Is Naruto worthy of the rank -----?

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

The reason why i think this is because:

When Irukai was testing all genins he captured Moegi (the little academy student, Konohamaru's friend) Naruto freed her.

Just to let you know, thats anime filler.

[Ishe]

I think Neji and possibly Sasuke would have been promoted to Chuunin had Naruto been knocked unconcious at the end of his fight with Neji causing Neji to win it. The whole argument for Shikamaru having the qualifications because he knew when to give up has no application in any of the other fights. In shikamaru's fight, he knew that he had no chance for winning, the best he could do with his power and tactics was what he did. In the other fights, they were much closer. There was no reason for Naruto, Neji, Sasuke, or Gaara to quit, since they all seemed to have a good a chance of winning. Shikamaru was the only one who was completely outclassed by his opponent. There were too many great candidates in the compitition that year that it wouldn't have been right not to promote any of them just because the tournament was interrupted by a full scale attack (especially since some of the candidates played a major role in thwarting the attack). However, they didn't want to promote the "Kyuubi brat", so they came up with an excuse to promote someone, while not promoting him.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by Rurik

Just to let you know, thats anime filler.

Ahhh crap...so the preliminary exam was bullsh!t? Thanks anyway...

[king chopper]

naruto doesnt really posess the abilities of a chuunin but more of a get straight into the action ninja and can be extremely cocky and loud mouthed which add as 2 flaws includin his brainpower of course

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Ishe

I think Neji and possibly Sasuke would have been promoted to Chuunin had Naruto been knocked unconcious at the end of his fight with Neji causing Neji to win it. The whole argument for Shikamaru having the qualifications because he knew when to give up has no application in any of the other fights. In shikamaru's fight, he knew that he had no chance for winning, the best he could do with his power and tactics was what he did. In the other fights, they were much closer. There was no reason for Naruto, Neji, Sasuke, or Gaara to quit, since they all seemed to have a good a chance of winning. Shikamaru was the only one who was completely outclassed by his opponent. There were too many great candidates in the compitition that year that it wouldn't have been right not to promote any of them just because the tournament was interrupted by a full scale attack (especially since some of the candidates played a major role in thwarting the attack). However, they didn't want to promote the "Kyuubi brat", so they came up with an excuse to promote someone, while not promoting him.

Nearly all the candidates demonstrated some reason not to get promoted, even though many were very skilled:

Neji -probably lost his candidacy when he attacked Hinata, a member of his own clan after she couldn't fight back back. That showed a lack of discipline and maturity.

Rock Lee- no one believed that he would be able to live as a ninja after his fight with Gaara

Dosu- dead.

Sasuke- had been given a cursed seal, something the 3rd was aware of and probably knew would lead to problems later on. the 3rd might've also known about his obession with revenge.

Naruto- powerful and clever, but still very immature with no real ability to plan for battles beforehand. Even after seeing Neji fight and having a month to prepare, Naruto went into battle with no real idea of how to fight him. Compare this to Sasuke who trained specifically to expose Gaara's weaknesses.

Temari, Gaara and Kankuro - were not promoted to chuunins for obvious reasons

The only genin I believe had a chance at being promoted to chuunin if he had fought in the final matches would be Shino. I can't think of any reason he wouldn't be selected.

[Suna no tate]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Nearly all the candidates demonstrated some reason not to get promoted, even though many were very skilled:

Neji -probably lost his candidacy when he attacked Hinata, a member of his own clan after she couldn't fight back back. That showed a lack of discipline and maturity.

Rock Lee- no one believed that he would be able to live as a ninja after his fight with Gaara

Dosu- dead.

Sasuke- had been given a cursed seal, something the 3rd was aware of and probably knew would lead to problems later on. the 3rd might've also known about his obession with revenge.

Naruto- powerful and clever, but still very immature with no real ability to plan for battles beforehand. Even after seeing Neji fight and having a month to prepare, Naruto went into battle with no real idea of how to fight him. Compare this to Sasuke who trained specifically to expose Gaara's weaknesses.

