Steins;Gate - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

In watching all of the following:

1) Pro boxing matches
2) UFC matches
3) Fights break out in pro hockey games (such fights being mostly grabs, pulls, and punches)

I find it very hard to believe that a lone punch has any plausible chance to be lethal. (I also was in a few minor scraps as a kid/teenager, but I don't think I ever took or delivered a punch straight to the face, in fairness).

Maybe once in a blue moon if there is a massive strength/durability difference between the person delivering the punch and the one receiving it, I can see it possibly killing a person. But Moeka clearly is not a total weakling relative to Okabe, or he would have simply taken the phone from her during their mutual pulling contest for it (the fact that Okabe wasn't able to do so means that Moeka must at least be close to Okabe in overall strength level).

The punch was a good, hard one yes. But can we please drop the pretense that it had any realistic chance of being lethal? That pretense is really pushing it a bit.

One punch KOs do occur. And a KO is more dangerous than being put to sleep, which (unless held longer than necessary with explicit intent to hurt somebody) results in zero permanent damage.

I never said the punch had a realistic chance of being lethal, because the blood choke, barring explicit intent or the user being a jackass, has zero chance of it either. However, a single punch can easily be unexpectedly damaging, especially when the victim is someone unused to combat. Concussive blows can lead to Alzheimer's whereas with blood chokes zero deleterious effects have been recorded and there have been zero directly attributable deaths in the entire history of Judo.

This discussion is OT. Seems like certain individuals are just using a one-liner from a wikipedia article to exaggerate the lethality of choking. Accidental death is possible with methods which directly constrict the trachea, but the blood choke by its very nature (because the only way you can kill is by holding it too long i.e. knowing the correct execution of it) is not lethal except by way of intention.

[Alucard24]

Ok, she doesn't believe other but the mail came from her own phone, just like the first one. Why believing the one saying "the IBN is there" and not the one "it's a trap !" (copyright amiral ackbar) ?

[arson88]

because Moeka doesn't have a goal in life other than finding the IBN so it is worth a shot for her to search the IBN. Unless Okabe spam mail D-Mails with one thousand different locations but since it is Moeka she will probably search all of them. The spam D-Mail have to be sent before or in-between Moeka's D-Mail.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

One punch KOs do occur. And a KO is more dangerous than being put to sleep, which (unless held longer than necessary with explicit intent to hurt somebody) results in zero permanent damage.

I never said the punch had a realistic chance of being lethal, because the blood choke, barring explicit intent or the user being a jackass, has zero chance of it either. However, a single punch can easily be unexpectedly damaging, especially when the victim is someone unused to combat. Concussive blows can lead to Alzheimer's whereas with blood chokes zero deleterious effects have been recorded and there have been zero directly attributable deaths in the entire history of Judo.

This discussion is OT. Seems like certain individuals are just using a one-liner from a wikipedia article to exaggerate the lethality of choking. Accidental death is possible with methods which directly constrict the trachea, but the blood choke by its very nature (because the only way you can kill is by holding it too long i.e. knowing the correct execution of it) is not lethal except by way of intention.

Sol, repeated concussive blows over the course of years will lead to Alzheimers. Unless Moeka is a proffesional boxer there's no need to worry in the slightest.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Haak

Sol, repeated concussive blows over the course of years will lead to Alzheimers. Unless Moeka is a proffesional boxer there's no need to worry in the slightest.

http://www.theheadinjurysite.com/new...l-it-takes.htm

As far as Alzheimer's, three concussions is enough to be associated with a five-fold increase in risk factor. A single punch is not insignificant.

[ookamigirl]

Okabe is still at it. It's a shame he has to undo all D-mails to save her and now even Moeka paid the price of that, the first time around. Things went to a whole new level of complicated.

[Soconfused]

*wonders into steins gate forum* "o hey new episode has a ton of new posts I wonder wh-"

*reads first page* "....oh...."

Anyways, sucks that Moeka is the "crazy obsessed" type, as she's easily the hottest chick in the series. Or maybe that adds to the hotness....

Good shit to Okabe, haven't been a fan of the guy for most of the series, but he's manning up, doing what needs to be done. The only black mark on this episode is the slight foreshadowing of Moeka falling for Okabe, seeing as he's gonna be the first person to ever treat her nice, which is exactly how I said this would go down in the last episode thread, and it makes me want to vomit. Okabe is slowly but surely completing his Harem, well done sir. Only the child hood friend remains, they can be tough.

[Elestia]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

http://www.theheadinjurysite.com/new...l-it-takes.htm

As far as Alzheimer's, three concussions is enough to be associated with a five-fold increase in risk factor. A single punch is not insignificant.

awareness of the devastating effects that can result from a powerful punch, including serious head injuries and even death in some cases.

So, yeah. Unless you can prove Okabe is a professional boxer or has been training to be the next heavy weight champion your point is moot.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Elestia

So, yeah. Unless you can prove Okabe is a professional boxer or has been training to be the next heavy weight champion your point is moot.

Could we stop with the wilful ignorance. "Powerful" =/= heavyweight boxer. Here's a clue: boxers wear gloves. You couldn't seriously try to claim that the 16 deaths in one year in one town were all the work of 'professional boxers' .

What boxers do, with gloves: cause Alzheimer's. What random streetbrawlers do, aged 18-35: cause death and major head injuries.

[Kaos!]

Regardless of the method Okabe uses, does it seriously matter how he got his handphone?

I would even say logically, the way Okabe approached Moeka right from the start was too dangerous for the following reasons:

1) Suzuha never managed to subdue Moeka on any of her attempts of assasination despite her skills. This would more or less give Okabe some knowledge on her ability when it comes to combat.

