[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Bern-chan]

Originally Posted by confused_kitsune

Of course not; but there could always be a scenarios like this: X person is in the boat for various reasons, Y person from the island dies, then X person steps on the island. Technically, there are 17 people on the island, but there is one more than in the previous games.

I guess, but there's a typhoon, the boat would most likely be destroyed on the shore or taken away by the tide even if it was tied up. I definitely think that as people die, more people probably somehow get onto the island though to replenish the numbers back to 17.

[confused_kitsune]

Originally Posted by Bern-chan

I guess, but there's a typhoon, the boat would most likely be destroyed on the shore or taken away by the tide even if it was tied up. I definitely think that as people die, more people probably somehow get onto the island though to replenish the numbers back to 17.

But there has to be a secure way to keep boats somewhat safe during a typhoon, or at least tied; remember that in ep 1 it's mentioned that Krauss' boat is out for repair? I doubt he repairs it every time after a storm. He must take some precautions. And then there's also the secret port at Kuwadorian, which might be more sheltered; it's very likely that the culprits are aware of its existence.

Regarding your theory: that's interesting (though doubtful yet again due to lack of means of transporting people during the typhoon); it would mean that during the time frame of October 4th-5th there could be a number of maximum 34 people that passed onto Rokkenjima. 34? Wait...Lambda! xD

[Kitsu]

But this way we wouldn't get a happy end withouth breaking the red truth. Because if we manage that no one dies, the new person would be the 18th

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Kitsu

But this way we wouldn't get a happy end withouth breaking the red truth. Because if we manage that no one dies, the new person would be the 18th

You only have 2 realistic options then. Either someone's already dead that everyone thinks is still alive, or someone's playing the part of 2 people.

Only the magical perspective can possibly insert an active none-human piece that does not violate the 17 human/person limit.

[Hareoic]

Both ports might not be considered part of the island. The culprit could just walk in and murder people, then return to their hiding place until their next move.

There's also the place where the shrine was, which isn't on the island.

All things considered, though, it's probably not that.

(34 people are viewing this thread right now. It must be a sign)

[maximilianjenus]

Originally Posted by confused_kitsune

Of course not; but there could always be a scenarios like this: X person is in the boat for various reasons, Y person from the island dies, then X person steps on the island. Technically, there are 17 people on the island, but there is one more than in the previous games.

The "no more than 17 people " now makes even more sense not as a trap used by beato to force batler to think only that someone taking kinzo's place was the culprit, just to later crush his theories easily. But also as a fact that people can get on the island once the twilights starts, something like what cronotrig mentioned about the original japanese text.

Originally Posted by chronotrig

Just something to point out about the Japanese here...and also the English, although it doesn't translate perfectly.

This '18th person X' doesn't have to be a single, specific person. By the strictest definition, all this line means is that there will never be 18 people on the island at any point in time. In other words, there's no one you could call 'the 18th person on the island' because there are only 17 there.

In other words, if someone has died or left the island, someone else could then enter the island and the red wouldn't be violated, even if the 17 people we know were all on the island to start with (i.e. no Kanon=Shannon theory is needed).

Also, bern's playing around with the pieces might mean that there is a miracle that someone survives the storm and lands on rokkenjima.

[Bern-chan]

Well... The rock could be hollowed out or something, and extend underground. It's obviously a significant place, maybe that's where they're all hiding.

[maximilianjenus]

known facts with personal hypothesis and wild guesses

What if the person always lands on the island, at about the same time the first twilight happens, so the persons going to attend her (at random) do not get killed, adn what went wrong in Episode 3 was that nobody saved her.

[Bern-chan]

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

known facts with personal hypothesis and wild guesses

What if the person always lands on the island, at about the same time the first twilight happens, so the persons going to attend her (at random) do not get killed, adn what went wrong in Episode 3 was that nobody saved her.

This is interesting. But what if she is the key, what if it's the people that attend to her that do die? Maybe she's the mystery guest in EP2. So many possibilities... Maybe she comes to every conference in secret, to meet with Maria. Or, Idk. I'm just guessing.

