Turn A Gundam

[artquest7@]

If they release it on blue ray... I will for sure buy it.

[Deacon Blues]

Say farewell to Turn A, folks.

[Black Lion]

Originally Posted by Deacon Blues

Say farewell to Turn A, folks.

Well that sucks, but maybe they'll license it out to one of the other "contractors" they talked about.

And did I read correctly that Bandai Entertainment had only 5 full time employees? No wonder they never got anything done!

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Deacon Blues

Say farewell to Turn A, folks.

As I said in the thread in the General Anime section, really not surprised and kind of saw it coming. Bandai has been pretty infamous over the years for announcing and then canceling releases of old shows so when I heard them announce Turn A Gundam, while I was excited a part of me was always saying in the back of my head that's it's probably too good to be true and as it turns out it was.

[sweet-d]

man that sucks I really wanted to buy Turn A.

[Haak]

I know this a bit of a bump, but I just had to make a post about this. I recently decided to watch Turn A Gundam since I've now watched most of the major series and I've heard good things about this show. I'm now eight episodes in and it certainly hasn't disappointed.

I had a little bit of trepidation going into this show because this a 100% Tomino show and I was horrified by his most recent instalment (Reconguista in G). In fact it made me wonder if I was just remembering wrong and maybe the previous Tomino Gundam shows that I watched weren't as good as I thought they were. But no, there's no reason for me to doubt. Tomino is a legit great writer and director and I don't know what the hell he was smoking when he wrote Reconguista in G, but Turn A is wonderfully straightforward and logical in its storytelling. Sometimes the dialogue can be a bit difficult to engage with and there are some things that whiz by a little too fast but those moments are very infrequent. Perhaps it's because Turn A has so much more room to breathe with its 50 episode count and the lack of desire to commit half of every single episode to action. Whatever the case, Turn A actually has the time to tell a coherent story and I'm loving the pace.

And that story is fantastic. Probably my biggest gripe with all the previous Gundam instalments is that they would always throw you straight into the conflict and you don't truly understand why the war even started in the first place until a very long time later. I always considered this "Tomino's style" but how wrong I was! These initial episodes have been great in establishing the setting first (not perfectly since we still don't know everything about Earth and the countries and their political structure) and then to the beginnings of war, including rising tensions among the populace, increased militarism and a continual failure of negotiations. Why can't everyone else write like this? Almost all the other war/mecha anime I've seen follow Tomino's initial style of throwing you into the deep end, but I much prefer this by a wide mile. It allows you to appreciate the human drama so much more.

What's great is that both sides have hawks and doves and all of them are understandable, even the hawks. It's easy to see why the Terrans are upset. To them, the Moonrace are nothing more than invaders that suddenly spring up on them, bringing nothing but death and destruction. First introductions were about as awful as you can get. But it's also easy to see the Moonrace's side of the story as well. These people have an almost religious belief about returning to Earth and they probably never realised the problems that it would create doing so and that it's not simply a matter of barging in and setting up shop. Their invasion was done out of naivety and ignorance rather than malice. They're not really bad guys but they can't just pack up and leave immediately either. What's less excusable is that there is a certain tinge of superiority to their actions, which is understandable due to their much more powerful military might but I love how the show calls them out on that too. It's also great to see that the line between hawks and doves isn't that clear cut and characters exhibit both tendencies because they have to. Guin Lineford, for example, is clearly keen on peace and negotiations but is placed in a difficult situation because in this complex situation, he needs to increase the militarism on his own side and risk raising tensions because he needs that military power to act as a deterrent and be seen as an equal with the Moonrace if he wants to negotiate successfully (because of the aforementioned sense of superiority on the Moonrace side). This is not a traditionally Good vs Evil story and even more blurred than other Gundam stories that usually have clear cut bad guys. The other great thing is the presence of civilian characters like Keith and Fran which add a more down to earth story of how this hostility has affected the lives of the people down below. The fact that the two and Loran were originally spies for the Moonrace and have wavering loyalties to both sides adds an interesting dynamic to their characters. The characters are so multifaceted and easy to relate to.

I don't know if Tomino was inspired by the Israel-Palestinian conflict when he wrote this because I can't help but see some similarity between the Moonrace's desire to return to Earth and Zionism. The similarities are only skin deep and I know the Israel-Palestinian conflict is much more complicated but nonetheless, Turn A probably has the realistic and down to earth cause of conflict I've ever seen in the Gundam franchise.

The show is not without its flaws of course. For example, you'd think the Moonrace with its technology would have some advanced reconnaissance technology that would allow them to figure out that Laura and Loran are the same person. It's also weird that the weapons keep crumbling for Loran but the mobile suits themselves remain perfectly intact. But these are mostly minor things.