Temari, Gaara and Kankuro - were not promoted to chuunins for obvious reasons

The only genin I believe had a chance at being promoted to chuunin if he had fought in the final matches would be Shino. I can't think of any reason he wouldn't be selected.

Where was it said that you have to have good personality traits before becoming a chuunin? For one thing some of those chuunin examiners at the chuunin exam were just downright nasty! Haha! Gaara was positively insane and he was a sure lock to be promoted. Also if that were so, then at the point where everyone was gathered at the tower, the 3rd could have just sent some people home according to the reasons you stated. However he didn't for reasons I will state below.

I don't think the third has anything to do with who becomes a chuunin or not. I think as long as you pass all the obstacles and win your last fight your in. Thats why he asks are you sure you want to enter these guys (referring to team naruto). He asks because once it starts he can't do a thing to help them if it gets too dicey. Anyway, because both the 3rd hokage, and the 4th kazekage were present in the stadium, along with a lot of ninja from around the world, I doubt the 3rd had anything to do with promoting the candidates you listed above. You win your fight. You're a chuunin and in winning your fight everybody sees why. And about Sasuke's curse seal. That probably didn't matter. Anko is a jounin and she has a sometimes raging curse seal. From the way everything was setup, the whole arena, and the guests, and all the ninja villages it makes sense that you win your fight you're a chuunin. The various kage's have no control over that and I doubt the 3rd could say anything about the sand village ninja's statuses. I doubt the kazekage would tell Gaara if he won his fight that he wasn't a chuunin because he was insane. I'm just saying that from the way things were setup, with that whole exhibition, with all the various guests, it seems more like if you win you're a chuunin and there is no afterwards discussion. If the judgement of the kage came into play, he could have eliminated most people earlier but didn't because he couldn't.

However Shika was promoted because though he lost his fight, he showed chuunin like leadership and it'd be waste for him to spend another year as a genin.

So what about naruto? well, he won his fight. And right now he's probably going to replace kakashi as konoha's technique specialist if he masters combining A rank form manipulation with A rank nature manipulation. So why isn't he at least a chuunin? think about it like this. Iruka is a chuunin.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

I don't think the third has anything to do with who becomes a chuunin or not. I think as long as you pass all the obstacles and win your last fight your in.

It was stated that in the last test probrabaly all could be selected as chunin or none, so at the end it really does not matter if you won all your matches, thats will not assure you a Chunin Promotion.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

Where was it said that you have to have good personality traits before becoming a chuunin? For one thing some of those chuunin examiners at the chuunin exam were just downright nasty! Haha! Gaara was positively insane and he was a sure lock to be promoted. Also if that were so, then at the point where everyone was gathered at the tower, the 3rd could have just sent some people home according to the reasons you stated. However he didn't for reasons I will state below.

It's not about being nice. Would you want someone who would fly off the handle and possibly attack a comrade because he had a problem with what they said to be promoted? Neji was arrogant, and judged his opponents without seeing their merits first. That is a dangerous attitude to take into battle. Of course you can't disqualify someone for this, but it can negatively effect the decision

I don't think the third has anything to do with who becomes a chuunin or not. I think as long as you pass all the obstacles and win your last fight your in.

Shikamaru was promoted in part because it was said that the 3rd had such a high opinion of his match. The Hokage seems to have a lot of say in who becomes a chuunin, though he's not the sole determinant. Winning fights doesn't necessarily mean you'll pass, and you can still be promoted even if you lose. This was made very clear. It's more about the impression made on those judging.

Anyway, because both the 3rd hokage, and the 4th kazekage were present in the stadium, along with a lot of ninja from around the world, I doubt the 3rd had anything to do with promoting the candidates you listed above. You win your fight. You're a chuunin and in winning your fight everybody sees why.

Now if this true, how come Naruto's still a genin?

And about Sasuke's curse seal. That probably didn't matter. Anko is a jounin and she has a sometimes raging curse seal.

I didn't say it would prevent him from ever becoming a chuunin, it's just that knowing the emotional affects of the seal and Sasuke's background, The 3rd may have thought it unwise to promote him and give him the added responsibility of being a chuunin at the time.

think about it like this. Iruka is a chuunin.

