Vivid Strike! - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[TwoZeroTwo]

Well, a little late on the draw but I have to agree with everyone that that was a great episode and a really good 'twist' of sorts - Rinne falling out of the tournament before getting to face Fuuka there. Hopefully she stays out - I'll be disappointed if some contrived plot device happens to put Rinne back in the tournament.

I don't think this is the lowest point for Rinne and maybe Jill. I think one of them will do something in the next episode or so to make things worse. We just have a bit too much left in the runtime for this moment to be when Rinne comes around, and Fuuka still needs to get in there and do something herself.

Honestly, I really love the very ending of the episode - Fuuka is getting introduced as an up-and-coming star, and then it cuts back to Rinne alone just for, like, one shot. The episode could have ended with Fuuka's part but it really wanted to drive home just where their opposing paths have taken them - Fuuka doing well (so far) and Rinne possibly done for. I mean, of course we know how this plot formula goes, but maybe in an alternate universe...

[fallendrgmaster]

Originally Posted by TwoZeroTwo

Well, a little late on the draw but I have to agree with everyone that that was a great episode and a really good 'twist' of sorts - Rinne falling out of the tournament before getting to face Fuuka there. Hopefully she stays out - I'll be disappointed if some contrived plot device happens to put Rinne back in the tournament.

I don't think this is the lowest point for Rinne and maybe Jill. I think one of them will do something in the next episode or so to make things worse. We just have a bit too much left in the runtime for this moment to be when Rinne comes around, and Fuuka still needs to get in there and do something herself.

Honestly, I really love the very ending of the episode - Fuuka is getting introduced as an up-and-coming star, and then it cuts back to Rinne alone just for, like, one shot. The episode could have ended with Fuuka's part but it really wanted to drive home just where their opposing paths have taken them - Fuuka doing well (so far) and Rinne possibly done for. I mean, of course we know how this plot formula goes, but maybe in an alternate universe...

Ya, I fully expect Rinne is out of the tournament. I think we might actually get to see a bit more of a fight out of Fuuka's next oppenent before she wins the match. Then probably Einheart winning the tourney before Rinne and Fuuka's gym match.

I gotta say though I was laughing my ass off when Rinne thought Vivio was a spoiled little rich girl with no reason to be tough. Would love to see her learn the truth about that but I have a feeling we won't see that in this anime.

I figure the Nanoha / Fate thing was probably more of a perspective thing, since Rinne has no clue who they are. I understand they likely don't have either voice actress signed up for the series especially considering the contract issues that spawned this series. But it seems silly to purposely avoid showing them in the shot unless it was perspective considering how many characters from the main show are still around.

[4th Dimension]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Considering the ending of StrikerS Vivio is surprisingly well adjusted despite her traumatic experiences.

It was one of the things that I did not like about StrikerS ending and Vivid, how much Vivio, Ginga and Subaru are buddy buddy with people who just a while ago dragged them through hell. I guess for Vivio it's understandable since she is a kid and time heals kids scars quickly. Rinne does have point that Vivio is surrounded by a ridiculous amount of people supporting her.

Originally Posted by TwoZeroTwo

I don't think this is the lowest point for Rinne and maybe Jill. I think one of them will do something in the next episode or so to make things worse. We just have a bit too much left in the runtime for this moment to be when Rinne comes around, and Fuuka still needs to get in there and do something herself.

Honestly, I really love the very ending of the episode - Fuuka is getting introduced as an up-and-coming star, and then it cuts back to Rinne alone just for, like, one shot. The episode could have ended with Fuuka's part but it really wanted to drive home just where their opposing paths have taken them - Fuuka doing well (so far) and Rinne possibly done for. I mean, of course we know how this plot formula goes, but maybe in an alternate universe...

Oh Rinne is ripe for doing something incredibly reckless and stupid considering that in her addled state of mind she probably thinks she is back to square one. She got defeated again despite her training, meaning (to her) she is weak (Jill's philosophy is not helping here), and Fuka if she wins her fight has not only caught up to her but overtaken her. Again.

Originally Posted by fallendrgmaster

Ya, I fully expect Rinne is out of the tournament. I think we might actually get to see a bit more of a fight out of Fuuka's next oppenent before she wins the match. Then probably Einheart winning the tourney before Rinne and Fuuka's gym match.

I figure the Nanoha / Fate thing was probably more of a perspective thing, since Rinne has no clue who they are. I understand they likely don't have either voice actress signed up for the series especially considering the contract issues that spawned this series. But it seems silly to purposely avoid showing them in the shot unless it was perspective considering how many characters from the main show are still around.

