after Jessica was born and Kinzo's health started actively deteriorating. Quote:
There is this point that Rosa makes that her siblings bullied her, which she now passes on to Maria, but for that they wouldn't need to actually live together. Quote:
Considering that there were originally plans to have Natsuhi have an affair with Gohda, I'd say the marriage wasn't as rosy as it ended up being portrayed. Granted, the way they ended up being depicted it showed a wildly disparate image of the Krauss couple. |
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2014-02-26, 06:59
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Link #744 | |
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Detective, Witch, Pirate.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
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 Seriously, this is the first time I hear of this! Though, yeah, I can see some hints in early EP1 now that you mention it...... This sort of explains well.... why Gohda even existed in the first place. Hmm.... this would make for a very interesting fanfic, no? As for the separate bedrooms, well, they've been sort of married for... over a decade, right? I'm not very sure, but it wouldn't be unlikely for couples that have been together for so long to face certain problems like that. But yes, I agree, in the end, Ryukishi's bad habit of redeeming all his characters with no apparent reason at all ended up painting a way too dreamy picture of their marriage than what was initially implied, at least from EP1 and 2. Which only strengthens the impression that Umineko's first "draft" was vastly different (and possibly better?) than what ultimately ended up in the novel.
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2014-02-26, 08:30
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Link #745 | |||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Germany
Age: 39
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A good old-fashioned affair would have actually strengthened her character...and if you want to give it a good coating of "it's not as bad as it looks" just make Krauss gay and make it an arrangement between the two. It would actually explain why they weren't able to get a child right away without something being wrong biologically. Hey...it's not like you couldn't write a forgery like that 
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2014-02-26, 09:24
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Link #746 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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If Rosa's as young as we think she is (early to mid 30s), then I think she actually would have been living on the island at the time Jessica was born, but I don't know that her siblings would have ever been living there at the same time she was. As has been said, they don't need to have lived there to bully her, but it is still a bit odd as it implies Rudolf is somehow just young enough to have been around, but I'm not sure the ages actually work out that way. Krauss and Eva at the very least would've been in college by the time Rosa was even born.
In a way, this is a bit disappointing, because it would've allowed for some interesting contrast between Rosa and Jessica, who both essentially grew up in heavy isolation on the same island under the same sort of weird family circumstances, but ended up turning out quite differently. It'd also be interesting if Rosa perhaps had some degree of sympathy for Jessica or understanding of how much it sucks to be stuck where she is (or resentment that Jessica seems better-adjusted than she was), but I guess they never really got any story time together since Rosa was pretty much dead every time Jessica was alive or one or the other died fairly early on.
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2014-02-26, 10:42
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Link #747 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
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I don't think an affair would've made sense given how Natsuhi's character ended up developing. She tried to cope by fully devoting herself to the honour of the Ushiromiya family, and an affair would kindof contradict that. That said, I don't think her marriage to Krauss was all that fantastic - even though they ultimately loved each other they seemed fundamentally incompatible, and were always oddly distant even when alone.
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2014-02-26, 16:30
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Link #748 | ||
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Detective, Witch, Pirate.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
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  And guess what, this is all canon, so now we've got ourselves a name XD No, but in all seriousness, I think a Natsuhda fanfic would be very interesting to read. Taking into account that Ryukishi used all the cliche motiffs of old-fashioned mystery (old mansion, despotic father, huge inherintance, money problems, sibling rivalry, etc etc), adultery seems like a pretty plausible theme that could very well be motive for murder. And I think it might have made for a better development for both Natsuhi and Gohda as characters. But I suppose we'll never know (do I smell cat box?) Quote:
That seems to be the case with several themes of EP1 that suddenly vanish completely in later episodes, like Kumsawa watching everything from the shadows, (oh, the hours I spent trying to figure what I was supposed to make of all that...). It's interesting to ponder about what might have been.