Yeah, but we don't know how many tries it took him to become a chuunin.

I doubt the kazekage would tell Gaara if he won his fight that he wasn't a chuunin because he was insane.

Gaara couldn't care less about becoming a chuunin.

So what about naruto? well, he won his fight. And right now he's probably going to replace kakashi as konoha's technique specialist if he masters combining A rank form manipulation with A rank nature manipulation. So why isn't he at least a chuunin?

Spoiler:

Technique specialist? Naruto knows 4 or 5 techniques. Kakashi knows over a 1000. When he finishes this technique he will have surpassed Kashashi by combining element manipulation with chakra formation but Naruto's not going to be a technique specialist anytime soon, he doesn't even know about all the forms of chakra manipulation yet. But yes, he's chuunin material by now

[DribCC]

If your going by just raw skill level theres no question Naruto should totaly be a Chunnin, but Chunnins are chosen more for their knowledge level not their fighting ability(Shikamaru and Iruka-sensei). And naruto is almost too much of a dumbass to be a Chunnin. Almost all of the skills and abilities he has learned, He learned because he just used burte force and was too stubbern to quit. But Naruto has has three things going form him, and two of these thing some Jonin don't even have. First is he exccel at thinking on his feet, but any level of ninja must be good at this. Second is that he has an almost supernatural ability to pull game wining strategies out of his ass at the last second. Case in point is his fight with Neji in the second round of the Chunnin Exam Tournament, he freakin dug a hole and attacked Neji from underneath for the KO and the win, the same goes for his fight with Kiba in the priliminary matchs of the Chunnin Exam. And lastly is the fact that he has the Nine Tail Fox's chakura. This is similar to an Advanced Bloodline, the only difference is that the Fox's chakura can be used in soo main ways. Not even the Hyuga familys's 160 point attack could stop the Foxs chakura.

[Suna no tate]

You always have to ruin my day!

Chuunin is merely a rank. A designation. It doesn't mean you're a good one or a liked one. And it doesn't mean you'll right away be doing known chuunin duties. Once you win your fight, you're a chuunin. But you're right. You probably need some sort of say from the Hokage as acknowledgement or its not complete.


1)if you lose, you might still make it, but winning for sure puts you in for sure. the hokage has to call you a chuunin whether he likes it or not. the fact that the final stage was a such a huge exhibition showed how removed the hokage was from the whole process. thats my point. I just see this happening. Some insane kid like gaara wins out. Kills all his opponents. Like literally turns them into liquid... then drinks them in a little cup. The crowd goes wild with fervor for this kid. Then the hokage stands up and says "you know what, he's a little insane. I can't call him chuunin level yet". What?! What?! Thats madness! He says no because he doesn't like the kid? No way. The crowd loves him. They've basically setup a whole gladiator system. This is gladiators here. I just don't see that happening, where a kid wins out and he's left behind because of "character" issues. he'll be called a chuunin, but he'll probably not get to do any chuunin duties right away. He might be taking classes for a while or something.
2)naruto's still a genin because the chuunin exams were interrupted. Shikamaru was promoted out of need remember to lead the rescue team. There was no real rush or need to get the ceremony going for naruto who was the only other person to complete a fight. Then after that rescue he left town for 3 years. So its easy to see how he's still technically a genin. My argument is simple. He's a chuunin alright. they just haven't gotten around to telling him that.
3)iruka was listed because he was pretty crappy for a ninja. naruto had to rescue him 2x. Yet he's a chuunin...mid level my foot.
4)gaara could care less perhaps but I certainly wouldn't try it lest I face his subaku kyu.

Spoiler:

I had my tongue in cheek when i said that. I meant in the sense that once he masters combining a rank form and a rank nature, he'd be the only one in konoha who can do that. Don't you think that by mastering the most difficult technique possible, he will instantly become the technique specialist? Plus he'd be able to learn any jutsu and throw in his new method of training and it becomes clear that with a little work, he very well may replace kakashi as konoha's technique specialist.