And now that I've watched this show, my impressions of Iron Blooded Orphans has actually diminished somewhat. Gundam IBO is a little underwhelming due to its extreme lack of politics in comparison to Turn A. It has politics but they don't drive the characters and the story as much as Turn A and the drama in IBO is insularly character based. Hopefully IBO gets better in that regard but I'm beginning to think Okada's character focused writing just isn't a good fit for the Gundam franchise which has traditionally been heavily plot and politically driven.

Oh and btw, the soundtrack to this show is a God send. I don't understand why the OP features someone saying "Turn A Gundam" in a brummie accent, though.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

@Haak

It's nice to see a fresh opinion on Turn-A Gundam. It's one of the better Tomino shows though it's still has a number of flaws and story holes in it. Though since you're only 8 episodes-in, you're still on the tip of the iceberg. Can't wait to read your final impression (and middle impressions, if you're in the mood to write it). Not going to spoil you on anything, but yes, Turn-A definitely has "Israel-Palestinian conflict"-vibe in it with how the Moonrace want to "reclaim the promised land".

As for Turn-A diminishing your impression on IBO, I think it's apples-and-oranges case more than anything. You can pretty much tell any kind of story involving a Gundam. It's the execution that matters. I mean, Gundam 0080 doesn't have much politics and the story is from a little child's POV but thanks to its superb writing, it's one of the best Gundam stories ever told.

[Haak]

Episode 9-20

So what happens at episode 9? Corin, that’s what happens. A bombastic, blood lusting douchebag with a not so subtle phallic symbol printed on the crotch area of his clothing, Corin immediately manages to undermine the dignity that this show had as well as undermine a very well written situation where there were no outright bad guys. I get the purpose behind his character: There were very strong hints that he was sent on someone else’s orders to deliberately sabotage the peace process, but I don’t even recall him doing that. In the end, it was Inglessa that attacked first and fell because of it. I don’t recall Corin having anything to do with instigating it. Granted his final fight with Loran at the volcano caves were thrilling in its own right (and the show also used him to hint at this Dark History and the Gundam’s role in it) but I don’t think any of these reasons are good enough to have him as a character like that. You could’ve gotten better results with a more nuanced and sympathetic character. For better or worse, it’s guaranteed that he’s going to come back into the story at some point as well, since his final parting shot showed his mobile suit falling into the lava but him landing on a supposedly safe platform (Although I’m pretty sure that should’ve killed him too). This is either a disaster in the making or an opportunity to make him a better character by actually making him more relevant to the story beyond being a bad guy for the protagonist to defeat.

But Corin isn’t the only problem that emerges – there’s another twist to this show that I’m just not impressed with and it's turning out to be twist that has completely taken hold on the show: Dianna’s switch with Kihel. It started off well enough when the switch was used as a vehicle for Dianna to learn about the tragedy in Kihel’s household because I assumed this would be relevant to Dianna later on in determining her political policies and I also assumed that this switch would simply last for a short period, but now it’s just getting ridiculous. You’d think Kihel would eventually be found out when the day to day running of a society starts to reveal Kihel’s lack of knowledge and experience in comparison to Dianna, but no somehow Kihel manages to remain Dianna simply for being “strong willed” as if that alone is enough in what ought to be a complicated situation. It gets even more farcical when somehow Kihel even manages to convince Dianna herself that she can do a better job. The story tries justifying this with the speech Kihel gives at the end of Episode 18 in what is obviously meant to be a character defining moment, but in the end it didn’t make any damn sense to me. Dianna originally had a lot of trepidation to the plan of unilaterally annexing the sun belt region because it would naturally cause friction with the country that it’s originally under and would obviously be seen as an increasingly belligerent land grab (especially after the fall of Inglessa). But at no point does Kihel justify or rationalise this in her speech, instead just using it to talk about the Dark History and how Earth has forgotten about it and wonderful it would be if everyone could live in peace. It’s answering to the problem is so ridiculously evasive yet it’s used to bang us over the head about how “strong willed” she is. What’s even more perplexing is that Harry and other members of the Dianna Counter aren’t too happy with what she said and I don’t even know why because at the end of the day she still announced the annexation of the Sun Belt (which is what they all agreed on).

Then there’s the whole meandering side plot with Dianna and Will Game. Frankly, I thought it sucked: Will Game seemed like a needless and unsympathetic character with a silly obsession. I thought it was interesting that Dianna had actually lived on Earth a long time ago and went to the moon to hibernate but I didn’t care much for the romance with the previous Will Game and the arc overall mostly felt like a waste of time.

