2008-12-19, 06:14 | Link #281 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Land of the rising sun
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You're just making the problem worse apologizing to a problem that neither side really sees in full view. You need to develop a mutual agreement to the problem for it to be solved based on the criteria I wrote in my previous posting. (Point a person or a group with faces who are accountable. Point out what exactly was the problem, the extent of the problem, the motive and who were the victims and again not a simple mass like the Chinese people in general. (were they soldiers in civilian clothing, were they mis-represented people, were they sympathizers or were they simply bystanders) What I hear the most is more of a propaganda line to demote Japan's present global political status. |
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2008-12-19, 06:31 | Link #282 | |
ドジ
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a house
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It's good that you at least admit that something bad happened. As you said, people were used as guinea pigs... it doesn't matter at all what the motives were or whether these people were "soldiers in civilian clothing, mis-represented people, sympathizers or simply bystanders". The pure and simple fact is that they were used as guinea pigs and died as a result. Is that not horrible enough for you? Let's just leave it at that instead of trying to protect Japan at any cost. Before you accuse me of being unfair... yes, the Chinese should also stop being si beh nationalistic and protective of the PRC. As a nation, we have been letting emotions get the better of us. As for Tiananmen, I condemn the CCP's actions as much as you do, but it doesn't make a whit of difference with regard to 731 and Nanjing. |
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2008-12-19, 07:05 | Link #283 | |
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 37
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Was Unit 731 a crime? Yes. Is it unforgivable? Yes. Is it worth using a term that is used for genocide? No. |
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2008-12-19, 13:32 | Link #284 | ||||
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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2008-12-19, 16:57 | Link #285 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: PMB Headquarters
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If 731 was evil, then lots of scientists from various countries of this very era are evil as well. American scientists during the 90s were grabbing people off African streets to do live experimentations, which resulted in the Ebola Syndrome and AIDs. Those two diseases were biochemical weapons and it only occurred in Africa at first. However, the US was not hold accountable for the incidents, because facts pointed out that they were not responsible, because they were the "good" guys. China has done a fair share of live human experimentations, using Falun Gong practitioners as their organ harvest, biochemical weapon tests, as well as guinea pigs to develop medicine to extend their survival rates in the future. However, since there are no actual evidence, they did not do such a crime against humanity and the end result is like the US scientists, they are also the "good" guys. Both of these countries deny their actions against humanity and evidence proves that they really are the "good" guys. Unit 731 are evil, because they did the same thing as US and China, yet the were the losers. One more thing is that China is currently using Japan's East-Asian conflict incident as a means of diverting its public's attention away from the Tiannanmen Massacre and also the current corruption of the government, as well as how they are currently treating Muslims and Falun Gong practitioners in their very own nation. To hide away their own crimes against humanity, large numbers of living human beings, they used historical issues as their main diversion tactic. Though it works, but I am certain that not everybody is foolish enough to buy into it. |
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2008-12-19, 17:52 | Link #286 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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The reason people get worked up with Japan time and time again is because practically every year you hear some high-level official or general in Japan deny/downplay aspects of its history. But before you claim that this is just because Japan lost the war, let me assure you that Japan is not the primary target of world hate. The US and the PRC receive far more negative criticism than Japan does today, and they deserve it. Nonetheless, Japan did commit atrocities in the past and it is necessary to face up to them. It might even be in Japan's interests to do so, as then you can at least claim that Japan faced up to its past, whereas the countries doing the criticizing haven't yet faced up to theirs. Last edited by Lathdrinor; 2008-12-19 at 18:02. |
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2008-12-19, 19:34 | Link #287 | |
思想工作
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 31
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The point is that one shouldn't get tied up by specific meanings of words. I don't consider 731 a big part of the Japanese crimes. Sure, they were extremely evil, but looking at the numbers it doesn't actually mean much. I'm sure similar things happened in the Nanjing massacre. |
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2008-12-22, 21:32 | Link #289 | |
Insane Fangirl
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Home of the 2010 Olympics
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"Oh, it's not the Japanese's fault my mom got dragged off, raped over and over again, and then killed in a brutal way. They were just doing what everyone else does in this world. WE all do that on a daily basis, no?"
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2008-12-22, 22:30 | Link #290 | ||
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Location: Singapore now, QLD next.
Age: 40
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2008-12-22, 22:53 | Link #293 |
NePoi!
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 43
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So now you speak for everyone in the Home Islands, then?
The things that happened to German civilians during the Allied air raids, and the onslught of the Red Army in their drive to Berlin, were horrifying - but Germans (and others) look at them in the context of the massive crimes committed by the Nazis in the course of the War, and with the acknowledgment of the millions who died under Hitler's rule. The point I am making is that the same should apply in East Asia - and pretending that Japan was unblemished is no more fair than trying to pretend the bombings of Japan made them the 'real' victims.
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2008-12-22, 22:57 | Link #294 | ||
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What, Home Islands? UK? No I don't.
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2008-12-22, 23:09 | Link #295 |
NePoi!
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 43
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'Home Islands' refers to Japan. The term is not used in the UK, not least because things are somewhat more complicated identity-wise between certain parts of the UK and the Republic of Ireland...
...and when officials in Japan come out with that kind of line, of course I disagree vehemently - but it's not much more helpful to say that every official figure in the country thinks the same, or that it's ok to go too far in the other direction.
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2008-12-22, 23:13 | Link #296 | ||
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2008-12-22, 23:32 | Link #297 |
NePoi!
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 43
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It's funny - when talking sport, especially rugby union, the term Home Nations is fine in Ireland and in the UK, but politically-speaking it gets a bit trickier...
Not necessarily funny ha-ha, mind you. And I did read somewhere about how some in Hiroshima itself were pissed at the way the government in Tokyo was doing things - can't quite recall why, though.
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2008-12-22, 23:34 | Link #298 | ||
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2008-12-22, 23:36 | Link #299 |
NePoi!
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 43
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Well, you see, I was born in Belfast, I have family from NI and the Republic (where I lived most of my life) and I am more trouble than I am worth anyway, so avoiding that subject is kind of hard to do...
...but then, problems don't go away unless people are willing to at least try and talk about them,.
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2008-12-22, 23:40 | Link #300 | |
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