AnimeSuki Forums

DanielSong39 · 2007-09-19, 16:57

Hiroki's true feelings

I must admit I missed it the first time around, but it became much more clear to me during a rewatch. Let's not forget, Hiroki himself expresses his true feeling quite clearly in episode 20, when he openly admits that Yanagi would be better for Kiri - which is also consistent with his rejection of Kiri in high school.

Now, the show also makes it clear that Hiroki had a crush on Kiri when they were in high school, and that the crush hasn't completely subsided - which is the source for much of the confusion. But I think Hiroki is also able to distinguish between crush and true love. Even while he was attracted to Kiri, he was able to observe Yanagi's dedication and determination toward her... and realized that he fell short. This is probably why he never really fights Yanagi for Kiri's hand; he would be genuinely be happy for them if those two got together. It is only after Kiri rejects Yanagi that he opens himself up to the possibility of a long-term relationship - to see if they can build on what's there.

Alas, it never happens, as Hiroki discovers his love for Elis, and for art - and chooses walk on the path he wanted all along. And meanwhile, Yanagi puts his career on hiatus to pursue Kiri once more... will this lead to a happy ending for everyone involved? One can only hope.

strategos · 2007-10-21, 20:23

Hmmm, am insteresed in this anime.
Which one should I see first?
ova of the series?

Saleh · 2007-10-21, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by strategos

Hmmm, am insteresed in this anime.
Which one should I see first?
ova of the series?

You can watch canvas 2 directly. Watching Canvas -A Motif Sepia Coloured- is not necessary to understand canvas 2.

Skyfall · 2007-10-22, 02:07

Yep - the two share no connection at all, save for having an art theme in both of them. (And some characters having a brief cameo). Forget the OVA and go directly for the series.

Aoie_Emesai · 2007-10-22, 02:16

All of the Canvas series don't share a common storyline or theme other than the "Painting" part of it. Oh yeah, the cute Cameo are good too though ^_^

strategos · 2007-10-22, 11:52

WoW Thnks for the info^^!
what type of gener this anime? ecchi?

Saleh · 2007-10-22, 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by strategos

WoW Thnks for the info^^!
what type of gener this anime? ecchi?

Its a Romance/Drama anime for most parts. If you were looking for Romance/Ecchi/Comedy anime then I would recommend Goshuushou-sama Ninomiya-kun (ongoing series) for this season.

taelrak · 2007-12-01, 19:04

Quote:

He managed to keep his hands off his students during the whole series.

You know, in most societies, this would be considered the norm and not something to be proud of. It's only really an issue if someone doesn't manage this (or at the least, hopefully this would be so).

I like the character of Ellis though - she really shows growth.

Can't compare to Hagino though! She's awesome.

Enelass · 2007-12-05, 17:16

Ok so i just got done watching Canvas 2. I enjoyed watching it up until the last episode. But heres the deal, i dont have a problem with the hole cousin-cousin relation ship. that doesnt get on my nerves, hell i loved da capo. My problem lies in the fact that there was no build up in there relationship. Yes there were some under lining sub-textual and body language (poorly conveyed i might add) that may have hinted that her had some feelings for her. but over all he treated Else like daughter, not even a sister. they even showed clips of them as kids where he was treating her like a kid. Kiri on the other hand was a whole different story. all feels that he had, via 3rd party or strait from himself, was for her. i was very disappointed in the in ending of this anime. anyone else agree?

Aoie_Emesai · 2007-12-05, 17:29

You can go agree or disagree with all of your opinioned guesses here

Vexx · 2007-12-05, 17:39

I'd just suggest you go over this entire thread (okay.. at least the last 20 pages or so?) and you'll see every possible point of view discussed to death by extremely articulate people (and also a few of the usual emotional shouting thugs).

This post was brought to you by the avatar of Tomoko .... fear her plushy toys.

(edit: just noticed your link, Aoie .... heh... hehehe

)

***relentlessflame*** · 2007-12-05, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enelass

i was very disappointed in the in ending of this anime. anyone else agree?

See the whole rest of the thread.

This was a topic of discussion for a long time. At first glance, most viewers seemed to be surprised by the ending and thought it came out of left field. Upon rewatch, some conceeded that they did indeed lay the groundwork for it (plus or minus the final closing scene, perhaps), but you had to read in between the lines.