Then there are other issues with the writing, like Sochie for example. She took the revelation that Loran was a Moonrace pretty much as I expected her to, but after Loran saves her life her behaviour in Episode 10 seems to suggest she’s gotten over it, only for Sochie to then hold it against him again in Episode 11. So what is it? Eventually we got our answer in Episode 19 but this is just like that farce with Aida in Reconguista in G and how nobody knew if Aida had gotten over Bellri killing Cahill until like 15 episodes later and even then nobody was sure if there was any kind of process to it. The way Tomino writes these particular character conflicts is so bizarre and pointlessly difficult to decipher. I guess that’s one thing Iron Blooded Orphans and Mari Okada definitely has above Tomino. Another issue is how Loran was still able to maintain his second alias as Laura with the Dianna Counter, even after the media revealed that “Laura” is a Moonrace. Harry even questioned Loran on that and I was so sure that the game was up but no, somehow Harry still managed to believe that Laura and Loran are two different people despite seeing both up close. Similar to the Dianna-Kihel switch, I was hoping the alias wouldn’t last but instead it’s persisting far longer than it has any right to.

That said, it’s not all bad. A lot actually happened in these episodes and the story maintains a relentless and energetic pace that I like (even if the content behind it isn’t great). The downfall of Inglessa was difficult to watch and it was particularly interesting to see where Guin goes after this now. I didn’t mention this before but one of the other things I liked about Guin’s character is that the story would sometimes show an underhanded side to him that suggested he could become an antagonist in the future. Guin hit it pretty hard after being fucked over by a militia he ultimately couldn’t keep under control but for now he doesn’t seem to be a bad guy, despite the hints of his underhandedness becoming stronger and stronger. I still like him and how well he is written so it’ll be interesting to see where he goes. I’m surprised he decided to make Loran the captain of Gallop (and Loran isn’t really showing good signs of being a leader) but I guess he did already make a point that he doesn’t really have an option but to give the key positions to Moonrace people and I imagine he’s banking on Loran because he’s proved himself to be trustworthy (which I’m sure Guin has decided to appreciate far more after his own militia betrayed him).

So overall, it’s not looking good. The story has taken a turn for the worse (excuse the pun), but there is plenty still to go so hopefully it will get better.

[Haak]

Episode 21-30

A fair bit better.

Harry somehow found out about the Dianna-Kihel switch but we’re never told how. If I were to guess I’d say he figured it out after Kihel (disguised as Dianna) kept emphasising to Harry how much she needs to meet “Kihel” (who is the real Dianna) and that would naturally raise a fair bit of suspicion, but ultimately we’re never really told or shown that so I can’t say for sure. It’s another example of the show being held back by Tomino’s lack of ability in exposition, but I still like Harry regardless. He strikes me as similarly nuanced as Guin Lineford. Guin is a good open-minded guy but makes it clear that he’s on the Terrans side. Similarly, Harry is a stark contrast to those that call Terrans barbarians, is very receptive to diplomacy and is far more consistent in trying to warn against killing civilians. However, ultimately he’s no pacifist who sees the Moonrace and the Terrans as one people the same way Loran does, and he is firmly on the Moonrace side. He also gets credit for having a golden mobile suit.

The loose threads with Teteth and Corin get resolved. Unfortunately neither of these characters achieved the potential they could’ve had. The reveal that Teteh had a Terran mother who was discriminated against is an interesting one but ultimately we’re told this just before her bizarre death (that was one amazing shot) rather than shown in advance. Corin gets a few interesting moments were he’s seemingly found some Forrest Gump style wisdom but it all goes down the drain when he goes psycho again and needs a lie to pacify him. The show presents this as a resolution, but really someone with his mental issues clearly shouldn’t be left wandering the world on his own (didn’t he used to be a prisoner as well?). It’s like Raraiya Monday all over again. The arc does make more hints as to how bad the Gundam must have been in the past and I assume we’ll get the full story on that later on but really that would’ve probably been a good time to explain the dark Gundam history there and then wouldn’t it?

But just when I think Corin is finally well and truly done with, along come the Red Team to ruin my day. Their first introduction was actually just their mobile suits and I was quite entertained by their menacing and overwhelming power. But then the pilots and their ridiculous personalities were revealed and I just groaned. They were so stupidly ridiculous that I was actually on the Moonrace side that discriminated against them. I wouldn’t want those annoying freaks in my camp either.

On a side note, there seems to a bit more romance forming on this part. Fran starts a relationship with Jospeh of all people. A little random but I do like the chemistry that they have so it’s not bad. There’s also the romance between Sochie and Gavane, which is kinda weird considering how much older Gavane must be. Now Sochie...she’s a really difficult case for me. I want to like her because I want to see her character develop but whilst she is developing, the development is really really slow. Imagine if Hikari from Nagi no Asukara was still this bad after 30 episodes? Sochie may not be the main character but she’s still a very important character regardless and her characterisation could be better. As for Gavane, he was neither here nor there for me so I wasn’t all that thrilled with this ship. Thankfully the ship gets destroyed in the most excessive manner possible.

