2016-05-11, 09:51 | Link #181 | |
Haven't You Heard?
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South-east Asia
|
Quote:
People keep saying about how it would became hindrance when dealing with such threat like Thanos and other alien invaders while they forgot that Vision noted that its not surprising for him if majority reach conclusion which is The Accord since the number of 'superhuman' rises significantly after 2008 (a.k.a Iron Man 1) hence government want some control. Considering that, its more like government tried to made Avengers, the first superhuman group, be an example to other superhuman out there that they still need to follow regulation, convincing other normal human that they could ensure their safety regarding issue with 'superhuman' in the future. Not really something bad I thought, because if I'm one of people in MCU, I don't want to get caught in midst of Hulkbuster vs. Hulk just because they decided to put an end to Ultron ASAP. What make it worse is government chose Ross. While he is the best military personnel you could get to initiate the plan, we know what kind of person Ross is from his history dealing with Banner before Avengers. |
|
2016-05-11, 10:18 | Link #182 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
By and large, I liked the film quite a bit. It's easily in the top 3 or 4 of the MCU releases (which could be damning with faint praise), and besides some stupid character beats (Tony and Cap are almost equally as stupid through the film, and Zemo's plan, while fun, is riddled with so many 'what ifs' as to be almost statistically improbable), this was a near perfect action movie from start to finish with an insane amount of great character moments and overall positive plot progression for the series.
|
2016-05-11, 16:46 | Link #183 |
Senior Guest
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Athens (GMT+2)
Age: 35
|
Just came back from watching this. While mildly entertaining, not a great movie. Let's get to the bad first, the plot calls:
Spoiler for bad stuff:
But there's also the bright side of things! Spoiler for the good!:
I'd rate it at 6.2/10, might watch again in a year or two. |
2016-05-11, 17:58 | Link #184 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
-Don't recall what you're talking about, but it would depend on the thickness of the girder... If the girder is thicker than the length of the claws, then its gonna take more than one strike to cut through it -Hawkeye wasn't planning to fight Vision, just run away from him. He seemed to be hoping that explosion was gonna distract Vision long enough for him to get away with Wanda, along with the arrows he set up as a backup... it apparently did not distract him as long as he thought it would -One of the themes of this movie is that civilian lives DO matter. A couple dozen dead people is a very serious matter. The loss of human lives can NOT be ignored and can't just be written off as "collateral damage". And no those people would not have died anyway... the explosion from crossbones wasn't big enough to effect the people high up in that building. It was only by lifting him up there that Wanda ended up putting them in range of his bomb -Vengeance and Justice are NOT the same things. Bucky was under complete mind control when he killed Tony's parents. By all reasoning he is not truly responsible for killing them; he literately had no choice in the matter. The only ones responsible were the hydra agents that gave the winter solider the orders to attack them. To allow Tony to KILL Bucky for something he had no power over would be wrong in every single way. THAT is the difference between "Justice" and "Vengeance". Justice if bringing about fair punishment on those who have done something wrong... Vengeance is just about lashing out emotionally against anyone who you are angry at regardless of details and facts and ignoring the innocent that might be in the way. In truth, Bucky isn't really responsible for killing anyone, since everyone he killed as the winter solider he killed under complete mind control. He's not a terrorist, he's a victim. He needs help, not a death sentence. -Zemo is a former paramilitary commander and intelligence officer. He just a plain good tactician.
__________________
Last edited by Slayerx; 2016-05-11 at 21:34. |
|
2016-05-11, 18:28 | Link #185 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 38
|
It also didn't erase memories. It just let you re-experience memories in a virtual setting to allow you to cope/override them. Deep seated brainwashing ala the Faustus Method is not a repressed memory that you can just cope with.
As for Wanda's thing, while THOSE people wouldn't have died, many more would have that were encircling Cap and Crossbones' fight and were watching mere feet away. I also feel those who don't understand Bucky's plight haven't watched Jessica Jones. |
2016-05-11, 23:06 | Link #186 | |||||
Senior Guest
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Athens (GMT+2)
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Oh, adding to the list of plot calls: Spoiler for missed one:
|
|||||
2016-05-11, 23:31 | Link #187 | |
Haven't You Heard?
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South-east Asia
|
Quote:
No countries want to be used as a meteor by a someone's security system that goes haywire or having two monsters fight in the middle of the road, endangering civilian, whatever the reason is. Zemo already stated the room he used is good enough to deal with nuclear blast. I'm pretty sure both Cap's shield and Tony's repulsor not even reach that level of damage. Not to mention by how Zemo easily going outside the base while Cap and Tony fight each other, not using the same path used by Cap, Bucky and Tony, we could say its a room intended for safety purpose from start. |
|
2016-05-11, 23:43 | Link #188 | |
Senior Guest
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Athens (GMT+2)
Age: 35
|
I'd accept calling out Tony on Ultron's actions, since he is the one who caused it all, but they've saved the world from genuine disaster too. Not to mention, if Thor was there, who would dare impose such rules on an otherworldly god?
Quote:
|
|
2016-05-12, 00:21 | Link #189 | |
Haven't You Heard?