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2014-02-27, 08:56
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Link #749 | ||||
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Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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The possibility of grandmother Ushiromiya's room still remaining in the house at the time of the conference might work, though, so I could use that. It could be interesting to have characters go into that room, given how little attention she gets in canon. I forget how long ago it was that she was supposed to have died. It's likely that if Natsuhi's room is the master bedroom, grandmother Ushiromiya would have been the former occupant of the room, but maybe she moved out of it when Krauss and Natsuhi got married, or if not, she might have had a personal sitting room or something. Quote:
On the other hand, if grandmother Ushiromiya didn't sleep in the same room as Kinzo, that could set a precedent for separate bedrooms that Natsuhi and Krauss might follow. And Natsuhi seems like someone who would really need a little of her own space. Speaking of the abandoned Gohda-Natsuhi affair plot, I find it rather interesting. Krauss and Natsuhi in the actual story line definitely love each other, but they don't seem to understand each other properly. Both of them have bad luck in that regard. People have pointed out that Natsuhi and Jessica are also not on the same wavelength. Natsuhi's such an isolated character. It's easy to imagine that Natsuhi could fall for Gohda, a person she personally selected to work on the island and who is the only servant not involved in the Ushiromiya family shenanigans. He does treat her with respect and feels grateful towards her for hiring him. Though, an affair between those two would have been mutually exclusive with the direction that the series took with Natsuhi's character later on. Lion's not present in my story (at least, not on the gameboard level), so the issue of his room isn't important for the map, though I suppose it would make perfect sense if the honoured guest room was his in a world where he was Natsuhi and Krauss' accepted child. Quote:
On a different but still image-related note, one of the custom sprites I've been working on is finally not looking completely hideous. It's still not 100% finished (esp. the hair, hand, collar and some of the shading), but it's not a big spoiler for my game. Spoiler for WIP sprite:
Last edited by GoldenLand; 2014-02-27 at 09:44. |
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2014-02-27, 10:39
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Link #750 | |
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Detective, Witch, Pirate.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
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My only objetion is that he doesn't have blue hair, but then again I may be biased  (just joking, Virgilia's hair color seems like a much more reasonable choise)Virgilius always intrigued me, because he kind of symbolizes an ultimate hard level EP3 that we'll never get to see (and going by Beato's words in EP8, perhaps Ryukishi's personal favorite). Plus he is the basis for Erika, so I really look forward to seeing how you use him in your game.
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2014-02-27, 11:12
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Link #751 | |
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Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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 Although I too recognise the immense glory that is blue hair, I picked the Virgilia hair colour over the Erika hair fairly early on, because I'm likely to borrow a higher proportion of Erika expressions for him than Virgilia ones and I want him to have elements of both of them in the design. I was planning to base the colour scheme for the clothes on Erika, but when it came down to it and I was looking through my test images, that one didn't look too great in practice. Virgilia's hair colour didn't look right with Erika's clothes' colour scheme (and the poor non-Umineko fan I'm testing things out on said the Erika clothes scheme for Virgilius was the worst one of the bunch). So I ended up just picking the scheme I thought looked best.
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2014-02-27, 11:56
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Link #752 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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The only issue I'd say you have with the current color scheme is the vest; the darker jacket doesn't pair too well with a navy blue vest. Darks contrast best with lights, which is why the white shirt and white gloves work so well (the same basic design principle as applied to Ronove's outfit, really). Now obviously that means you have a situation where the vest is directly standing out against both the dark jacket and the light shirt, so it has to contrast with both. A darker color like a blue contrasts with the shirt but not with the jacket.
The best way I can think of to approach this is to use a complementary color scheme. The black/very dark blue of the jacket happens to complement with a color that's already present in Virgilia's outfit: the orange-tan color of her sash. In this case though, due to the tie and the buttons, it might be better to desaturate the orange and go with either a washed-out yellow or tan or a medium-dark green. In other news, I'm apparently so good at slipping references into Redaction that the latest TIP segment contains one multiple sources have identified that I didn't actually ever intend to exist in there. But as Joyce once said, a man of genius makes no mistakes. That he'll admit to. I may have added that second part.
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2014-02-27, 12:25
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Link #753 | |
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Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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Spoiler for Sprite WIP alt waistcoats:
Those do have something to be said for them. (Roughness of the colour fill aside; I could do it properly later.) Virgilia's sash colour in the first is bright and of course matches Virgilia, which is a plus, but is a bit too bright on its own. The paleish brown colour or some variant thereof one there is more sedate and works better with the buttons, and the green one looks pretty and goes well with the other parts of the scheme. The pale brown might be the best of the three there. I do like the blue, so I may yet go "eh, never mind the contrast there" and keep it, but the others are definitely options. The waistcoat is the easiest of the colours to change, so I expect what I'll do is wait til I've got the final version of the rest of the sprite, make a bunch of versions with different waistcoats, test a couple of them out in gameplay and see which I like best there. Congratulations on the accidental references! (It's a better thing to have happen by accident than it is to accidentally write characters who conflict with and are superior to your ideals as expressed in interviews *cough*Ryukishi*cough*)
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2014-02-27, 12:41
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Link #754 |
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BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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The orange and brown are a bit too bright but desaturating the brownish-tan one and darkening it slightly would in my mind's eye probably look best. I also like the green over the navy, because while it still intermingles a bit with the jacket if I stop and look at it for a second I can clearly distinguish them. Although the green waistcoat matches Nanjo's, which may be an unintended color match reference that should be avoided.
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2014-02-27, 12:48
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Link #755 |
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Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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Ahahaha, an unintentional Nanjo reference would be unfortunate. Yes, I think a tweaked version of the brown one would work the best there and might set off the outfit nicely. Thanks for the help, that might turn out to be a big improvement on the sprite.