And speaking of which, that moment was fantastic in portraying how terrifying nukes could be, not just from its destructive power but also from the ignorance of the Terrans who kept fighting with the nukes completely unaware of the danger and much to the horror of Zenoa. And Zenoa was a legit great character who was admirably heroic in his efforts to prevent the use of nukes, so props to Tomino there. The introduction of nukes in this story was done really well to make it a real “oh shit” moment.

Another good development is the fact that the Dianna-Kihel switch has taken a more believable turn (again, excuse the pun). Kihel is now pretending to be Dianna to the Terrans and Dianna has returned to her rightful position at the Dianna Counter, both of whom are now more heavily under suspicion (good thing they don’t have fingerprinting technology XP). But did anyone else get major yuri vibes when Dianna and Kihel reunited at episode 27? That was a really weird moment.

As for the politics, I think it’s still fairly strong if a little slower. Negotiations have stalled because there’s no united front on the Terrans side for the Dianna counter to negotiate with. Because of this, Dianna counter is running out of food, causing Moonrace citizens to emigrate to Terran villages (well foreshadowed from the “Loran’s Cow” episode) and even the Terran militia (there’s even a people smuggling network for this purpose). Guin has become increasingly ambitious and plans to unite Ameria under his banner. I like how clever he’s been in doing this: He’s made use of the situation at Dianna Counter to siphon off technicians to work at his base and at the same time strike deals with the Dianna Counter to have them focus their attacks on the Luzianna militia. He also understands that negotiations aren’t going to go anywhere if there’s a force on the moon that keeps undermining them so he’s farsighted enough to attempt to a travel to the moon and deal with them. Meanwhile, Loran has enough foresight to realise that this is actually an opportunity to get rid of the nukes as safely as possible.

[Haak]

Anybody still here?

Episode 31-40

Same as the last ten episodes, these next ten episodes are also good and packed with lots of developments but it’s often held back by some questionable writing.

It starts off well enough when it’s established that Phil has well and truly taken over Dianna Counter and Dianna has to rely on a totally-not-shady-looking character called Midgard (who I presume is the amazing shooter that killed Teteh) for her escape. But it also focuses on Lt Poe, who is a bit of a mixed bad for me. I do find her crybaby antics a little amusing, but on the other hand it was her finger that caused the deaths of hundreds and possibly thousands of people in the second episode and which caused such a gigantic mess in the first place. In any case she falls ill due to overworking herself and has to bear the indignity of being nursed back to health by Lady-killer Harry through a kiss. I probably would have found that scene funnier if it hadn’t technically counted as sexual abuse. The episode threatened to go bad when the Red Team just coincidentally happened to be at seashore to see Dianna on a boat, but thankfully they didn’t take over the episode and it survived in spite of them. The highlight was Sochie and Loran teaming up to defeat Poe’s ship. After 30 episodes of Sochie being an arse, it’s great to see her finally mellow out and mature into someone much more likeable. It was a long wait and perhaps it should have come earlier but at least it was worth it. I genuinely cheered when I saw them working so well together.

It then leads into a side plot introduced in the taking over of Manuipich. The side plot of the Adeskans is interesting in its own right and does expand on the world setting, but the placement in the overall story comes across as another needless meander when it delved too much into the character drama behind the King, his loyal servant and the heir. I think it would’ve been better if there was no drama there and the arc was condensed into one episode focusing on Wilgem taking Manuipich (and didn’t feature Adeskans illogically defeating mobile suits with primitive weapons).

After that, the story turns to a new phase (yes, I know) when Wilgem takes off into a space adventure. They immediately hit into an issue when they encounter Gendarme on Zacktraeger but both, realising the precarious situation they’re in, manage to negotiate a way out. Unfortunately, it relies on Kihel and Dianna coming together to achieve this and any plot element that relies on their bizarre idea of Dianna and Kihel being one of the same feels undermined as a result. It’s just a little bit too silly as a plot device (Amazingly Sochie accepts this without any issue whatsoever) and I still struggle to see the necessity of it. I don’t see any good thematic purpose of it and I think it could’ve easily been written out with a couple of modifications to the story. At the very least it could’ve been amended so that Kihel was more reliant on Dianna’s identity. Tomino could’ve written it so that when the switch happened in the first place all those episodes ago, Harry was already clued up on the situation and decided to play up the act, train Kihel on how to act like Dianna whilst handling all or most of the administrative burden himself. Suspicions would arise but nobody would surface these issues, causing tensions until they became too apparent. This would also give Phil’s takeover of the Dianna Counter more weight as well as give Kihel more of a reason to fall in love with Harry (Speaking of which, that was actually a complete surprise to me when it was revealed in Episode 38).