2) Okabe himself has been shown to be weak when it comes to stamina(due to lack of exercise)

3) Combining these 2 reasons, it would be a bad idea to go alone into Moeka's house, without knowledge on the chance of her having any backup nearby.

4) Making it worse, he did not bring any self defense weapon with him.(High possibility of Moeka having a gun and at least Okabe brought a fake gun with him when he tried to meet Moeka alone the last time)


With these reasons, I would say that Okabe did not give much thought on how he would approach Moeka, and when he got into a fight with Moeka, I doubt he would even give a second thought in the middle of the struggle of what would happen to her if he punched her instead subduing her.

Also, Moeka's death is more or less certain, so there's no point in talking about the consequences of any methods.

Spoiler for Kurisu's advice during the fight not shown in the anime:

She even advised along the lines of "If what you're saying is correct(regarding Mayuri), at the worst scenerio, just kill her. She's fated to be dead and you can always use time leap to undo anything"

[Elestia]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Could we stop with the wilful ignorance. "Powerful" =/= heavyweight boxer. Here's a clue: boxers wear gloves. You couldn't seriously try to claim that the 16 deaths in one year in one town were all the work of 'professional boxers' .

What boxers do, with gloves: cause Alzheimer's. What random streetbrawlers do, aged 18-35: cause death and major head injuries.

Right, cause most boxers and streetbrawlers throw punches when their on their back . Fact is, punches thrown from a prone position is less effective than when compared to a standing punch, which unsurprisingly how Okabe threw his punch. That means your argument is moot, because adding to the fact Okabe is not physically strong, was on his backside when he threw the punch, and the added dramatic effects to highlight the punch does not make your argument very convincing.

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by Kaos!

Regardless of the method Okabe uses, does it seriously matter how he got his handphone?

I would even say logically, the way Okabe approached Moeka right from the start was too dangerous for the following reasons:

1) Suzuha never managed to subdue Moeka on any of her attempts of assasination despite her skills. This would more or less give Okabe some knowledge on her ability when it comes to combat.

2) Okabe himself has been shown to be weak when it comes to stamina(due to lack of exercise)

3) Combining these 2 reasons, it would be a bad idea to go alone into Moeka's house, without knowledge on the chance of her having any backup nearby.

4) Making it worse, he did not bring any self defense weapon with him.(High possibility of Moeka having a gun and at least Okabe brought a fake gun with him when he tried to meet Moeka alone the last time)

1) Suzuha never actually went head to head with Moeka. In all the fights Suzuha took down the 5 guys before Moeka can react to stop her when she had an opening. Thus it's actually fair to say that Moeka's fighting ability is well below Suzuha.

2) He's just bad at running, but he's not weak, he's managed to carry a CRT TV himself in episode one. So he's got a bit of strength in him.

3) Obake has the advantage of knowing that he is definitely not going to die that day due to the Attraction Field theory which sealed his fate such that his can only die 15 years later in the Alpha timeline, plus he had already "lived" through this day on this time line to prove that he would 100% not die. So whatever happens, the Attraction Field would make sure that he's going to be ok this day.

4) Putting this together yes he was reckless, but not unreasonable, with his approach. Since it's almost like he is going into a game with God-mode switched on.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Soconfused

Okabe is slowly but surely completing his Harem, well done sir. Only the child hood friend remains, they can be tough.

You are conveniently forgetting the part where Okabe and/or the girl have to sacrifice something to reach what Okabe wants in the end, (Mayuri being alive). So, no, it looks like a harem but it definitely is not. Tenchi Muyo steins;gate is not.

[Kaos!]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

1) Suzuha never actually went head to head with Moeka. In all the fights Suzuha took down the 5 guys before Moeka can react to stop her when she had an opening. Thus it's actually fair to say that Moeka's fighting ability is well below Suzuha.

2) He's just bad at running, but he's not weak, he's managed to carry a CRT TV himself in episode one. So he's got a bit of strength in him.

3) Obake has the advantage of knowing that he is definitely not going to die that day due to the Attraction Field theory which sealed his fate such that his can only die 15 years later in the Alpha timeline, plus he had already "lived" through this day on this time line to prove that he would 100% not die. So whatever happens, the Attraction Field would make sure that he's going to be ok this day.

4) Putting this together yes he was reckless, but not unreasonable, with his approach. Since it's almost like he is going into a game with God-mode switched on.

1) Point conceded since I was quite impressed by her bullet dodging skill in the anime.

Spoiler for Suzuha vs Moeka in the game:

Which makes me realise why would White Fox give her extremely good reflexes(bullet dodging skill) while she would take quite some time(around 5 guys) to point her gun at Suzuha

2) Which is why I mentioned stamina.

3) Death is more or less certain when it comes to Attractor Field theory. However, that doesn't stop him from getting captured. Also, regarding his knowledge on his own invulnerability

Spoiler for Okabe in game:

As far as I remember, the only time he thought about it(and used the idea) was at the last chapter. While this story is told from Okabe's POV, does it mean we know everything he thought about?

My original intent(despite going out of topic) was to point out since Moeka is certain to die on the 15th(4 days later since the struggle took place on 11th), it doesn't matter what happened to Moeka during the struggle as long as the aim is achieved(Snatching the handphone).

[dark998]

A very intense episode, probably the first of its kind in this series.

[kitten320]

I'm amazed by that old lady... so much shouting and then she sees a random guy on top of her neighbour and thinks they are couple?
Rape is what was running through my head at that scene, definetly not couple quarrel!

[LKK]

Originally Posted by kitten320

I'm amazed by that old lady... so much shouting and then she sees a random guy on top of her neighbour and thinks they are couple?
Rape is what was running through my head at that scene, definetly not couple quarrel!

I always thought that she saw what she wanted to see, namely a situation where she didn't want to get involved. It's easy to convince yourself that something is less serious than it really is if you don't want to get involved in the first place.