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South-east Asia
|
Quote:
Hulk cause a lot of damage for each of his action (its hard to not see Hulk not damaging any building), Ultron became proof of what happened if Tony act without control (although Wanda's mind manipulation contribute as well), Steve risk civilian by putting action into priority once the fight goes on the street--ended up blowing several people thanks to Crossbone suicide bomb; he's lucky there's Wanda assisting him, but what if Wanda weren't there or late to assist him? Sadly, the battle in airport is justifying what kind of damage they could do when things goes uncontrolled. Good thing Tony and co. already ensure the airport is empty of people but the airplanes. As for Thor, are you seriously thought there's no way to impose rules to him? Remember you're dealing with Ross here, someone who willing enough to imprisoned his own daughter if that could keep Banner in check. Ross can just do the same to Thor's girlfriend if he need to. |
|
2016-05-12, 00:30 | Link #190 | |
Senior Guest
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Athens (GMT+2)
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Let's take analyze the bombing for a second: crossbones is a suicide bomber, if the avengers weren't there, everyone in the area would have died. Since they mitigated the casualties, they should have been thanked for it - instead, they became the target of blame, as if they directly caused the bombing). Hulk is indeed dangerous, he has repeatedly stated so himself. That's pretty much why he is in self-imposed exile even now... As for the airport damage...I bet Tony's lunch money can cover that It was a pretty stupid place to start a fight though. |
|
2016-05-12, 00:52 | Link #191 | |
Haven't You Heard?
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South-east Asia
|
Quote:
Far from town and there's wide space, I don't see any problem to fight there. |
|
2016-05-12, 00:57 | Link #192 | |
User of the "Fast Draw"
|
Quote:
The UN can go ahead and ask Thor to comply with their regulations. But if he doesn't decide to....well they can either force the issue or decide it isn't worth bringing the military might of a more advanced race upon them. Only really stupid leaders would think the losses incurred by the Avengers actions is worth starting an inter-dimensional war over. And yeah no matter what Crossbones was blowing something up. Maybe not himself, maybe he only set that up in case Cap and company showed up. But they were clearly planning on doing some damage regardless of whether the Avengers showed up and had in fact already done a lot of harm in previous attacks. Unfortunately Crossbones played the situation out as best as he could have. He had his men split out which spread out the Avengers, thus no one was in a great position to really help thin out the crowd, much less evacuate local buildings. And yeah, the Bucky card worked pretty well also. May also have not expected the suicide move anyways. He had worked with this guy for quite some time in Shield and may not have considered him the type to take his own life. Plus, not sure how many suicide troops Cap really has had to deal with. Most Hydra he fought....he took down. At least I don't remember much suiciding in either of the first two Captain America films.
__________________
|
|
2016-05-12, 01:26 | Link #193 | |
Haven't You Heard?
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South-east Asia
|
Quote:
Steve himself admit that he expected that move (suicide bomb) from Crossbones, but that Bucky card is too effective. Actually, Avengers could thin out the crowd if they're working with local police or brought some team with them in case they're too busy dealing with them, similar to how Cap instruct police at Avengers 1 or asking Quicksilver assistance to secure people at Avengers 2. |
|
2016-05-12, 08:01 | Link #194 | ||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Last edited by Slayerx; 2016-05-12 at 08:55. |
||||||
2016-05-12, 13:14 | Link #196 | |
Senior Guest
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Athens (GMT+2)
Age: 35
|
Quote:
|
|
2016-05-12, 13:32 | Link #197 |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
|
All the chasing of Bucky by the UN ignored one important thing; that the UN entirely ignored the man who actually bombed the UN building.
But that's basically what's the reality with politics. What isn't important is getting the culprit, but to actually have someone to take the blame. Bucky LOOKS the part, so the fact that he didn't actually bomb the UN didn't matter. In the end Zemo could actually have killed himself with no one higher up actually caring he was the one who did it. If he DID die instead of being stopped by Black Panther, then it is very possible the UN will just keep blaming Bucky for the bombing. In the end Black Panther didn't just save Bucky by sheltering him. He also saved Bucky by bringing Zemo in alive so the UN is FORCED to clear Bucky's name. Because the UN really, really didn't want to catch the UN bomber at all. Zemo is just far less sexy a target as the Winter Soldier.
__________________
|
2016-05-12, 14:14 | Link #198 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
And no he doesn't have the potential to kill millions. Why? Because using his free will he chose to put himself on ice, under heavy guard until they could erase his brainwashing. He is no threat to anyone now, and when the wakanan's are done with him, he will become one of the world's greatest heroic assets. Not to mention that this all besides the point... The originally point was about Stark wanting to kill Bucky, and stark wasn't using any such rationale. He didn't care about all of the crimes the winter soldier committed; the one and ONLY rationale Stark was using to kill bucky was "he killed my mom"... a purely vengeful reasoning that IGNORES the fact that Bucky had no choice in the matter and could not have stopped himself. Stark wanted to kill a mere puppet, when the puppeteer is the one solely responsible for the puppet's actions Quote:
__________________
|
||
2016-05-12, 14:32 | Link #199 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
|
Quote:
A miscarriage of justice is not just one wrong, but two; You frame an innocent man, AND let the real criminal get away. You can't kill Bucky without ending up closing the case, thus letting Zemo go free, It is simply not possible to indict Zemo if Bucky dies.
__________________
|
|
2016-05-12, 14:52 | Link #200 | |||
Senior Guest
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Athens (GMT+2)
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
Tags |
marvel cinematic universe |
|
|