[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 4 Alliance of the golden witch

[Tjfarmer]

Ronove = Jessica, Gaap = George. The whole fight scene is a metaphor for a huge mental battle where they must decide what they should do next.

PROVE ME WRONG.

[ijriims]

Originally Posted by Tjfarmer

Ronove = Jessica, Gaap = George. The whole fight scene is a metaphor for a huge mental battle where they must decide what they should do next.

PROVE ME WRONG.

Who killed them then? And why should they consider killing themselves?

And indeed what they heard in the phone was tests for the cousins. If all things were just metaphors, then how could the tests be conducted ( and even begun) at all? A briefcase on the floor again?

[Kakkou]

Originally Posted by ijriims

Who killed them then? And why should they consider killing themselves?

And indeed what they heard in the phone was tests for the cousins. If all things were just metaphors, then how could the tests be conducted (begun) at all? A briefcase on the floor again?

They were both actually fighting each other without knowing the others identity, and Gaap's trick hole is symbolic to one of them either accidentally blowing their cover or intentionally to throw the other off. The result is Jessica being mortally wounded and George dead... at least thats the idea I had from that scene.

[Neofio3]

Originally Posted by ijriims

Who killed them then? And why should they consider killing themselves?

And indeed what they heard in the phone was tests for the cousins. If all things were just metaphors, then how could the tests be conducted ( and even begun) at all? A briefcase on the floor again?

Technically, anyone could kill them. All the people held prisoner have no alibis, as far as I'm concerned. Any one of them could be the culprit (really, Shannon, Kanon and Kyrie being in the same group, a group where a likely suspect is present?)

What's almost certain is that they didn't kill each other, given the locations of both their bodies. Even if someone moved them postmortem, there would have been no reason to, given that there is nothing suspicious at all in the condition of George's corpse, which is completely mystery-free (it was pretty clear-cut. He got shot out in the open). Only Jessica's corpse raises eyebrows.

[Tsuyi]

After reading through episode 4 again, it really made me think about that part in which Beatrice says things like, "Asumu is not Battler's mother," "You are the only person on this island," "I am not you, yet I am here, and I will kill you," and "who am I" Which leads me to wonder if Beatrice is actually Battler's mother? >_>; I'm not good at making up those kinds of stories as to how to explain this, but it's been brought up, right?

Also, if a person was to say, on a boat or something near the island, except on the ocean, would they still be a part of the 18 people head count? Is this really impossible during a typhoon?

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by Tsuyi

After reading through episode 4 again, it really made me think about that part in which Beatrice says things like, "Asumu is not Battler's mother," "You are the only person on this island," "I am not you, yet I am here, and I will kill you," and "who am I" Which leads me to wonder if Beatrice is actually Battler's mother? >_>; I'm not good at making up those kinds of stories as to how to explain this, but it's been brought up, right?

No one knows who Battler's real mother is. However, Asumu did have a child that was also named Ushiromiya Battler.

I hope Beatrice and Battler end up being not related. I want to see them together.

Originally Posted by Tsuyi

Also, if a person was to say, on a boat or something near the island, except on the ocean, would they still be a part of the 18 people head count? Is this really impossible during a typhoon?

It's possible that person X is involved with all this but how would you feel if Ryukishi ends up writing that person X is the cause of the murders?

I think the overwhelming majority of readers who have thought about long enough realize that there isn't a person X and that the solution involves only the people who have been introduced already on the island. I'm not saying it's not possible but I think it's more difficult and fun to try to come with scenarios using only the people we know are already on the island.

[Ithekro]

Though Meta-Beatrice isn't real. Neither is Meta-Battler. So in that respect, whoever "Beatrice" is doesn't matter (in terms of shipping) since neither Meta character is going home. Logic suggests that either they both disappear (Beatrice sleep forever, and Meta-Battler rejoins piece Battler with only that pieces knowledge of events) or Meta-Battler becomes like Bern and Lambda...a Voyager Witch. With the side possibility that Meta will continue without the game, and thus Beatrice and Battler will have to find new ways to keep from being poisoned by boredom.

[Tsuyi]

Originally Posted by Ssol

No one knows who Battler's real mother is. However, Asumu did have a child that was also named Ushiromiya Battler.

I hope Beatrice and Battler end up being not related. I want to see them together.