Here's another theory though. Maybe she's a hoax. D:

[maximilianjenus]

Maybe they pulled a diddy's conquest ?

the DK2 videogame, aka Diddy Kong's Quest got it's name changed to Diddy's Kong Quest before it was published, since nintendo told some people of the change by phone, they assumed it was Diddy's Conquest.
Maybe it's the Land of the Golden Witch (the one who was supossed to be Episode 4) and they misheard Land for End ?

[Serpit]

I know the idea that the new witch is connected to or even the personification of Maria's rose has been thrown around already, but I arrived at the same conclusion.

1.) MARIA has been stated to be able to create something out of nothing. She turned a stuffed lion into a little boy and a bunch of bunny figurines into bunny-eared sniper girls, so turning a rose into a girl doesn't seem that far-fetched.

2.) The witch has several roses on her hat, and a red rose pattern on her pantyhose.

3.) Her dress is pink and white - which are the exact same colors as the candy wrapper George used to mark the rose.

4.) As stated before, the "Bara" part of Umineko no Naku Koro ni Bara can have several meanings, one of them being "rose".

[k//eternal]

You think they're using that reading? It'd actually make sense.

[vandakiara]

yeah I think Serpit might just be right... it makes sense at least...

[Yami Arisu]

Uhm, about Maria creating the Siesta Sisters... Sure, the bunnies were her toys, but the TIPS mention something about that the Siesta Corps were formed by Pendragon. Apparently, 451 & 45 are only being lend out to Beatrice due to a long relationship with the Pendragon family? I don't know if that's important in any way, but it the identity of Pendragon kinda bugs me since Ep 4. So yeah, has anyone an idea regarding that?

[ChaosDimension]

Hey guys, long time lurker, first time poster. After looking at those revealing screenies of EP5 I am now going to reveal my theory on what game the are playing. I started this theory when I was in mid ep3 and only strengthened it after reading ep 4 and now reading that 3rd pic of ep5.

Spoiler for Theory:

I am going to barely elaborate on this but if more people are interested then I can go in depth.

So what game are they exactly playing?

Texas Hold em' (A variation of poker, google if you don't know)

Take a second to take this in.

Now go take a look at the epitaph. Notice something? The first part of the epitaph is practically a whole metaphor of Texas hold em. And even kyrie herself told us that the epitaph is segmented into 3 parts. The first part tells us what the game is, the second how the game will go, and the 3rd how the game will end.

Lets analyze the beginning.

My beloved hometown, the sweetfish river(River Card?) running through it.
You who seek the Golden Land(The pot? in this case, beatrices pot of gold), follow its path downstream and seek the key.(if you go down the river you'll see other community cards)

If you follow the river downstream, you will find a village.(Could be referencing that the community cards are all face cards, meaning people)
In the village, look for the shore the two will tell you of.(the shore could be a reference to the end of the poker table, which your hole cards lay, 2 of them.)
There sleeps the key to the Golden Land. (self explanatory, key to winning the game, also a reference to cards being dealt face down, hence sleeping.)


He who lays hand upon the key shall travel under the rules below. (lol wut, basically, use that hand to play the game!)

Now the next part, is a segment in which, goes differently every episode because another round is played every episode. It can help us theorize how the game will go. That's up to you guys to analyze, I'm only going to show you the way. The only thing that's weird is how it's said Village of gold instead of Golden land.

Now the 3rd part is pretty easy to analyze.

The witch will praise the wise, and should bestow four treasures.(congratulatory part, why? Read my conclusion.)
One shall be, all the gold from the Golden Land.(winner of the hand, gets the pot)
One shall be, the resurrection of the souls of all the dead. (new round starts, everybody is dealt new cards and whoever lost last round is "revived" to play again)
One shall be, even the resurrection of the lost love, (this one could be referencing that after every episode lost love is found, i.e george/shannon, jessica/kanon/, rosa/maria, ange/battler
One shall be, to put the witch to sleep for all time. (Does not happen, game restarts and the epitaph is not fulfilled.)

