2020 US Presidential Election Discussion (primary & general)

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Ever since it became obvious that increased turnout favors Democrats, there's been a tug of war between voter suppression by Republicans, and efforts to get everyone and their dogs to vote by Democrats. That's how integrity of elections is gradually eroded and you end up with something that's neither fair or secure.

This election showed clearly that there are also lots of Republican voters, or at least Trump voters, that were not participating in prior elections. Turnout increased radically on both sides of the ledger.

[Jaden]

Yeah, what I said is a generality that people have assumed to be true. It's funny that Trump would be the one to nearly buck the trend.

He tweeted this in 2016: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...54588654092290

I've heard doom and gloom from Republicans, saying that due to demographic change, and due to voter suppression not working so well anymore, there would be an "electoral winter" for the party. That Texas will go blue, and that there will never be another Republican president or house/senate majority.

But Trump did actually kind of show them how to win. Makes sense that many Republicans don't want to lose him now, even if they disliked him before.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Jaden

But Trump did actually kind of show them how to win. Makes sense that many Republicans don't want to lose him now, even if they disliked him before.

I would have to disagree, 2020 has clearly shown that the "coalition of white men" no longer is good enough to win the USA presidency, at least not with such a hateful candidate. Of course, now that he is a position of power (which he has flippantly abused for four years) trump is trying to cheat his way to a second term, old dogs do not learn new tricks.

[Johnny Dy]

Originally Posted by Galaxian

This makes it what? The 9th time Biden wins Georgia?

10th time's the charm, I demand a.... rererererererererecount.
You could imagine if the impossible would become reality and Trump would win on the 10th time, the 9th recount, what would that than make the 1st 9 counters!? Just 9 bad days in the office?

[Sheba]

There is no low Trump can stop at

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/20/p...ump/index.html

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

I would have to disagree, 2020 has clearly shown that the "coalition of white men" no longer is good enough to win the USA presidency, at least not with such a hateful candidate. Of course, now that he is a position of power (which he has flippantly abused for four years) trump is trying to cheat his way to a second term, old dogs do not learn new tricks.

70 MILLIONS of Americans have looked at Trump and wanted FOUR MORE YEARS of that shit. 70 MILLIONS vs 75 MILLIONS. Its not that much no matter how you slice it. One of the contributing factors to that slight edge is, ironically, COVID19 and mail voting that helped minorities that would be otherwise shut down from voting through voter suppression, etc... I fear the only lessons the GOP will ever learn is to double down on the racism suppress vote harder by making mail voting even harder AND more gerrymandering.

[The Green One]

Well at least some portion of those 70 million where it's less "Four More Years" than it is anything that's not Democrat.

But no the voter suppression attempts will never end. It's disgusting how open they are about it.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Sheba

suppress vote harder by making mail voting even harder AND more gerrymandering.

The thing is that will motivate people even more, instead of "why vote? all politicians are scum" people will go "Vote or down the line you might see slavery reinstated!".

[James Rye]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

I would have to disagree, 2020 has clearly shown that the "coalition of white men" no longer is good enough to win the USA presidency, at least not with such a hateful candidate. Of course, now that he is a position of power (which he has flippantly abused for four years) trump is trying to cheat his way to a second term, old dogs do not learn new tricks.

It is good enough to keep control of the Senate though, at least most likely, as if it unlikely Dems win both seats in Georgia. And if the reps keep treating the Senate as a "grey eminence" blocking everything and blaming Dems for it then it doesn't matter who controls the White House and Congress.

[cyberdemon]

And now Trump has requested ANOTHER recount in Georgia...

[The Green One]

Long as he pays the fees for it himself.... it's his money. That he stole from his cult through "fundraising".

[SeijiSensei]

Nope, he doesn't have to pay for this one either. The first recount was actually a legislatively-mandated "risk-limiting audit." It turned into a total recount because the narrow margin required a sample nearly as large as the entire vote cast. This recount is permissible under GA law when the margin of victory is less than 0.5%. The state bears the cost.



I suspect legislators don't want to be responsible for covering the costs of a recount were their own campaigns to request one.

[Johnny Dy]

Originally Posted by The Green One

Well at least some portion of those 70 million where it's less "Four More Years" than it is anything that's not Democrat.

I don't quite get it... Anything but Democracy!? How about a clear and simple "Fuck yourself, retard"!? I think it's an order.

[Ithekro]

I imagine a number of those 70 million equate the Democratic Party as a Socialist Party. And some of them are old Boomers (or children of said Boomers) that grew up with the, Socialist equals Communist, and Communist equals enemy of America, idea. They don't equate the Democrats to Democracy, they equate them to the Enemy of Democracy, because that's basically what they were taught. That Communism is the enemy of Democracy.

[Johnny Dy]

Sure, it just doesn't make sense. It's like being thought that ethics are the enemy of morality or trees are the enemies of forests! Never mind, what they fear is losing their freedom. I too think that freedom is THE MOST important right, but we must always set the boundary between the freedom to do whatever we like and the freedom to do whatever we like to others. I've seen the movie "Salo: 120 days of Sodom" again (except the last act of the movie that's ridiculously stupid, that I've seen just the 1st time and seemed like super-retards at work, while in the rest of the movie there were just retards), and the whole idea of the movie was, quote from memory "The ultimate delight in life is the clear distinction of social class that allow us to tower upon these inferior humans that are here at our disposal to do whatever we feel like, whenever we want." Those were fascists at work and sadly enough capitalism's freedom tends towards that social disparity that communism tried to stop. I think communism has the right idea with social status, what remains to be integrated and perfected in this system is also freedom. Freedom for pretty much anything but a too wide social status discrepancy that yearns adulation of fascists principles - what these democrats haters start embracing.

