2009-08-01, 01:20 | Link #61 |
Protecting the Throne
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Asia Tour
Age: 32
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@Irenicus
Let's try to avoid talking about religion. Your understanding may differ from others. It'd just most likely fuel Christian and Buddhist forum members. About the topic... A part of me is definitely grossed out at this guy's situation but another part of me is trying to understand him. It must be really painful to be lonely and not feel being loved. Having a 2-D girlfriend is probably his only way of assuring himself that he's still a human being and that just like any other human being, he also deserves a companion to which he can share his life with. One thing that is certain is that he'll most definitely not get slapped, neither will he get scolded for being late, and he probably won't be getting into arguments with his pillow. I understand if this his way of distracting himself from any pain he's feeling but I don't think it'll help in the long run. It depends actually. On the other hand, I seriously don’t think he should have resorted to this. What thing I do hope is that this part of Japanese culture does not seep through and find its way to other cultures.
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2009-08-01, 01:51 | Link #62 | ||
Le fou, c'est moi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 34
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It reminds me of those mental diseases that only occur in specific cultures. A very interesting thing the human psyche is. Love for idealized forms is not new though. Though obviously not in 2-D vs. 3-D terms, the core idea is quite old in and of itself. Hüsrev fell in love with a painting of Shirin, Medieval romantics adore their beloved from afar... |
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2009-08-01, 01:51 | Link #63 | |||
A Priori Impossibility
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: California
Age: 33
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Furthermore, simply saying that "I would not have resorted to this in his case" or "He should've done something else" is presupposing that he is INITIALLY capable of doing so, and that is a question of his upbringing. Not everyone is capable of picking the usual or common method of expressing themselves for various reasons. Quote:
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If you're interested in hikkikomori, you can just read the wikipedia article on it. A lot of the reasons for the prevalence of hikkikomori in Japan has to do with Japanese society more specifically, while I think this article deals with the subject of consumerism and its impact on behavior, not acute social withdrawal. And I believe those mental diseases are most often genetic. Last edited by Kylaran; 2009-08-01 at 02:02. |
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2009-08-01, 02:13 | Link #64 |
Protecting the Throne
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Age: 32
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Well Japan has been branded the "eccentric" country. Other counties can be different too in some ways, but Japan has definitely made more turns from the universal norms.
@Kylaran My "He shouldn't have resorted to this" statement just referred to the aspects of going all the way for the sake of finding love in that of the opposite gender. But if we view it in your sense, then I guess it's alright.
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2009-08-01, 02:52 | Link #65 | ||
A Priori Impossibility
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: California
Age: 33
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're basically saying he shouldn't have gone to such lengths to search for love. I'm saying that what you said assumes a sense of individual choice when you used the word "resorted", which is not necessarily justified because it presupposes things about his personality. That is, that he has the ability to make the conscious choice in the first place. It's quite possible he found himself in the middle of the behavior, and later revised his stance so he would not have conflicting inner emotions. Let me put it this way: why are there only a small amount of individuals among otaku that exhibit the same behavior as Nisan in the article? There are otaku in countries outside of Japan that show similar behavior as well. There could be several reasons beyond simply "loneliness" and "not feeling love" as you put it; quite a number of people feel those emotions, but it doesn't seem like just those emotional states are the prerequisites for acting this way. It's possible that there were events in his life that changed his way of dealing with things, which means that for him it's not a simple matter of choosing another option, and that a deeper psychological reason could underlie his behavior. I suppose it's my fault for having the tendency to write ambiguously. I never get straight to the point. What I'm saying is that it's unclear that 1.) he possessed the ability to consciously choose to pursue romance in the 2-D realm, 2.) that it would be quite unfair to judge this method of expressing romance is wrong simply because it has violated traditional (and what was previously thought universal among humans), and 3.) if this phenomenon could happen in other countries, it is because societies around the world continue to disdain abnormal behavior. The first two correspond to your comment saying, "He shouldn't have resorted to this." The second in response to your comment after that. Now, please tell me if I've misunderstood what you've said. Last edited by Kylaran; 2009-08-01 at 03:22. |
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2009-08-01, 04:09 | Link #66 | |
Protecting the Throne
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My sense is different from yours because what I just meant with my statement was that his romance with his pillow was only serving as an outlet for his heartbreak. You're claiming that I said his upbringing was already the problem to begin with. You can be at the beginning ,at the middle, or 1/3rd of the way and you can still make a choice. You can alter your stance and pursue, or you can back away. But I know that being able to change really won't be that easy especially if you're already very attached to your current situation. But I'm not saying that I'm forcing him to change. As long as he's not doing anything harmful to others, I'd say just leave him be. It doesn't seem that he's retarded in any way so I still say he's capable of making a choice on his own. Yes, some people do grow up and behave a certain way because of events that happened in their lives. In some instances, behavior that seems weird or abnormal to the universal ideals. Humankind is very complex and certainly not easy to understand. You think you've gotten something figured out, then something different results. Again, I really can't blame them for the way they feel since they grew up differently. They look at things differently and have different urges, opinions, and ideas. But asides from that, whether they feel that way or not, if they choose to act upon their feelings or do action or exhibit action, then it's a different story now. Regarding your number 2.), I don't think it's unfair that some people choose to judge 2-D love/romance in a negative way. It does violate tradition, one of the parties doesn't have any feelings, and I don't think it's anywhere near fading away. The person's happy with his imaginary love and then society will just keep on adapting and adapting until there will actually be real weddings for this. Kylaran, it's good to know that you're a very sympathetic person and that you're very open-minded and accepting of these "different" circumstances, but I for one will not choose to tolerate this idea. I do not dislike or hate the person but I do not like the idea of 2-D love/romance itself. I'm fine if his romance continues and it makes him happy, but as for society, I just don't desire for this kind of romance to spread and to keep on growing and start changing the real meaning of romance.
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2009-08-01, 20:23 | Link #68 | |||
A Priori Impossibility
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: California
Age: 33
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I think it's quite weird that he has reached such extremes, too. It's not like I'm saying: "Go head! If you want to be like this, do it." I don't think it's practical, and there are several reasons I have against living the way he does, but I do think that there is something more to this than people say there are. We'd lose a chance to understand ourselves if we exclude him as a regular person because he acts irregularly on the outside. |
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2009-08-01, 23:36 | Link #69 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Age: 36
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I'm really surprised how many stridently anti-otaku posters there are here...this is an anime forum, for chrissakes. 2D love is a form of love which makes far more sense in the post-industrial, post-modern times we inhabit.
Also, 2D love isn't really the same as being romantically attracted to an animate object. It be far more accurate to describe it as being romantically attracted to your own imagination, or a social imagination (the otaku culture and creators that produce objects of 2D love). |
2009-08-02, 00:15 | Link #70 | |
Protecting the Throne
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