Next, the story focuses on the militia adjusting to space which I thought was an interesting focus. None of Terrans in the militia ever particularly came across as trained for space travel and I did think it would be strange if they somehow managed to adapt without any issue whatsoever so it was great to see the story give focus on that and genuinely portray them as fish outside the water with Loran working overtime to correct everyone’s dangerous misconceptions. However, I did have a slight issue with the way Michael and Yanny were treated and didn’t like the way the story was sympathetic to their woes. I really hated how much they fucked over Lineford in the first arc, and Lineford’s lament that maybe he should have killed them off was reflective of how I felt.

The story then takes a super awesome twist when Harry kidnaps Kihel so that he can use her as a scapegoat against Gym to protect Dianna. I really loved how that scene played out and how angry Lineford was when it happened. It’s a new manipulative dimension to Harry’s character that makes a lot of sense and I also love how ambiguous the story is on whether or not Harry actually has feelings for Kihel too (I assume that’s intentional rather than a side effect of Tomino’s wonky writing). Unfortunately not much happens from it though. Harry hands Kihel over to Gym but it doesn’t take long for Gym to suspect that she’s not the real Dianna, thanks to Midgard’s intel. But I do appreciate Gym’s cleverness: Not only does he immediately suspect that Kihel is fake, but he actively attempts to prove it by putting Harry on the back foot and insist that “other” Dianna (who is the real Dianna) ought to be killed. Ultimately Harry’s ploy is immediately turned on its head and puts the real Dianna in more danger than the fake.

All this results in a situation where an asteroid threatens to hit a lunar city and it’s up to Loran to step up and stop it. And a good thing too because he was at risk of being overshadowed by much better characters for a long while now. To be honest, Loran hasn’t been that great of a character since the first eight episodes: He’s been way too static and there’s been little depth added to his character. Him being made captain of Gallop was a step in the right direction but ultimately it didn’t mature him into a leader as much I hoped it would. Even the last episode I watched (episode 40) was a missed opportunity as well. In this episode Loran and his friends arrive on the lunar city that he grew up in. It was a great opportunity to focus on his childhood and how he was brought up but the episode instead veers into a pointless skirmish between Loran and Gym’s soldiers. It’s another example of Tomino’s excessive tendencies of needing action wherever possible. It’s nowhere near as bad as Reconguista in G because in Turn A the fights are much shorter and the 50 episode count gives it more space to tell a story but it still drags the story at times.

Also, I still hate the Red Team.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Haak

Anybody still here?

Don't worry, Haak. I'm still with you and enjoying your review so far. Many of your points about the show match my own.

Originally Posted by Haak

Also, I still hate the Red Team.

Nobody likes the hippies, huh?

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Don't worry, Haak. I'm still with you and enjoying your review so far. Many of your points about the show match my own.

Good to know. Just out of curiosity, how is Turn A Gundam actually perceived among the fans? Was it well received/poorly received or do many share the same mixed opinions we do?

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Haak

Good to know. Just out of curiosity, how is Turn A Gundam actually perceived among the fans? Was it well received/poorly received or do many share the same mixed opinions we do?

As far as I know, it's quite well-received among non-Japanese Gundam-fans (or mecha-fans in general). Some even go as far as claiming it's a masterpiece or something along those lines (go check some Youtube reviews on it for examples). I personally think it's a better Tomino shows compared to stuff like Brain Powered, G-Reco, Victory Gundam, etc. But I guess that's not saying much, huh?

But I honestly think Turn-A is better than a series like Gundam Wing. I grew up with Wing as that one is my first, but after re-watching the show as an adult, it's just dumb (to put it mildly). Even SEED is better than that IMO.

[Ryuuoh DeltaPlus]

Originally Posted by Haak

Good to know. Just out of curiosity, how is Turn A Gundam actually perceived among the fans? Was it well received/poorly received or do many share the same mixed opinions we do?

For me, I rate Turn A as equals with Zeta Gundam. Yeah, that's how good an impression it left to me after I watched it.

And for me, the Red Team can get a bit annoying at times, but their undying loyalty is something to be commended.