Really, the hints about Hiroki's true feelings lie entirely in the whole "painter vs. artist" thing. The show kept dropping hints that he was living a lie (Hagino's story being the most memorable hint of all), but the important part was that Elis and Kiri went part and parcel with that dilemma. If he chose Kiri, that meant he chose to live as a teacher; if he chose to be an artist, that meant he chose Elis (and vice-versa on both accounts). Right, wrong, or indifferent, that's the way it was setup in the show. Essentially, Hiroki spent the whole show in denial about his feelings (which is why you say that he didn't show any feelings for Elis), and it wasn't until the very last episode that he figured out who he really loved (and what he really wanted to do with his life). If you took him seriously (and ignored the hints that he was in denial), you could say that he was still in love with Kiri. But in fact, he wanted to still be in love with Kiri just as he was trying to convince himself that he wanted to spend his life as a teacher -- both were actually lies (as shown in the final episode).

Anyway, that's just my own opinion, of course. I really recommend that you read back through the thread to see all the discussion that occurred.

Edit: See also what Aoie_Emesai and Vexx said -- except I decided to repost my opinion anyway, perhaps foolishly...

Vexx · 2007-12-05, 17:46

I've come closer to relentlessflame's interpretation over the months... though I still think the writers and animators came a few dots short of conveying what he describes as well as they might have.

However, the post above me seems to describe what the writer/animators were trying to convey - how well they did it? <shrug>

(he and I spent a fair amount of time hurling sturgeon chunks at each other over it

)

AvatarST · 2007-12-05, 17:52

I still find it odd that we had that scene of Hiroki daydreaming about Kiri. It really was unnecessary if they wanted to imply that he was forcing himself.

The show itself was a good watch anyway and I loved most of the characters, especially Ellis and Tomoko. But yeah, some stuff was weird.

***relentlessflame*** · 2007-12-05, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

However, the post above me seems to describe what the writer/animators were trying to convey - how well they did it? <shrug>

A very fair point. From the general reaction out there, I'd have to concede that they probably needed to drop a few more hints. The symbolism was a little too obscure for its own good; even though I eat that stuff up, a good show provides cues that cover the full spectrum of viewers. Still though, it gives you a reason to rewatch the show; when you know where it's going, the path they took to get there becomes clearer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

(he and I spent a fair amount of time hurling sturgeon chunks at each other over it

)

But it was all in good fun.

Skyfall · 2007-12-05, 18:17

I'd agree with relentless on this one, as it is pretty much my own view as well. Hiroki was basically forcing himself to live a lie ... one that was simply convenient. He was trying to force himself to believe that being a teacher was not bad, just like that he still liked Kiri. But did he really like her, or was it a ghost of the past ? I don't think he himself really knew the answer, hence why it seemed his relationship with Kiri went nowhere, and he was just drifting along.

And then it all hit - Elis was going away for good this time, and he was forced to actually think about the issue. Notice the shocked reaction when Elis says "can i say this for the last time?" ... he even repeats "last time ...?" - this is where it must have hit him - he can't just idly float forward anymore. Life was changing around him, and he had to decide whether to keep floating towards what he (maybe) was somewhat satisfied with, or try and grasp the future he actually wished for.

I can see why some people would be surprised about the ending - on surface it indeed seemed to go in the direction of Kiri, but somewhere deep down that was not the intended destination. Granted it probably helps to watch the show in one sitting (opposite to one episode/week, which is how a lot of people followed it i assume), and a rewatch can help you connect some missing dots, once you actually know what to look for. Does this mean the writers should have hinted more strongly at it ? Maybe, but the justifications are there, along with some clues (as relentless said - Hagino and her novel being the most obvious one ... A guy, his sister-like-person, and a childhood friend, but the protagonist not being true to his feelings).

In the end Hiroki had to choose a path in his life as well, and the two girls represented each path to a good degree. He ended up grasping for his true calling - to be a painter, and Elis was the reason that made him overcome his inner demons and take up the brush again.

And i can still say that Canvas 2 remains as the top visual novel adoption in my books. And i am ready to defend this notion by carrying a torch thats blazing in relentless flames

Optionally, i am sure Vexx is rather pleased by the fact there is a Tomoko route as well in the PS 2 / DvD version

Enelass · 2007-12-05, 18:33

Quote:

It was Hiroki that almost kissed Kiri in episode 8 (i think), and we clearly see that he still has a crush for her, from the very beginning of the series. And also he doesn't gives a damn for Elise feelings (episode 8/9/10).

I highly agree here.

I posted something on this earlier and this was my main focus. (i think it got lost in the mass of posts here though =P)

AvatarST · 2007-12-05, 18:42

Oh Canvas 2 was definitely excellent overall. I dunno if best, but certainly up there.