The show better make the next opponent believably strong because so far Fuka has not really pushed and challenged to show her strength and skill and here she is fighting one of the 8 best for the spot among 4 best (right? or is it 16->8?). Even if it's later one of the 16 best better be able to push a newbie and punish her inexperience.

Could be it's perspective, but than again Nanoha is supposedly a minor celebrity or at least known of in the circles of people interested in magic combat. Maybe they don't know all the details of her exploits, but they know she did stuff, and given her instructor background her daughter is unlikely to be a weakling. On the gripping hand Vivid has been running away from that fact from the start to the point that Einhart, a person obsessed with proving superiority of her combat style, did not know of her or recognize her.

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

As has been said, I myself must say it's a little sad how off Rinne's assessment of Vivio is.

As a person to whom StrikerS!Vivio was that "moe blob" that never caught my heart and looked like a waste of screentime, let me put up Rinne's side here. Even if she knew every minute of Vivio's tragedies we do, I'm not sure how sympathetic she'll be because Vivio's experiences may be vivid but they are also short. Maybe a couple of days wandering around before she was picked up. Another day or so as the Sankt Kaiser of which she probably remembered the first ten minutes and the last 5 minutes with any clarity. She was damaged, but that meant losing her McGuffin and she's still not badly placed in any aspect of life. Every other day was great.

Really? You won't trade off years of misery that you remember very clearly with maybe 2 nightmarish days that you don't?

They did a lot better job making me feel for Rinne than StrikerS ever did with any of its characters, and of all those characters, Vivio was the least sympathetic.

[Random Wanderer]

Allow me to interject with something I learned from The Twelve Kingdoms. Suffering is not a competition. You do not "win" by having suffered more than someone else. You do not "lose" by having suffered less. Just because you've suffered less than someone else, that does not make your own trauma irrelevent. Just because you've suffered more than someone else, that does not make their trauma irrelevent. For each person the things they've suffered through leave an indelible mark upon their soul.

Both Vivio and Rinne have gone through things that no child should ever have to suffer through. It does not matter which one suffered more. Just because Vivio went through that hell when she was younger does not mean Rinne's own pain is invalid, and that Rinne should "suck it up" and act like nothing ever happened to her. Nor does Rinne's pain render Vivio's experiences and the wisdom she gained from them invalid.

What matters here is that Rinne misjudged Vivio, and used that misjudgement to justify a vicious hatred of Vivio for what she thought she represented. It's that mindset, that thought pattern that turns everyone who stands in the way of what she sees as her solution into enemies just like the bullies she nearly killed, that is the true problem.

[aldw]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Allow me to interject with something I learned from The Twelve Kingdoms. Suffering is not a competition. You do not "win" by having suffered more than someone else. You do not "lose" by having suffered less. Just because you've suffered less than someone else, that does not make your own trauma irrelevent. Just because you've suffered more than someone else, that does not make their trauma irrelevent. For each person the things they've suffered through leave an indelible mark upon their soul.

Both Vivio and Rinne have gone through things that no child should ever have to suffer through. It does not matter which one suffered more. Just because Vivio went through that hell when she was younger does not mean Rinne's own pain is invalid, and that Rinne should "suck it up" and act like nothing ever happened to her. Nor does Rinne's pain render Vivio's experiences and the wisdom she gained from them invalid.

What matters here is that Rinne misjudged Vivio, and used that misjudgement to justify a vicious hatred of Vivio for what she thought she represented. It's that mindset, that thought pattern that turns everyone who stands in the way of what she sees as her solution into enemies just like the bullies she nearly killed, that is the true problem.

The Persona Arena games also raises these points too, as just because others don't understand a person's pain doesn't invalidate it. It's when people stop caring or making an effort and communication stops that conflict arises.

[The Green One]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Allow me to interject with something I learned from The Twelve Kingdoms. Suffering is not a competition. You do not "win" by having suffered more than someone else. You do not "lose" by having suffered less. Just because you've suffered less than someone else, that does not make your own trauma irrelevent. Just because you've suffered more than someone else, that does not make their trauma irrelevent. For each person the things they've suffered through leave an indelible mark upon their soul.

Both Vivio and Rinne have gone through things that no child should ever have to suffer through. It does not matter which one suffered more. Just because Vivio went through that hell when she was younger does not mean Rinne's own pain is invalid, and that Rinne should "suck it up" and act like nothing ever happened to her. Nor does Rinne's pain render Vivio's experiences and the wisdom she gained from them invalid.