[Haak]

Episode 41-50

Hahahaha...hahahaha...So...apparently the Red team died ages ago and I didn’t even know. Apparently that scene with them celebrating at the end of Episode 39 was them fated to die by drifting off into space with no hope of rescue. I did think it was awfully weird why the Red team was conspicuously absent whilst I was watching the final fifth episodes but I never would’ve thought they were killed off if I hadn’t looked it up. And to that all I can say is...good riddance. They were poor characters to begin with and I don’t think anything could save them without sacrificing consistency. Their death scene is actually pretty well written now that I think about it, but all that does is make me lament on how such a good death scene was wasted on some craptacular characters. And as far as I'm concerned their undying loyalty to a political leader they've never met before is about as commendable as a broken clock being right twice a day.

And on the subject of not paying attention to shit, I’d like to amend something else I said. Remember what I said about Kihel’s character defining speech not making any sense? Turns out Kihel wasn’t announcing the annexation of the Sun belt. She was doing the opposite: announcing that she would abandon plans to annex the Sun belt in favour of negotiations...which makes a lot more sense given how the other characters reacted. I still don’t think that scene is good but at least it’s nowhere near as bad as I thought. I don’t know why I thought it was the opposite. Maybe the subs were bad or maybe it flew by too quickly or maybe I just wasn’t paying attention at a crucial moment or any combination of the above. Whatever it is, I’m glad they did a flashback to that moment in Episode 43 because otherwise I would’ve remained ignorant forever.

Now moving on, the final ten episodes feature two arcs. The first is the confrontation between Agrippa and Gym. I quite like the idea of having to confront two big bads that are working in a symbiotic partnership, though I can’t say I fully understood their motivations (exposition not being a strong suit of Tomino). From what I could gather, Agrippa found that Dianna’s desire to resettle on Earth would only ignite conflict (technically he’s not wrong since that’s exactly what happened) and any sort of conflict would bring increased militarism which he wishes to avoid at all costs due to his fear of the Dark History and his cynical lack of faith in humanity. So he decided to consolidate his power on the moon and tried his best to cut off all ties to the Dianna Counter (and assassinate Dianna as a bonus) so that he could live in an isolated society in peace. Of course, not only does he not see the inherent hypocrisy of using less than peaceful methods to achieve his goals, as Dianna correctly points out, forcing the Moonrace to live in isolation is only delaying the inevitable and there will ultimately be ambitious characters like Guin Lineford that will eventually travel to the moon and bring conflict to the moon whether he likes it or not. In terms of big bad motivations, this is actually rather good and portrays Agrippa with believable intentions but with an equally believable myopic outlook. What I don’t understand is why he ordered Midgard to bring Dianna back when Dianna had been overthrown and locked away (something Agrippa should desire), or why he turns a complete blind eye to the fact that his own society is plenty militaristic already with Gym and his army hanging around. As for Gym, he’s just a straight up warmonger that believes humanity shines brightest during conflict though I suppose this is guided by the fact that his organisation is a military force so naturally he has no relevance in a completely peaceful society. Of course, if he wanted to fight so much then he could’ve just gone to Earth instead of staying on the moon but presumably he wanted to research Turn X first. His motivations may be simple but I still think he’s a good villain too due to how cunning and clever he can be.

In any case, Gym and Agrippa team up to capture Turn A now that its arrived at their doorstep but whatever Agrippa’s plan was from the beginning is ruined when Gym decides to go all out and force the Terran militia of having to choose between surrendering Whitedoll or sacrificing Lily, Guin and Dianna. It’s a clever and dastardly move by Gym but unfortunately its brilliance is undermined by Sweatson who seemingly replaced the Red Team in being an utter joke of a character. However, this creates a bit of friction with Agrippa who is aghast at the thought of any damage falling upon his palace. So they come to a compromise of having Turn A duel with Turn X somewhere else whilst Lily, Guin and Dianna are still held hostage.

Thankfully Harry comes to the rescue with his Golden SUMO. I loved the scene where Harry lulls a guard into a conversation about not always liking what you have to do before punching him in the face . It then allows him to collect Kihel and escaped Gym’s ship, but I disliked how Gym wasn't at all concerned about Harry’s departure and suspected nothing amiss. That was a bit of an Idiot Ball moment there. But it allows a reversal of fortunes when Harry comes to save Lily, Guin and Dianna and then single-handedly wipe the floor Sweatson’s squad (I loled so hard when Harry lost his shit after Sweatson mentioned Dianna’s arse). Meanwhile Loran duels with Gym and Harley QuinMerry Bell (who is delightfully sinister) whilst Dianna and the rest learn about the Dark History. In terms of reveals, the history lesson is a little underwhelming considering I was able to guess the whole thing ages ago. However, I do like its role in the storyline. If the Universal Century was meant to be the equivalent of World War I & II then it follows that we’d get a sequel that’d focus on preventing such a tragedy just like how the aftermath of World War I & II brought about an era of international politics that would emphasise never to let such a tragedy happen again (a lesson that is still relevant today). I also liked Loran’s duel with Gym and Merrybell which was extraordinarily tense but I hated how it ended with Gyms retreat when he could have succeeded in capturing Turn A if he was a little more persistent. The Dark History reveal also causes riots...for some reason. I thought the Moonrace already knew something about the Dark history or else why would they be hibernating and why would they desire life on Earth again? In any case Agrippa gets betrayed by Midgard after he decides Agrippa has gone out of control...and then goes out of control himself before Harry smites his arse. Okay, whatever.