I feel the same, I like Battler and Beato together xD but it really made me wonder why she would bring up the fact that he isn't his mother's biological child unless it was somewhat significant info at the time. Otherwise it would be kind of random imo...

Originally Posted by Ssol

It's possible that person X is involved with all this but how would you feel if Ryukishi ends up writing that person X is the cause of the murders?

I think the overwhelming majority of readers who have thought about long enough realize that there isn't a person X and that the solution involves only the people who have been introduced already on the island. I'm not saying it's not possible but I think it's more difficult and fun to try to come with scenarios using only the people we know are already on the island.

I'm not saying a person X is involved. I wanted to make some sense of the "I am not you, yet I will kill you" sentence she spoke of. The only explanation I could think of...is that a human Beato or someone else already introduced is somewhere near the island, yet not on it. The 'person' Battler is talking to, might it be a dressed up corpse, or doll with some sort of device attached to it, projecting the voice of Beato who is not on the island? Considering he is talking to her during a hurricane, sight and sound would can be difficult to be distinguished anyway. Maybe there is also some sort of device like a bomb attached to it, and it sets off at the command of the person near but not on the island. Therefore, Battler would be the only person on the island, but would technically be killed by the person who detonates the bomb...If such telecommunication devices did not exist at the time, then perhaps she went Lelouch-style and made a recording of her voice? Haha.

[Jan-Poo]

Nope, interference from outside were denied in red, including radio waves.

After reading through episode 4 again, it really made me think about that part in which Beatrice says things like, "Asumu is not Battler's mother," "You are the only person on this island," "I am not you, yet I am here, and I will kill you," and "who am I" Which leads me to wonder if Beatrice is actually Battler's mother? >_>;

That though occurred to me as well, but seeing at how many hints are there about a romantic relationship between Beatrice and Battler I prefer to think this is not the case ^^;;;

[LyricalAura]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Nope, interference from outside were denied in red, including radio waves.

Although that's only after everyone else was dead, so radio waves would be okay at the time of Battler's test. They're just disallowed for directly activating a trap to kill him. (Would the red also disallow an automatically activated trap, or a trap that was triggered remotely before the red was recited?)

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by Tsuyi

I'm not saying a person X is involved. I wanted to make some sense of the "I am not you, yet I will kill you" sentence she spoke of. The only explanation I could think of...is that a human Beato or someone else already introduced is somewhere near the island, yet not on it. The 'person' Battler is talking to, might it be a dressed up corpse, or doll with some sort of device attached to it, projecting the voice of Beato who is not on the island? Considering he is talking to her during a hurricane, sight and sound would can be difficult to be distinguished anyway. Maybe there is also some sort of device like a bomb attached to it, and it sets off at the command of the person near but not on the island. Therefore, Battler would be the only person on the island, but would technically be killed by the person who detonates the bomb...If such telecommunication devices did not exist at the time, then perhaps she went Lelouch-style and made a recording of her voice? Haha.

What if "Ushiromiya Battler" is meant to be interpreted metaphorically in the final challenge? If Battler represents the possibility for the mystery to be solved then "I will now kill you" could mean that at 24:00 on October 5 there no longer exists a possibility for the mystery to be solved. "You are all alone on this island." could mean that he's the only one left that doesn't want to accept Beatrice's existence.

[Tsuyi]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Nope, interference from outside were denied in red, including radio waves.

I see...then how about if the person who set up the doll was someone who had already died on the island? Would that qualify as a trap, or...? What exactly does 'interference' mean? Why are we assuming it includes radio waves?

[Tsuyi]

Originally Posted by Ssol

What if "Ushiromiya Battler" is meant to be interpreted metaphorically in the final challenge? If Battler represents the possibility for the mystery to be solved then "I will now kill you" could mean that at 24:00 on October 5 there no longer exists a possibility for the mystery to be solved. "You are all alone on this island." could mean that he's the only one left that doesn't want to accept Beatrice's existence.

You mean his name being a metaphor for the the mystery...? I don't understand xD You're saying that "You are alone" could be interpreted as something other than being the only person physically alive on the island? But if that is true, doesn't that leave open an infinite amount of things that Battler is alone in? Like, he alone is the only one with red hair on the island D8

[Jan-Poo]

-Nothing outside the island can interfere in any way.

radiowaves aren't "nothing", right? Plus in a previous instance when Beatrice denied interferences from outside a closed room, she specifically said that radio waves were included.

