2008-09-04, 02:07 | Link #2101 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Wellllllll, we could put on our tin-foil hats and surmise that McCain will have an "accident" in his first month in office (as Cheney furtively sneaks away in ninja garb), thus making Palin Prez.......
(note: for the NSA/FBI, the previous constitutes a Saturday Night Live sketch idea ).
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2008-09-04, 02:24 | Link #2102 | |
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 37
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Anyway, I'm rooting for the Republicans, if it prevents Obama from getting the place. |
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2008-09-04, 02:43 | Link #2104 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Reading through the transcripts of the speeches they gave, I would agree with the theory that a few have tossed out that they drew straws to see who would speak on what.
Romney gave the most 180-in-every-direction speech. From what he did while governor of Mass to the speech itself, he was reversing course every few minutes. And a speech railing on east coast elites and liberalism from the former Governor of Massachusetts... whiskey tango foxtrot. (For those who aren't aware, Massachusetts is one of the most liberal states in the US.) Palin's speech really screamed "I really hope factcheck.org isn't paying attention right now" whenever it went off of her family. I actually can't find anything outright flawed with Huckabee's speech beside some of his claims which clearly won't stand up to a fact check (the voting for one). Mr. 9/11Giuliani actually started with a decent speech making an experience argument that was well framed (I don't know if it will stand up to fact checking). And then he must have fired this new unexperienced speech writer who actually made a decent argument, not that I agree with it, and hired his experienced one since it jumped into his typical "9/11, terrorists are under your bed" before it began claiming two way streets are one way. The best part of all this is reading their speeches conflict with each other. Between talking about things that require big gov vs things that require small gov and cutting costs vs things that require big spending, I don't think there was anything they didn't contradict each other on... except that McCain was a POW. Oh look, it's some fact checking from the "liberal media" who is out to get them. |
2008-09-04, 02:56 | Link #2106 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Oh, its actually fairly instructive --- just not in the way either party thinks they are. It is the 'between the lines' and 'behind the curtain' shenanigans that are interesting. As bayoab notes, factcheck.org is your friend in these antics (as well as a number of other like-wise sources). What you're watching are the mythologies each party creates -- which usually have little to do with the underlying goals of their financial backers -- to sway those that don't pay attention more of the time.
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2008-09-04, 08:53 | Link #2107 | |
Dancing with the Sky
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Now it is time for the Battleground States Report: Right now, Obama is holding leads in polls in Minn, Iowa by double digits, and Virginia with a deadhead in Missouri. McCain is got a little edge in Ohio and Florida. Even if McCain does win Ohio and Florida, if he cant take Virginia and/or Minn or even some of the western states he is going to have a hard time getting the 270 for the POTUS. By the way, I know somebody earlier in the thread said that Georgia isnt in play but I got a feeling that Georgia will turn blue and cause alot of trouble for McCain (who lost to Huckbee while Obama blasted Clinton by 30% there)
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2008-09-04, 18:11 | Link #2108 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
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My fundamental problem with Palin is less about she herself and more what it says about McCain: Ever since he knew he was running against Obama, McCain has been feeding his supporters a party line about the importance of foreign policy experience. He's been hammering on it again and again -- you have to make your decision based on foreign policy experience! That's the important thing! Letting someone without my experience near the presidency would be too dangerous!
Then, the one time McCain gets to make a decision himself that puts someone near the presidency -- literally, the only choice he ever makes that could elevate someone else to that job -- and what does he do? He chooses the candidate with the least foreign-policy experience imaginable. Even Republican speechwriters like Peggy Noonan know it's political BS; they chose a candidate they thought could help them with conservatives, women, and with a connection to arctic drilling, and experience be damned. Now, mind you, I don't think experience is actually that much of a big deal (there's not really anything that can prepare you for being President anyway). We've had good leaders with relatively little experience (Teddy Roosevelt, JFK), and leaders who had experience to the gills and still made terrible mistakes (Nixon, LBJ). I always thought McCain and Clinton's talk of experience was as much hot air. But by picking Palin, McCain has basically admitted that he thought it was as much hot air, too... when push comes to shove, he simply didn't consider experience to be worth considering. Every single time McCain attacked Obama on experience, he's been feeding us a line he didn't honestly believe himself, hasn't he? If he thinks Palin is a good pick to replace him in a pinch, then there's not really any other way to look at it. If I was a Republican volunteer right now, I'd be furious at McCain. He spent months having them mouth an empty line of attack he didn't believe himself, then he spins around and stabs them in the back with a VP pick that goes so obviously against everything he's said. Palin's not such a big deal. It's what the pick of Palin says about McCain that is so damaging. |
2008-09-04, 19:39 | Link #2110 | |
Dancing with the Sky
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But if NC and VA turns Blue, then even if McCain wins OH, FL, Missouri, he will still have a rough time getting to 270.