And thus there is a brief peace. Dianna once again takes control of the Moonrace society and Gym can’t do anything because he’s isolated. There’s a nice little aftermath breather as Loran and co enjoy their time on the moon and a nice romantic moment between Harry and Kihel. But wait, there’s a surprising twist! Or at least it would be if Tomino hadn’t named the episode “Guin’s Betrayal”. I mean it’s been hinted for a while so it’s hardly surprisingly anyway but you could’ve at least kept me guessing XP. So Guin (who seems to be the real Char clone of this series) decides to team up with Gym after witnessing just how technologically superior the Moonrace are and desiring the same level of technology for his own country. Furthermore, he wishes to rule over a united Ameria which can only be achieved through force of arms. This is where Guin falls a little flat for me. It’s not surprising that he’d feel uneasy about another side having such a massive difference in technology even if they aren’t immediately hostile so the concept is great but the way he goes about it doesn’t feel like it adds up. In the end he isolates himself by allowing Gym to attack everyone on Earth. He takes on both the Luzianna militia and the Dianna Counter and starts a war on two fronts which is further undermined by his own incompetence when he gets handed the Idiot Ball and allows Turn A to be taken back so pathetically easily. And if Gym causing havoc and isolating Guin wasn’t a part of his plan then he should’ve still known better and should’ve learnt his lesson after he failed to control his own militia leading to Inglessa’s downfall.

The final confrontation on Earth is then undermined by a whole host of other writing issues. Dianna inexplicably returns to Dianna Counter, where despite having narrowly escaped a military coup d’état a while ago, is now welcomed back by Phil and Miran without a fuss. Corin comes back and proceeds to get handed everything to him (despite supposedly being a mentally unstable criminal) including precious screen time just so that he can spout some incredibly sexist nonsense at Sochie and Miashei before taking out Merry Bell and nothing else (I suppose it would be even worse if he actually did something more relevant though I would’ve much preferred him to just be out of the picture altogether). Screentime is further wasted on Joseph when it should be focusing on an underdeveloped Loran and the final fight between Turn A and Turn X, whilst very intense, ends anticlimactically when Turn A inexplicably wraps the whole place in a cocoon presumably to seal Turn X, though no explanation (or even any acknowledgement) is ever given for Turn A’s apparent sentience.

That said, the final confrontation did have some nice fight scenes. Lily’s increased presence was a nice twist and I liked the verbal smackdown she gave Guin at the end, after he threw her away. Guin turning out to be gay for Loran was something that I was unfortunately already spoiled on but it’s still a great twist. I thought nothing of Guin calling Loran Laura until I was told that but it really puts things into perspective.

And then the series ends on an epilogue packed with so many developments, I sorely wished it was given a whole episode to properly explain, especially the whole thing with Dianna. The ending seems to imply that Dianna is close to death due to prolonged hibernation taking a toll on her body (foreshadowed in an earlier episode) and has decided to enjoy the remainder of her life in seclusion whilst Loran looks after her. What I don’t like is that it seems as though he really does love Sochie (who is horribly underutilised and shafted through the whole remaining ten episodes) but decides to be alone with Dianna and there’s no explanation why Dianna can’t just live close to the Heim family so Loran can be with both Dianna and Sochie. If Dianna just wants to die alone and she’s very close to death then I suppose it would make sense but that doesn’t fit in with Sochie’s anguish unless Sochie was actually sad about Dianna dying and Kihel leaving. There are a lot of question marks in that epilogue and thus fails to be conclusive. What’s more is that it ends on Kihel well and truly taking over which is just downright stupid. Just being a good actor and having a similar personality as well as the same looks does not make you the equivalent of someone else and the Moonrace would be better off electing someone with actual experience and the whole glorification of benevolent Queens and Princesses is one of the worse recurring themes of the Gundam franchise.

Overall, Turn A Gundam is a solid good series and really had the potential for greatness but was let down by the execution when it came down to it. (7.8/10)

Now time to go and break DragoonKain’s legs....

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Bravo! For the good review.