[Dauthi]

It was to my understanding that power and jutsu had nothing to do with the chuunin exam, and that this was directly stated. It was said that the rank chuunin was given to show this ninja was now an acceptable leader, not a strong ninja.

Therfor all that matters was tactical/leadership abilities, and maturity. Only shikamaru and shino seemed to have any of these traits, unfortunately shino didnt get a chance to show what he could do. Shikamaru though, i would say overqualified, and easily got the rank.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

1)if you lose, you might still make it, but winning for sure puts you in for sure. the hokage has to call you a chuunin whether he likes it or not. the fact that the final stage was a such a huge exhibition showed how removed the hokage was from the whole process. thats my point.

Well, it is highly unlikely that if someone ends up wining the Tournament, he does not ends been promoted, still, it was stated it could happen, So we have to take that as Canon and go ahead and Say, that wining it all does not assure you the Chunin promotion.

I just see this happening. Some insane kid like gaara wins out. Kills all his opponents. Like literally turns them into liquid... then drinks them in a little cup. The crowd goes wild with fervor for this kid. Then the hokage stands up and says "you know what, he's a little insane. I can't call him chuunin level yet". What?! What?! Thats madness! He says no because he doesn't like the kid? No way. The crowd loves him. They've basically setup a whole gladiator system. This is gladiators here. I just don't see that happening, where a kid wins out and he's left behind because of "character" issues. he'll be called a chuunin, but he'll probably not get to do any chuunin duties right away. He might be taking classes for a while or something.

As I said once, you are Funny…..

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

1)if you lose, you might still make it, but winning for sure puts you in for sure. the hokage has to call you a chuunin whether he likes it or not. the fact that the final stage was a such a huge exhibition showed how removed the hokage was from the whole process. thats my point. I just see this happening. Some insane kid like gaara wins out. Kills all his opponents. Like literally turns them into liquid... then drinks them in a little cup. The crowd goes wild with fervor for this kid. Then the hokage stands up and says "you know what, he's a little insane. I can't call him chuunin level yet". What?! What?! Thats madness! He says no because he doesn't like the kid? No way. The crowd loves him. They've basically setup a whole gladiator system. This is gladiators here. I just don't see that happening, where a kid wins out and he's left behind because of "character" issues. he'll be called a chuunin, but he'll probably not get to do any chuunin duties right away. He might be taking classes for a while or something.

Not quite... who says that at the end the hokage annouces that the winner becomes a chunin... after the crowd cheers, he probably just annouces that the genin is the winner and leaves it at that... Later on, behind close doors he can say, "sure you won the tournament, but your poor intellegance makes you unsuitable to lead and thus you do not have what it takes to be a chunin... better luck next time"

Garra would probably be the exception though... the kazekage would probably promote him anyway just because he'd be scared shitless to tell him "no"... but ya, winning the tournament and your fights does not mean becoming a chunin...

The only reason why the fghts are done in tournament style is to give the crowd a good show... one of the biggest reason that part of the exam exists is to showcase the rising ninjas to all the lords and ladys that will one day be employing them as ninjas... it's kinda like an advertising

2)naruto's still a genin because the chuunin exams were interrupted. Shikamaru was promoted out of need remember to lead the rescue team. There was no real rush or need to get the ceremony going for naruto who was the only other person to complete a fight. Then after that rescue he left town for 3 years. So its easy to see how he's still technically a genin. My argument is simple. He's a chuunin alright. they just haven't gotten around to telling him that.

Shikamaru was promoted because he deserved it not just out of need... seriously, if naruto was really worthy of chunin rank then tsunade would have just called him in along with shikamaru and told them both at the same time, "congrats your chunin"... nothing ever really stopped her from telling him so...

So far, there doesn't seem to be any kind of ceremony for when a genin becomes a chunin... why should there be, i mean when only one or two genin get the promotion, a big ceremony is kind of an overkill...