What matters here is that Rinne misjudged Vivio, and used that misjudgement to justify a vicious hatred of Vivio for what she thought she represented. It's that mindset, that thought pattern that turns everyone who stands in the way of what she sees as her solution into enemies just like the bullies she nearly killed, that is the true problem.

Well put. I agree.

[4th Dimension]

@Random Wanderer You are right. It was cruel to take sides on this. Everyone's greatest pain is the greatest pain ever. It's a subjective thing and should not be compared.

[FlareKnight]

It kind of reminds me of discussions I saw in relation to Naruto years back. I fully agree that there is no competition for suffering. There's no trophy for that. For any individual their personal horrors are legitimate and powerful. It doesn't comfort a person to know that someone went through something that an outsider would consider worse.

Terrible pasts and suffering are just...different for each person. Rinne has a past, Vivio has a past, heck Fuka has a past. There was no lacking of agony for Fuka when it basically felt like the close friend and family she had...was gone.

Moving on though. I think the interesting thing will be the aftermath. How Rinne responds to this is something that could be crazy. If she feels like she's utterly fallen back to square one...who knows what she might do in order to feel strong again. Or perhaps she collapses into a ball and can't interact with anyone.

I'm really hoping Fuka's fight is both seen and something critical. The emotional side of this story is important, but Fuka darn well needs a legitimate fight before facing Rinne. We need to see her do something more than train the whole show. I hope the fact that they didn't show her opponent isn't a sign they plan on just glossing over it and instead will make it someone capable of potentially beating her.

[4th Dimension]

Yup. Apart from the antagonists most of the cast has simply been bland so far. That is understandable for Vivio and her friends because they are frankly background characters in this show. Einhart is as always reserved and was not challenged so far so no character moments from her that stuck to mind. And Fuka despite being the MC has been a bit of a disappointment. We are 8 episodes in and I still don't know what makes her the MC. What is she good at. Most of her buildup consisted of things we were told rather than shown.

We are told, or are being led to suspect that she is strong. We are told that somehow she will master an ancient style with only one living practitioner. The second one makes things even worse because that combined with her constume makes her a cheap Einhart knockoff. AND as you say we haven't really seen her FIGHT yet. And that wouldn't have been hard to do. Have her have a sparing match that gets a bit intense with one of her fellow gym members. Then we could have an educated guess of her strenghts and weaknesses and how she copes under pressure. Hell have her have a move of her own just so she is not copying Einhart.

So yes the next fight is kind of key.

As for Rinne, what would be the most reckless thing she might do? Hmmm. It would be magnificently stupid for her to run into the ring during or after Fuka's fight and attack her or something. I don't think it will happen, but than again she is kind backed up against a wall in her mind.

Rinne needs someone... no not anyone, one of the so far useless (except for cheap laughs and as commentators) "elder" competitors get of their bums and dispenses some wisdom and experience.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

Rinne needs someone... no not anyone, one of the so far useless (except for cheap laughs and as commentators) "elder" competitors get of their bums and dispenses some wisdom and experience.

According to the preview Victoria is the one coming to do the big sis pep talk to Rinne. About time the Veterans start appearing. If Sieglinde appears I'll finally be motivated to give this proper attention.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

Yup. Apart from the antagonists most of the cast has simply been bland so far. That is understandable for Vivio and her friends because they are frankly background characters in this show. Einhart is as always reserved and was not challenged so far so no character moments from her that stuck to mind. And Fuka despite being the MC has been a bit of a disappointment. We are 8 episodes in and I still don't know what makes her the MC. What is she good at. Most of her buildup consisted of things we were told rather than shown.

We are told, or are being led to suspect that she is strong. We are told that somehow she will master an ancient style with only one living practitioner. The second one makes things even worse because that combined with her constume makes her a cheap Einhart knockoff. AND as you say we haven't really seen her FIGHT yet. And that wouldn't have been hard to do. Have her have a sparing match that gets a bit intense with one of her fellow gym members. Then we could have an educated guess of her strengths and weaknesses and how she copes under pressure. Hell have her have a move of her own just so she is not copying Einhart.

So yes the next fight is kind of key.

As for Rinne, what would be the most reckless thing she might do? Hmmm. It would be magnificently stupid for her to run into the ring during or after Fuka's fight and attack her or something. I don't think it will happen, but than again she is kind backed up against a wall in her mind.