PS: These democrats haters, are they truly afraid of losing their freedom, or is it their greedom!?

[Guardian Enzo]

I don't buy that this Trump movement is based on some kind of boomer anti-red hysteria. What, they aren't bothers by the fact that their leader takes his marching orders from the former head of the KGB?

This is mostly about race, and if you think otherwise you're kidding yourself. It's about less-educated white males seeing their grip on society loosened with each passing year and grasping onto a demagogue who openly panders to their paranoia and hatred. That's not all of them, certainly, but it's the engine that drives the train.

[Jaden]

I think this study was the most informative for me, regarding political positions in the US: https://perceptiongap.us/

There's a big division, but not as big as you would think from listening to certain pundits or scrolling through Twitter.

As for why so many vote for Trump, well, it's a two-party system, so just by being the candidate for one of those, you get nearly half of the votes. Only a small fraction of the population need to hop on the Trump Train in order to cause a big swing.

[Ithekro]

Considering I've been hearing it from them since the 90s, Yes they equate Democrats with Communism, and think the stories about Trump and Putin are propaganda.

The more extreme ones still believe that Obama was some sort of deep cover agent setup to destroy the United States from within.

And no you can't argue with them. I've been trying for decades. It doesn't work. It just makes you more frustrated because they believe what they believe and the other side is full of shit (at best), or actively doing psych Ops against the American people, because they (the nebulous "they ) couldn't bet us in the Cold War, or Economically, so "they" are going for long term destabilization instead. You can't argue with that, because they dismiss anything and everything that doesn't fit the view of how American is "suppose to be". And it isn't just less-educated white males. It is females. Non-whites. Educated people as well. People that worked for the Federal Government even that have at least some idea of how things work, at least on the bureaucratic levels of government. People who do study history and the news, yet come up with different conclusions that people here do. Or site more detailed parts of the news, rather than just the sound bites and short sensationalist articles most people look at. They likely pick and choose what fits their arguments, but they can come across and knowledgeable.

Remember, there are people who think Trump is the best president we've ever had (in their lifetimes).

[Sheba]

The anti-commie hysteria only work for the Cuban voters who dont give a shit about the Nicaraguan/Guatemala kids in cage, as long as Fox News tell them those are commies subhumans.

But for those past years? When White Supermacists are openly called fine people by the POTUS while they spread their hate and poison, while Cheetos sow the seeds of division and throw oil on fire via tweets, to be celebrated by channers and so-called neutrals and centrists for "showing/owning the libs"? You have no fucking excuse.

[Ithekro]

There are always excuses. That's how people are. Everyone has a reason that is their own. Its seems reasonable to them. And usually its not the one people on the Internet label them as having.

Remember the message people were following for Trump? Make American Great Again? These are people that remember when the United States was not only the World's Super Power, but that they really didn't have any economic rival at the time (since the entire rest of the civilized world had been messed up by World War II, and the Soviet Union was only a rival on the military front, not the economic front). It took a long time for the rest of the world to catch up economically, and after the fall of the Soviet Union, no one is really on par with the US militarily (at least in terms of spending...hardware is a separate issue, and the US probably is the most experience military are the moment due to the various ongoing conflicts from the War on Terror and its aftermath).

People believe in different things. If we didn't the world would be boring. Thus people have different things they see. Either in Trump, the Republicans, the Democrats, Biden. Everything.

Am I defending the extremists. No. They are causing problems. But I will defend people's right to have their own opinions and vote for what they believe in. Even if you or I don't think what they believe in is sound. A lot has happened and a lot of news stories get swept under as people forget. I don't image all that many people remember about the kids in cages. Its kind of gone from the news. Especially since COVID-19 happened and the political focus shifted to other things. Mostly what is remembered is the ideal that illegal aliens are being held.

The subtext is that some people want to remove the idea that some woman can jump across the border, push out a kid, and the kid is a US Citizen. The parents are not, and if they are here illegally, they are suppose to be deported (by law). That the kid is in the legal limbo is the issue. They are a citizen (more or less) but have no family because family is deported, but the children can't legally be deported (they are US Citizens), thus cages, because status unclear, can't send them home (legally), can't stuff them into an orphanage. So, housed on the tax payer's dime is it? Its been a while, and my memory is also fuzzy on this.

Both sides are villainizing the other side. Its unhelpful. Its what is breaking the country. If it was a PsyOp, it would be brilliant. Use Americans natural distrust of government mixed with their inherent support for "the home team" to drive their politics like its a sports team, mixed with Cold War/World War II era catch phrases about Communists and Fascists to rile people up. Do it over time to get them actively hating on each other like sports fans hate on the rival team. Wait for self destruct.....profit.

[Key Board]

speaking of psyops..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SoJ...=thejuicemedia

They called it months ago

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