3)iruka was listed because he was pretty crappy for a ninja. naruto had to rescue him 2x. Yet he's a chuunin...mid level my foot

Iruka is yet another example of intellegence over brawn... Character like him, and ebisu may not be the strongest ninja, but they have intellegence needed to lead a small team... the fact that Iruka is weak is the reason why he has never been promoted to jounin... he can lead, he can teach, but he can't fight that well

again... Intellegance and leadership >>>>>> fighting power, when it comes to being a chunin

Originally Posted by Dauthi

It was to my understanding that power and jutsu had nothing to do with the chuunin exam, and that this was directly stated. It was said that the rank chuunin was given to show this ninja was now an acceptable leader, not a strong ninja.

Therfor all that matters was tactical/leadership abilities, and maturity. Only shikamaru and shino seemed to have any of these traits, unfortunately shino didnt get a chance to show what he could do. Shikamaru though, i would say overqualified, and easily got the rank.

yes it was pretty much directly stated...
After Shikamaru's fight, two of the chunins examined and discussed his perfomance... They bascially explained that those who do not have the qualities to lead a small team do not have what it takes to be a chunin... they also threw in that both Neji and Naruto fail in that reguard at that they act like nothing more then genin...

if we had to look at ninjas in military terms... genin would be privates and corprols, the guys that make up the bulk of the fighting force while chunins would be the lieutents that are capable of leading teams of privates and corprols... and i don't think they ever promote corprols to Lieutent, if the corprol only proves that he can fight really well on his own; the corprol's gotta prove that he's got intellgence to lead the others...

[Dauthi]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

yes it was pretty much directly stated...
After Shikamaru's fight, two of the chunins examined and discussed his perfomance... They bascially explained that those who do not have the qualities to lead a small team do not have what it takes to be a chunin... they also threw in that both Neji and Naruto fail in that reguard at that they act like nothing more then genin...

if we had to look at ninjas in military terms... genin would be privates and corprols, the guys that make up the bulk of the fighting force while chunins would be the lieutents that are capable of leading teams of privates and corprols... and i don't think they ever promote corprols to Lieutent, if the corprol only proves that he can fight really well on his own; the corprol's gotta prove that he's got intellgence to lead the others...

Yeah, thats what i thought.

The whole arena setting is so the different countries can see what kind of ninja's each village is producing. Its also a pride thing for each village.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Well everyone has pretty much described the nuances of the chuunin exams and what it takes to become a chunnin, but does everyone have to become a chuunin to advance through the ranks of ninja?

Spoiler:

After the timeskip, Neji is a jounin while most of the other team members are still chuunin. Assuming Neji passed the chuunin exams at the same time as the others, he probably would've spent less than a year as a chuunin before promotion. Did he even bother with the chuunin rank at all, or was he skilled enough to bypass it and immediately earn the rank of jounin? And of course, Gaara went straight from genin to Kazekage. Maybe it's possible for Naruto to go straight to jounin or even Hokage without ever becoming a chuunin

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Well everyone has pretty much described the nuances of the chuunin exams and what it takes to become a chunnin, but does everyone have to become a chuunin to advance through the ranks

Spoiler:

After the timeskip, Neji is a jounin while most of the other team members are still chuunin. Assuming Neji passed the chuunin exams at the same time as the others, he probably would've spent less than a year as a chuunin before promotion. Did he even bother with the chuunin rank at all, or was he skilled enough to bypass it and immediately earn the rank of jounin? And of course, Gaara went straight from genin to Kazekage. Maybe it's possible for Naruto to go straight to jounin or even Hokage without ever becoming a chuunin

Spoiler:

Hmm, but that’s just speculations. I mean ok, the chuunin exam is held 2 times a year lets not forget that, because that’s very important. This means while Naruto was gone the exam was held 6 times roughly (with in 2 and a half years, when he came back and there was a chuunin exam going on could be the 5th or 6th).

What I'm saying is, is it not possible that Neji became a Chuunin the first time the exam was held after Naruto left? or the second time? Then spent the next two years working toward the promotion of becoming a Jounin and just recently became Jounin very close to Naruto's return?