About Guin, some people might disagree with me but I don’t think Guin is a straight gay. I think he is more on the delusional side. Why? Coz based on his behavior and how he treats Loran, it’s more like he wants Loran to be this “Laura”-girl that he idealized in his head. Him keep calling her Laura, Laura & Laura despite knowing his real name and that he’s a guy is a sign for me that he has a rather unhealthy desire to make Loran a girl (in his mind at least). I mean, if he’s a straight gay, first, he should’ve loved Loran for what he is: a boy with a masculine name. And not consider him a girl whenever he wants.

Also, about Dark History, it would be perfect if it only involved the UC universe, but Tomino also merged the other Alternate Universe(s) in it into a single huuuuuge and looooong timeline and claims that CC (Correct Century, Turn-A’s Timeline) is the final point of all the AU & UC series.
So basically, it goes like this:

UC -> all AUs -> CC

And, basically, each world civilization in each timeline got repeatedly destroyed by the Moonlight Butterfly that Turn-A emits from its back and humanity repeatedly started new civilization from scratch and make new timeline until it reaches CC.

I don’t know about you, but I think that doesn’t make a lick of sense and just a big BS considering how the individual AU series offer their own varied historical background and what happened in each series itself. I mean, do you believe that people will repeatedly build the Eiffel tower (and many other man-made landmarks) that looks exactly the same each time a timeline and civilization got destroyed by Moonlight Butterfly and started again for hundreds of years? I don’t buy it. And that’s just one out of many holes of the Dark/Black History concept born from Tomino’s "brilliant" ideas.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Bravo! For the good review.

About Guin, some people might disagree with me but I don’t think Guin is a straight gay. I think he is more on the delusional side. Why? Coz based on his behavior and how he treats Loran, it’s more like he wants Loran to be this “Laura”-girl that he idealized in his head. Him keep calling her Laura, Laura & Laura despite knowing his real name and that he’s a guy is a sign for me that he has a rather unhealthy desire to make Loran a girl (in his mind at least). I mean, if he’s a straight gay, first, he should’ve loved Loran for what he is: a boy with a masculine name. And not consider him a girl whenever he wants.

I just think Guin was repressed. He's gay for Loran but can't admit it to himself so he feminises Loran into Laura as a sort of Freudian defence mechanism in order to justify his feelings to himself.

Also, about Dark History, it would be perfect if it only involved the UC universe, but Tomino also merged the other Alternate Universe(s) in it into a single huuuuuge and looooong timeline and claims that CC (Correct Century, Turn-A’s Timeline) is the final point of all the AU & UC series.
So basically, it goes like this:

UC -> all AUs -> CC

And, basically, each world civilization in each timeline got repeatedly destroyed by the Moonlight Butterfly that Turn-A emits from its back and humanity repeatedly started new civilization from scratch and make new timeline until it reaches CC.

I don’t know about you, but I think that doesn’t make a lick of sense and just a big BS considering how the individual AU series offer their own varied historical background and what happened in each series itself. I mean, do you believe that people will repeatedly build the Eiffel tower (and many other man-made landmarks) that looks exactly the same each time a timeline and civilization got destroyed by Moonlight Butterfly and started again for hundreds of years? I don’t buy it. And that’s just one out of many holes of the Dark/Black History concept born from Tomino’s "brilliant" ideas.

Huh...I didn't actually catch that bit. But yeah, I don't think that makes much sense either. =/

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Haak

I just think Guin was repressed. He's gay for Loran but can't admit it to himself so he feminises Loran into Laura as a sort of Freudian defence mechanism in order to justify his feelings to himself.

So you think he's still in the stage of (gay) denial? Hmm... that's also possible.

Originally Posted by Haak

Huh...I didn't actually catch that bit. But yeah, I don't think that makes much sense either. =/

Some of it is explained via side materials, interviews and Gunpla manuals. But even in the show itself, you can see clips from Gundam X, Gundam Wing and G Gundam when Dianna & Kihel opened the Dark History data, which means the AUs are part of the Dark History. And when the archaeologist-gramp Sid was checking some mecha blue-prints from the Moonrace data, you can see the blueprint of Fuunsaiki (the mecha horse from G Gundam) among other things. Furthermore, the claw on the right hand of Turn-X that can shoot beam as well as produce a beam saber is actually a Shining Finger (again, a tech from G Gundam).

[Rising Dragon]

Dark History is actually a bit more complicated than that, thanks to the introduction of G-Reco. Tomino explained that G-Reco actually takes place 500 years after Turn A Gundam, and that timeline placement concerning the Dark History is pretty murky and not terribly linear... or something along those lines.

https://nekketsunikki.wordpress.com/...-after-turn-a/

It's basically a mess.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Dark History is....

.....basically a mess.

Definitely agree with this .