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2014-02-27, 16:12
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Link #756 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Okay, I did some researches so:
When Rosa met Beatrice (1967) Natsuhi was on the island as short after (or short before, it really depend if Kinzo took Lion away from Beatrice before she died or he did it after it) Lion was entrusted to Natsuhi's care. Jessica had birth a year after Lion and since Rosa is pretty young, this likely implies she hadn't left the island yet. Battler remembers his grandmother and so, as he had birth in 1968 she should have been alive when Beatrice died. George had birth in 1963, after Eva married Hideyoshi, though Eva married Hideyoshi after Natsuhi was already married with Krauss and couldn't conceive fast enough because she used that as a motive to persuade Kinzo to accept Hideyoshi in his family, instead than her leaving her own (Eva mentions that prior to marrying Hideyoshi she asked him if he was okay with becoming an Ushiromiya and as he said so they worked to have Kinzo accepting him into the family) so by 1963 Eva was already out of the house. Prior to it though she likely had her own room as in the manga is shown that Rosa's room was her own from whens he was a child and it's unlikely Eva had one whom she shared with Rudolf or Krauss. Krauss and Natsuhi married in 1956. Rudolf married Asumu at the end of 1967 or at the beginning of 1968 (Battler is born in July, meaning if he'd born after 9 months he was conceived in November... give Asumu time to realize she was pregnant and for Rudolf to legalize her position). Of course it's possible by then he had already moved out of the house but there was a time in which he lived on Rokkenjima as the legend of the wolves haunting the forest switched into the legend of the witch because he wasn't afraid of wolves. Of course he might have shared his room with Krauss... though I'm not sure if they would have Krauss, the supposed future heir of the house, share his room with Rudolf. But well, there might not have been another room. Of course, if Rudolf had already left the family the the time Natsuhi joined Natsuhi might have inherited Rudolf's room. Likely they didn't hand her Eva's room if Eva was merely out studying at the time Natsuhi got married with Krauss, as Eva would come back home here and there and Natsuhi has a lower ranking than Eva. So, even removing Rudolf from the count (by assuming he either slept with Krauss or that his room was handed to Natsuhi) in 1967 we've: the study for Kinzo the room for Kinzo's wife the room for Krauss the room for Natsuhi the room for Eva (empty as Eva has already married but existing as for a while Natsuhi and Eva lived in Rokkenjima at the same time) the room for Rosa Eva's room might have been handed to Jessica though, which would be interesting because, according to your scheme we could assume that after Krauss' room there was Eva's old room (now Jessica's) and then Rudolf's (now Natsuhi's) and then Rosa's so all the rooms would be ordered according to ranking... which would make the gold ingot room Kinzo's wife's old room? Just suggesting. |
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2014-02-27, 18:46
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Link #757 | |
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Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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 Yes, there could have been five bedrooms (not counting Kinzo) at that point in time, assigned to Krauss, Natsuhi, Eva, Rosa, and grandmother Ushiromiya. With the rooms later on for Natsuhi, Jessica, Krauss' study, the storage room that used to be Rosa's room, and the two ordinary guest rooms on that floor, there should be five rooms there which could have met that need, not counting the possibility of the guest rooms on the ground floor being used for something else. That assumes that Krauss' study used to be a different room, though, maybe his old bedroom. The amount gets thrown off otherwise. The gold room wouldn't work as a bedroom, since from what I can gather from the VN it hasn't got any windows. Its placement on that floor of the map is pretty arbitrary really. That's an interesting point about the possibility of making the rooms at that time match the ranking. Counting grandmother Ushiromiya in there...let's see. The ranking would have to go Krauss. Eva. Rudolf, Rosa, grandmother Ushiromiya, Natsuhi, right? I wouldn't put it past the Ushiromiya family to do something silly with ranking like that. You're right, it could match. The order could have gone - Krauss (in what would be Natsuhi's room/his and Natsuhi's room later) - Eva (in what would be Jessica's room) - Rudolf (in what would be Krauss' study/guest room 1/guest room 2) - Rosa (etc, in her own room) The only one that wouldn't match would be grandmother Ushiromiya, who would break that pattern on my map by having either the ??? area or the remaining guest room. That is, if she had a room on the same floor rather than on a different floor. If current!Natsuhi's bedroom is the master bedroom of the floor, and maybe it used to belong to grandmother Ushiromiya rather than being given to the married couple, I wonder if maybe Natsuhi was assigned a guest room for herself (either on that floor or on the ground floor) when she first moved into the family. That could be alienating. If Krauss already had his study and she wasn't sharing a room with him, there might not have been space on that floor for her on that floor. And...huh, there's something I overlooked. There would probably have been a nursery room for Lion at some point, even despite the brevity of the situation. I suppose it could have been in several places, and since he was only there for a short while it's not as if they would have had decorators handy, so there wouldn't be much of a sign of it ever having been there. |
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2014-02-27, 19:15
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Link #759 |
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Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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Aha! That would be perfect. I didn't even think of checking the files for unused rooms, but they're the best option for filling in gaps in the maps. I'll have to use that. That room has the rocking chair, a desk, a nice rug, and is well lit. It could be a very useful room, either as a nursery or a study. If I change around a few rooms I could potentially make it into a corner room, too, which might suit it better.
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