Deathkillz · 2007-12-05, 18:47

well, I guess we can all mourn for kiri seen as she has waited half of her life for nothing

Indeed I was a surprised at the end conclusion (or would have been if "someone" hadn't spoilered the ending for me

) - but it wasn't all that sudden iirc...the painting was all the hints we need -

He loved her but that was in the past, feelings get diluted overtime *sigh*

DanielSong39 · 2007-12-05, 19:06

The other thing that many viewers missed was that Hiroki was 50-50 when it came to Kiri. Though he was rather fond of her, there was always something holding him back - hence, he was always willing to hand Kiri over to Yanagi, if she was willing to accept him.

Hiroki says it best in Episode 20: "I think Yanagi would be better for her..." That's his true feelings, in a nutshell.

As for the whole plagiarism/non-plagiarism fiasco - I believe the best way for Yanagi to make amends is to embrace the path of a teacher and take good care of Kiri. Based on the credits, I'd say he's off to a good start...

2007-10-21, 20:23	Link #1202
strategos Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	Hmmm, am insteresed in this anime. Which one should I see first? ova of the series? __________________ Support your favorite Anime/Manga when they are available at you region!!!! http://www.viz.com/apps http://www.hulu.com

2007-10-22, 02:07	Link #1204
Skyfall Lost in my dreams... Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 37	Yep - the two share no connection at all, save for having an art theme in both of them. (And some characters having a brief cameo). Forget the OVA and go directly for the series. __________________

2007-10-22, 02:16	Link #1205
Aoie_Emesai ♪♫ Maya Iincho ♩♬ Artist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Unnecessary Age: 37	All of the Canvas series don't share a common storyline or theme other than the "Painting" part of it. Oh yeah, the cute Cameo are good too though ^_^ __________________ How to Give / Receive Criticism on your work / Like to draw? Come join Artists Alike Visit my Deviantart Or Blog ~A Child should always surpass his/her parent, Remember.

2007-10-22, 11:52	Link #1206
strategos Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	WoW Thnks for the info^^! what type of gener this anime? ecchi? __________________ Support your favorite Anime/Manga when they are available at you region!!!! http://www.viz.com/apps http://www.hulu.com

2007-12-05, 17:16	Link #1209
Enelass Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007	Canvas 2???? >.< (spoiler warning) Ok so i just got done watching Canvas 2. I enjoyed watching it up until the last episode. But heres the deal, i dont have a problem with the hole cousin-cousin relation ship. that doesnt get on my nerves, hell i loved da capo. My problem lies in the fact that there was no build up in there relationship. Yes there were some under lining sub-textual and body language (poorly conveyed i might add) that may have hinted that her had some feelings for her. but over all he treated Else like daughter, not even a sister. they even showed clips of them as kids where he was treating her like a kid. Kiri on the other hand was a whole different story. all feels that he had, via 3rd party or strait from himself, was for her. i was very disappointed in the in ending of this anime. anyone else agree?

2007-09-19, 16:57	Link #1201
DanielSong39 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Hiroki's true feelings I must admit I missed it the first time around, but it became much more clear to me during a rewatch. Let's not forget, Hiroki himself expresses his true feeling quite clearly in episode 20, when he openly admits that Yanagi would be better for Kiri - which is also consistent with his rejection of Kiri in high school. Now, the show also makes it clear that Hiroki had a crush on Kiri when they were in high school, and that the crush hasn't completely subsided - which is the source for much of the confusion. But I think Hiroki is also able to distinguish between crush and true love. Even while he was attracted to Kiri, he was able to observe Yanagi's dedication and determination toward her... and realized that he fell short. This is probably why he never really fights Yanagi for Kiri's hand; he would be genuinely be happy for them if those two got together. It is only after Kiri rejects Yanagi that he opens himself up to the possibility of a long-term relationship - to see if they can build on what's there. Alas, it never happens, as Hiroki discovers his love for Elis, and for art - and chooses walk on the path he wanted all along. And meanwhile, Yanagi puts his career on hiatus to pursue Kiri once more... will this lead to a happy ending for everyone involved? One can only hope.

2007-12-05, 17:29	Link #1210
Aoie_Emesai ♪♫ Maya Iincho ♩♬ Artist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Unnecessary Age: 37	You can go agree or disagree with all of your opinioned guesses here __________________ How to Give / Receive Criticism on your work / Like to draw? Come join Artists Alike Visit my Deviantart Or Blog ~A Child should always surpass his/her parent, Remember.