I think it is expecting too much from Beatrice to be overly detailed. The story would also be pretty boring if she had to made a list of all the things that are included in every definition every time.

A trap however wasn't denied. still it would be sad if Battler didn't use his favorite blue counter in such a situation the only time it is actually the solution.

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by Tsuyi

You mean his name being a metaphor for the the mystery...? I don't understand xD You're saying that "You are alone" could be interpreted as something other than being the only person physically alive on the island? But if that is true, doesn't that leave open an infinite amount of things that Battler is alone in? Like, he alone is the only one with red hair on the island D8

You're right, but this is some kind of a riddle. There doesn't appear to be any logical answer without twisting some of the words around.

[Tsuyi]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

-Nothing outside the island can interfere in any way.

radiowaves aren't "nothing", right? Plus in a previous instance when Beatrice denied interferences from outside a closed room, she specifically said that radio waves were included.

I think it is expecting too much from Beatrice to be overly detailed. The story would also be pretty boring if she had to made a list of all the things that are included in every definition every time.

A trap however wasn't denied. still it would be sad if Battler didn't use his favorite blue counter in such a situation the only time it is actually the solution.

The radio-waves wouldn't be an 'interference' though...it's not like radio-waves are the things that are going to kill Battler. Isn't that like saying the typhoon isn't interfering with the island because it's not ON it? Well the typhoon is certainly interfering with the island while not killing Battler, aren't radio-waves the same? I couldn't find any red text in previous games that specifically said anything about radiowaves either. But if we are going by red text of previous games applying to this game,

Spoiler for Episode 5?:

What about the portrait-girl of Episode 5?

Haha, the answer is totally small bombs ;-;

[Ithekro]

It would take more than "small" bombs to kill Battler. Need a regular sized, World War II vintage, iron bomb, that is still live, but didn't explode previously...to be on the island. Since the mansion was built after the war, there is the chance one still exists. Those islands were along the main bomber flight path from say Saipan to Tokyo...and Iwo Jima is down the chain somewhere from this Island. It could also be an old Japanese bomb if they use to run drills in this area. But that is beyond my knowledge.

[Jan-Poo]

The radio-waves wouldn't be an 'interference' though...it's not like radio-waves are the things that are going to kill Battler

Didn't you just imagine that those radiowaves would set off a bomb? In that case imho they do cause Battler to die. Also a person that uses a remote control from outside the island to set off a bomb inside the island how can be said to be not interfering from outside? That's quite a twisted logic to say otherwise imho. What else interfering from outside would mean? It's not like you can throw a knife at battler from outside the island, it is quite obvious that Beatrice was talking about long distance communication devices.

[Neofio3]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Didn't you just imagine that those radiowaves would set off a bomb? In that case imho they do cause Battler to die. Also a person that uses a remote control from outside the island to set off a bomb inside the island how can be said to be not interfering from outside? That's quite a twisted logic to say otherwise imho. What else interfering from outside would mean? It's not like you can throw a knife at battler from outside the island, it is quite obvious that Beatrice was talking about long distance communication devices.

There's nothing stopping radio waves from inside the island though. This is obviously another application of the "trap" hypothesis. Or alternatively, it might not even be a trap at all. Say, Battler opens the fridge, causing a power surge that triggers an explosion.

On the other hand, the bomb idea, while far-fetched, is at least plausible as a possible lethal trap. Shotguns pointed at precise positions loaded with stakes just seems too... contrived, to be a viable trap method. Believable traps aren't Rube Goldberg machines.

[Tsuyi]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Didn't you just imagine that those radiowaves would set off a bomb? In that case imho they do cause Battler to die. Also a person that uses a remote control from outside the island to set off a bomb inside the island how can be said to be not interfering from outside? That's quite a twisted logic to say otherwise imho. What else interfering from outside would mean? It's not like you can throw a knife at battler from outside the island, it is quite obvious that Beatrice was talking about long distance communication devices.

Wait, noo I thought we were talking about radio-waves as in some kind of device like telecommunication/cellphones, like someone from outside was communicating with him without actually being on the island. My language skills are poor, I'm sorry xD I didn't mean the waves set off a bomb or anything (I don't know the mechanics for that type of thing.) I imagined the bomb to be some sort of timed device. The bomb to kill him, and the radio-waves, being a part of the talking, unrelated to his death.