Rinne needs someone... no not anyone, one of the so far useless (except for cheap laughs and as commentators) "elder" competitors get of their bums and dispenses some wisdom and experience.

Yeah, I think Fuka got a bit lost in the middle of the show. The start was good for her. Gang fighting, early conflict with the main cast, losing and getting a new job, etc. I thought she also had a good moment there when she and Rinne had that clash that basically set up the upcoming challenge between them and the tournament.

But, the show pulled the focus away and it hasn't quite gotten back to her yet. Rinne's flashback took priority and then the tournament fights. I do think that a few changes might have been nice. Maybe just showing the beat down she suffered from Rinne outside of just how it looked at the end. We haven't completely lacked moments, but not really full battles outside of the first episode. Saw a few moments like her taking that heavy slash during the training and yet still blocking it well enough to keep going. Still, we have 4 episodes and thus a little more than a quarter of the show to get back on track with Fuka.

Agreed that giving her a good fight here is crucial. We need to see where she is in terms of her skills and how she responds when pressured. Really have to look back to nearly getting knocked out by Vivio in the first episode for her to really struggle. Now is the time for more show than tell with her. See what she can do and see how she responds to whatever happens next with Rinne.

So yeah if Victoria is going to get involved then I'm curious to see how this all unfolds. Maybe Rinne simply collapses emotionally and retracts. Which would be the least dangerous for everyone else, but probably not for herself. Hopefully she gets a push. I don't think even Victoria intervening will resolve her problem outright. At least I hope not...then we really don't have a point for Fuka to be here . But, if she can push her to face her friend then...who knows.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

But, if she can push her to face her friend then...who knows.

I think this will be likely what will happen. Victoria doesn't know enough to completely empathize with Rinne but can motivate her to seek some answers by facing Fuuka.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

Watched episode 8:

It's past 2 in the morning, but can't resist not to watch this right away. Really a surprising comeback by Vivio there, I thought she was gonna lose.

Too sleepy to commen t further.. but here's a 10/10 for this episode.

Quoting my own post because was too sleepy to make more comments last time. xD

I like how Vivio was able to adapt to Rinne's "grab your costume so I can punch your tummy move" - at first vivi-san was punched. But the next time Rinne did that, Vivi-san just punched her twice in the face, so she had to let go.

Can' t wait for episode 9. The story is getting interesting.

[4th Dimension]

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

Can' t wait for episode 9. The story is getting interesting.

And there lies the problem. It's getting interesting 8 episodes in.

But let's just see where they go from here. They can still save this thing in my eyes

[Benigmatica]

I have to say that after watching both Eps. 7 and 8, seeing the match between Vivio and Rinne was the most intense battle ever. Ultimately though, Vivio Takamachi prevailed yet again against Rinne Berlinetta, but it seems that she can't continue fighting due to her injuries.

Meanwhile, I wonder if Rinne will have a match against Fuuka since she lost to Vivio? After all, she can't break that promise and therefore must confront her best friend! Speaking of Fuuka Reventon, I wonder if she can take the championship should she reached the finals and meet Einhart Stratos?

[MeoTwister5]

No way on hell should Fuuka come close to even beating either Vivio or Einheart. Only a Deus ex Machina could do that for her.

[4th Dimension]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

No way on hell should Fuuka come close to even beating either Vivio or Einheart. Only a Deus ex Machina could do that for her.

Well if we are perfectly honest she shouldn't be able to beat Rinne either no matter how strong she is since Rinne for all her faults does have the experience and years? of training on her side and she is on the potential champion level while Fuka is a newbie. She does have some experience street brawling so her pain tolerances are good enough to not crack under pain of opponent's blows so that is something, although given how had Rinne hits if she doesn't defend properly...

Some would argue that if Nanoha could do it so can Fuka, except in that case she didn't do it at her first attempt. She had to undergo a basically training from hell and get thwarted by Fate quite a few times until she learned through experience and training what to do and what not to do.

This is why the next match is important. It's important for the story buildup and it needs to support our suspension of disbelief that Fuka has advanced quickly to the point that she might even be able to stand her ground (probably not win) against a champion tier opponent.

[Metaneo]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

No way on hell should Fuuka come close to even beating either Vivio or Einheart. Only a Deus ex Machina could do that for her.

If Fuka manages to reach Einheart in the finals I could see her using the Championship match as a testing ground for Fuuka to show her what she's learned.

[4th Dimension]

Soo do we have to beg for the tread for the next episode to be posted? Since the subs are out?