Sleep peacefully, my most beloved witch, Beatrice.

What's my conclusion? Beatrice is the DEALER! Think about it, the game cannot end unless there is one winner, hence, Beatrice cannot sleep. That's why the game must keep restarting. Battler isn't fighting Beatrice at all, battler must fight all the participants and disable all the theories that can be used against him. That's why the Beatrice can say stuff in red, she knows what's going on but cannot help Battler win the game at all. She can only give hints and stuff.

In a poker perspective all that battler is asking are things like, "George has a flush" and Beato can only reply with, no "George does not have a flush."

Of course this is only the tip of the iceberg, I got so much backing and stuff on why they are playing a poker game, but so far I have not seen any thing in the game that can disapprove this theory. What do you guys think?

[k//eternal]

Originally Posted by Yami Arisu

Uhm, about Maria creating the Siesta Sisters... Sure, the bunnies were her toys, but the TIPS mention something about that the Siesta Corps were formed by Pendragon. Apparently, 451 & 45 are only being lend out to Beatrice due to a long relationship with the Pendragon family? I don't know if that's important in any way, but it the identity of Pendragon kinda bugs me since Ep 4. So yeah, has anyone an idea regarding that?

King Arthur. That's why they're so British, too.

It's kind of like pretending your toy sword is Excalibur, I don't think there's much meaning in it.

Originally Posted by ChaosDimension

Of course this is only the tip of the iceberg, I got so much backing and stuff on why they are playing a poker game, but so far I have not seen any thing in the game that can disapprove this theory. What do you guys think?

Where does the atlas come in?

[Golden Witch Drugs]

About the rose girl...

Spoiler for Random thoughts and some spoilers:

If the girl on the portrait were to be Maria's rose she sureley would be "owned" by Maria. Then it would be strange if she was the person floating to the island from a ship accident. After all, the rose was "born" on the island, and it couldn't just have escaped. But then, if she were to be Maria's rose, why is she on a portrait? The ones on the portraits are usually Beatrice's, and since Beato lost to Battler (Although the secret tea party did not state so, it stated that Battler was all wrong) there should be a new Beatrice. Lambda and Bern stated that Beato can't win, and the title "End of the Golden Witch" says that Beatos time is over. So the girl on the portrait should be the new Beatrice then. But since the rose girl is created by Maria she is just furniture and can't be a Beatrice. But in the right bottom corner of the new portrait you can see a chopped hand, that may be Maria's hand if the rose were to somehow master great magics and defeat Maria, therefore she would have a chance to become to golden witch. Now I can't type anymore -.-'

[Marion]

So...should we call the new girl "Bara-Beatrice" maybe :P?

Beatrice wasn't technically defeated. She pretty much /let/ Battler win, as Lambda's deadly red truth showed. And I still don't believe Lambda would replace Beatrice unless there was a reason for it.

[vandakiara]

Hmm well I think that maybe the girl in the portrait AND the person who shipwrecked are two different people... so it wouldn't be impossible for her to be Maria's rose...

But as for the painting... I don't know D:

[Golden Witch Drugs]

Originally Posted by Marion

So...should we call the new girl "Bara-Beatrice" maybe :P?

Beatrice wasn't technically defeated. She pretty much /let/ Battler win, as Lambda's deadly red truth showed. And I still don't believe Lambda would replace Beatrice unless there was a reason for it.

Yes, but she was 'defeated'. And in the tea party they stated that Beato would lose. So 'would' stated that the game will go on. But "End of the Golden Witch" doesn't sound too good to me :P And the portrait must be a new Beatrice. Although I'm a little unsure of this "Rose Girl" thing... It is similiar, but I don't see how she can be Beatrice when she is 'owned' by Maria.

Spoiler for I think it is a spoiler...:

Btw, is it just me, or would other people also want to see the punishment Lambda mentioned for Bern in ep 4 secret tea party? xD