As for Gaara, I don’t know what to say about that. I mean yes its true the same could be said about Gaara that I just said about Neji. How ever that COULD be wrong, the only reason I feel that could be wrong is because desperate situations call for desperate measures. The detail's are not there so these are just speculations it could be possible that Gaara did the same thing like Neji. He passed the first or second chuunin exam held after Naruto's leave then in the two years that was left he worked his way up to jounin then kazekage. It could also be said, he went straight to Kazekage status due to desperate situations call for desperate measures. (the fact that the sand had no Kage because oro killed him).

[Xelsol]

Genin=Grunt (Fighter)
Chuunin=Grunt that has aquired a brain (Tactician)
Jounin=Experienced warrior with brains and brawn.

So part one Naruto is definately only good as a genin. Part two Naruto still has not shown much intelligence. No matter how powerful a fighter gets, without intelligence, a fighter is only a fighter. Naruto will still be a genin until he can accurately assess a situation, choose the best way through it with the least amount of casualties or injuries, if fighting is required he must choose the ninjas that would be a good match to each opponent, retreat if he must (while finding the best way to do so), and no matter what he must not lose composer nor control.

Instead of all that, Naruto sees an enemy, attacks (without considering the allies he may have with him), gets a little beat up, goes berserk, and transforms into kyuubi. That is not what a chuunin should do. Even if he can do clever little tricks in his fight to bring him the advantage, if you think about it, most fighters can... it's more along the lines of a fighters instinct to do things to gain the upper hand. This is not the ammount of intelligence needed to be a chuunin. The intelligence Naruto needs cannot be learned in fights, it can only be taught. Naruto is not patient enough to study, nor listen to experts, therefore, Naruto may never become a chuunin.

Maybe Naruto can learn by picking up a few books on strategy, use tajuu kage bunshin, and have each clone read like one page each or something... but his brain would probably shut down after he releases the clones, leaving him either dead or in some vegitative state.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Well everyone has pretty much described the nuances of the chuunin exams and what it takes to become a chunnin, but does everyone have to become a chuunin to advance through the ranks of ninja?

Spoiler:

After the timeskip, Neji is a jounin while most of the other team members are still chuunin. Assuming Neji passed the chuunin exams at the same time as the others, he probably would've spent less than a year as a chuunin before promotion. Did he even bother with the chuunin rank at all, or was he skilled enough to bypass it and immediately earn the rank of jounin? And of course, Gaara went straight from genin to Kazekage. Maybe it's possible for Naruto to go straight to jounin or even Hokage without ever becoming a chuunin

Spoiler:

The chunin exams were held roughly 5 tims after naruto's leave... after the first exam, neji went through a huge personality shift... No longer blinded by his personal hatred and anger he was able to make a far better use of his intellgence, thus giving him much more leader-like ability... combined with his strength he probably graduated during the next exam...

it's not clear exactly what qualities makes someone a jounin... but if i had to guess i'd say the promotion to jounin is really just excelling in either strnegth or intellgence... considering Neji is one of the stronger and smarter characters, he probably could have spent only a year or two as a chunin... Temari and kankoro probably went through a similar transition

As for garra...He probably went the same as the other new jounin... his improved personality and views on life allowed him to think much clearer and apply his intellgence better... As for why he went all the way up to kazekage... well for one, Garra is one of the most powerful in Sand, and his unleashing his demon would probably put him on top, and power is one of the important factors for a kage... also, unless i'm mistaken, i think i remember members of the sand council saying that the main reason they made garra the kazekage was so they could control him a bit better...

[Suna no tate]

I hate to be difficult, but I actually don't remember it being said that being a chuunin has to do with leadership. I doubt everyone who's a chuunin or even a jounin is instinctively a good leader. So please someone just show the manga page where it was said or give the anime episode so I can just shut up.

Now I will say this. There is a jounin exam, and from my understanding its similar to chuunin exam in that its held in a very dangerous location and multiple candidates take it at once. It's probably the same deal as the chuunin and would explain why iruka old as he is, isn't going to become a jounin any time soon. However I can't remember if I read it in the anime or in the manga...

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by Uchikatsu

What kind of question is this...since it'd be up to the Producers and kishi himself if Naruto would be seen worth as chuunin.

Are you afraid to think for yourself?