2007-12-05, 17:39	Link #1211
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	I'd just suggest you go over this entire thread (okay.. at least the last 20 pages or so?) and you'll see every possible point of view discussed to death by extremely articulate people (and also a few of the usual emotional shouting thugs). This post was brought to you by the avatar of Tomoko .... fear her plushy toys. (edit: just noticed your link, Aoie .... heh... hehehe ) __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2007-12-05, 17:46	Link #1213
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	I've come closer to relentlessflame's interpretation over the months... though I still think the writers and animators came a few dots short of conveying what he describes as well as they might have. However, the post above me seems to describe what the writer/animators were trying to convey - how well they did it? <shrug> (he and I spent a fair amount of time hurling sturgeon chunks at each other over it ) __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2007-12-05, 17:52	Link #1214
AvatarST ◕‿‿◕ Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Argentina Age: 39	I still find it odd that we had that scene of Hiroki daydreaming about Kiri. It really was unnecessary if they wanted to imply that he was forcing himself. The show itself was a good watch anyway and I loved most of the characters, especially Ellis and Tomoko. But yeah, some stuff was weird. __________________

2007-12-05, 18:17	Link #1216
Skyfall Lost in my dreams... Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 37	I'd agree with relentless on this one, as it is pretty much my own view as well. Hiroki was basically forcing himself to live a lie ... one that was simply convenient. He was trying to force himself to believe that being a teacher was not bad, just like that he still liked Kiri. But did he really like her, or was it a ghost of the past ? I don't think he himself really knew the answer, hence why it seemed his relationship with Kiri went nowhere, and he was just drifting along. And then it all hit - Elis was going away for good this time, and he was forced to actually think about the issue. Notice the shocked reaction when Elis says "can i say this for the last time?" ... he even repeats "last time ...?" - this is where it must have hit him - he can't just idly float forward anymore. Life was changing around him, and he had to decide whether to keep floating towards what he (maybe) was somewhat satisfied with, or try and grasp the future he actually wished for. I can see why some people would be surprised about the ending - on surface it indeed seemed to go in the direction of Kiri, but somewhere deep down that was not the intended destination. Granted it probably helps to watch the show in one sitting (opposite to one episode/week, which is how a lot of people followed it i assume), and a rewatch can help you connect some missing dots, once you actually know what to look for. Does this mean the writers should have hinted more strongly at it ? Maybe, but the justifications are there, along with some clues (as relentless said - Hagino and her novel being the most obvious one ... A guy, his sister-like-person, and a childhood friend, but the protagonist not being true to his feelings). In the end Hiroki had to choose a path in his life as well, and the two girls represented each path to a good degree. He ended up grasping for his true calling - to be a painter, and Elis was the reason that made him overcome his inner demons and take up the brush again. And i can still say that Canvas 2 remains as the top visual novel adoption in my books. And i am ready to defend this notion by carrying a torch thats blazing in relentless flames Optionally, i am sure Vexx is rather pleased by the fact there is a Tomoko route as well in the PS 2 / DvD version __________________

2007-12-05, 18:42	Link #1218
AvatarST ◕‿‿◕ Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Argentina Age: 39	Oh Canvas 2 was definitely excellent overall. I dunno if best, but certainly up there. __________________

2007-12-05, 18:47	Link #1219
Deathkillz ~ You're dead ^__^* ~ Graphic Designer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: uk, England Age: 34	well, I guess we can all mourn for kiri seen as she has waited half of her life for nothing Indeed I was a surprised at the end conclusion (or would have been if "someone" hadn't spoilered the ending for me ) - but it wasn't all that sudden iirc...the painting was all the hints we need - He loved her but that was in the past, feelings get diluted overtime sigh __________________ Siggy: hohohohoho~ \| AnimeHistory welcome to our blog ~ \| Summer2009 early review Under the radar series Summer2009: Kanamemo, GA Geijutsuka Art, NEEDLESS

2007-12-05, 19:06	Link #1220
DanielSong39 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	The other thing that many viewers missed was that Hiroki was 50-50 when it came to Kiri. Though he was rather fond of her, there was always something holding him back - hence, he was always willing to hand Kiri over to Yanagi, if she was willing to accept him. Hiroki says it best in Episode 20: "I think Yanagi would be better for her..." That's his true feelings, in a nutshell. As for the whole plagiarism/non-plagiarism fiasco - I believe the best way for Yanagi to make amends is to embrace the path of a teacher and take good care of Kiri. Based on the credits, I'd say he's off to a good start...