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2008-09-04, 20:04 | Link #2111 | |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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2008-09-04, 20:04 | Link #2112 |
Μ ε r c ü r υ
Join Date: Jun 2004
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I understand that Palin is not very fitting for the job, but the attacks on her are a bit too much. And, it says a lot, what might have happened if Hillary would have gotten the nomination. It is sad that those liberal-democrats are using the exact cards that you would expect the republicans would use.
I would like to ask, would the critics have preferred someone like Cheney, powerful yet evil figure (with obvious agenda) standing behind McCain, or someone like her who would obviously be there accidentally. I hope those critics would understand that their actions might really turn the election into a catfight, taking the attention away from the real problems, something republicans would definitely prefer. Right now, it feels that way. It is also interesting to see that her speech was watched by 37 million people (just 1.x million less than the number who watched Obama's speech), and if you take into account the two African-American oriented channels that gave only Obama's speech (since the physical attributes of the candidate seems to be their only connection to politics), it shows how much attention she got from the general public (even more than Obama, based on the adjusted numbers). Oh, and I have to admit that I haven't seen such a money eager campaign (I am talking about Obama's). They even used Palin's speech to collect more dimes from the public (maybe it is time to change the name of his campaign to the name of an aid agency such as Obama's Red Cross). |
2008-09-04, 20:24 | Link #2113 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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That was definitely the most hate-filled, vile speeches that I've heard in a while. Making fun of community organizers is now a good thing? So people that participate in organizations such as Habitat for Humanity and the PTA are doing something laughable? Why is having a Harvard Law degree so wrong in the first place? Do we not want our leaders to be educated or what? There was just so much pandering made to those people, with all of terrorist attack scares and whatnot, that I haven't seen a single line in any of the speeches made by the RNC that actually discussed plans, period. It was just a nasty preaching to the choir, which is made all the more ironic considering just how Obama predicted that they would try to divide the country. |
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2008-09-04, 20:42 | Link #2115 |
Army of One
Join Date: Apr 2007
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I hate how Saracuda used this in both of her speeches.
PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere." THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_123771.html |
2008-09-04, 20:50 | Link #2116 | |
Μ ε r c ü r υ
Join Date: Jun 2004
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And a good portion of those attacks concentrated on saying that basically she is nothing. She has not done anything. And, I think, when it reaches that point, it becomes fair to use the same exact style to fight when you have been exposed to too much of that. Don't get me wrong, after reading her background I don't think she is a worthy candidate. But, the methods being used by the democrats to point out that are way too aggressive. |
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2008-09-04, 20:58 | Link #2117 |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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Really? Due to a hectic schedule I've been in a bit of a news blackout lately, but I do get to see the headlines from the newspapers that fellow commuters are reading. Politically speaking, I read that Obama said that family should be off-limits [from political attacks - this is with regard to the teen pregnancy issue and Palin's daughter], and then there were a lot of headlines about "McCain comes out swinging" and "Palin's fiery speech" with a bit more about "one two knockout" statements. It could be that the media are selectively reporting, but I was under the impression that the Republicans were being extremely aggressive. Ever since I started following politics around 2001/2002 I was under the impression that Republican super-aggression has been the usual.
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2008-09-04, 21:06 | Link #2118 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Obama has been put through severe media scrutiny for the last few months, several of which included allegations of being a muslim and the fiasco with Reverend Wright. Palin has no right to claim that the mainstream media is being biased against her when she has been investigated for less than a week, and especially since NOBODY knew who she was until she was chosen to become the Vice President nominee. The media isn't being sexism or biased, they're just being the media, whose purpose is to investigate and report the facts in the first place. |
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2008-09-04, 21:08 | Link #2119 | |
Μ ε r c ü r υ
Join Date: Jun 2004
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They become extremely biased when they are doing something they criticized in the first place, when it was used against Obama. |
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2008-09-04, 21:15 | Link #2120 |
Kuu-chan is hungry
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
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What are you going to talk about Obama's 2 daughters? They're not even old enough to be an issue the Republicans can use.
There have been attacks on Obama not supporting his half-brother or something like that. He only met his half-brother once and he said he didn't want Obama's money. There have also been consistent attacks on Michelle Obama's patriotism. Does she love America? Is she patriotic enough? Terrorist fist-bump anyone? Let's not forget the "Obama is a Muslim" attack. The right wing loves to say Barack Hussein Obama and that he went to school in a madrassa. That has been going on for months and is still not totally dispelled. Palin has been under scrutiny for less than a week. |
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debate, elections, politics, united_states |
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