Archived Index LN Future Volume Speculation/Theories

[Ilidsor]

There's two problems with that:

1. Why would they assume that her clothing isn't magical? In a series where almost anything can be used for magic wouldn't the first thing you assume upon seeing someone wearing something as ridiculous as that be that it's magical?

and

2. That effect would be completely shattered by the cape, witch's hat, eyepatch, and necklace-thingy she's wearing.

[desrtsku]

That's kind of ironic. Why would you assume things like "she should just wear normal clothes" if you can also assume that "people would think it's a magical clothing anyway"? Well, just me nitpicking, don't mind it.

Regardless, you are indeed a pretty down to earth person, so how about this?

Originally Posted by powerful=naked

You're making a huge jump here, and so will I.

We have only two cases of "defensive magical clothing" in this series as far as I know :
-barrier types like walking church (or walking church type) : you can already see that has the appearance of clerical clothings. According to Index hers is a "church in the form of clothes" and includes the "bare minimum of components required to make up a church". It's left up to your imagination whether a bikini level clothing can possibly include those components (or even any weaker variant of that thing, assuming they work under the same principle).
-damage absorbing types like the one Itsuwa used in vol 16 : follows the principle of "the more damage you take the more naked you become". The fact that Othinus is already half naked completely defeats the purpose. Well she at least does have the cape, somehow, but the fact that she's half naked inside is already enough of a provocation.

You can literally count everything she has on her with a single hand. Can you count the exact number of accessories Lidvia, Stiyl or Biagio have on them? You can reach dozens or even hundreds if you count what's under their sleeves.
Well~well, I take it I was in the wrong myself for saying "zero" while the real basis is “truly strong people do not need excessive equipment”, but the idea is still there.

[Ilidsor]

First of all why are you putting everything in quotes from powerful=naked?

Originally Posted by desrtsku

That's kind of ironic. Why would you assume things like "she should just wear normal clothes" if you can also assume that "people would think it's a magical clothing anyway"? Well, just me nitpicking, don't mind it.

Because if wearing either of them would have the same result then obviously it would be preferable to wear normal clothing.

We have only two cases of "defensive magical clothing" in this series as far as I know :
-barrier types like walking church (or walking church type) : you can already see that has the appearance of clerical clothings. According to Index hers is a "church in the form of clothes" and includes the "bare minimum of components required to make up a church". It's left up to your imagination whether a bikini level clothing can possibly include those components (or even any weaker variant of that thing, assuming they work under the same principle).
-damage absorbing types like the one Itsuwa used in vol 16 : follows the principle of "the more damage you take the more naked you become". The fact that Othinus is already half naked completely defeats the purpose. Well she at least does have the cape, somehow, but the fact that she's half naked inside is already enough of a provocation.

You're forgetting that this is a series where almost anything can be done with magic by finding a legend related to it. Just because we've only seen those two kinds does not mean there aren't others. It would be weird to assume they were the only two kinds considering how many legends there are irl, and how we see a new kind of magic almost every book.

You can literally count everything she has on her with a single hand. Can you count the exact number of accessories Lidvia, Stiyl or Biagio have on them? You can reach dozens or even hundreds if you count what's under their sleeves.
Well~well, I take it I was in the wrong myself for saying "zero" while the real basis is “truly strong people do not need excessive equipment”, but the idea is still there.

Then she could do the same thing by wearing sleeve-less clothing, or just form fitting clothing. (Something on the Shutaura level of sexy wouldn't be bad).

And all of this is ignoring the fact that if she really was wearing so little clothing entirely to provoke her enemies then there would be no need for it to be so sexualized. Like only covering a tiny portion of her breasts, and the minimal coverage "down there".

[Birdway]

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

And all of this is ignoring the fact that if she really was wearing so little clothing entirely to provoke her enemies then there would be no need for it to be so sexualized. Like only covering a tiny portion of her breasts, and the minimal coverage "down there".

Basically that. Fiamma (and GRS by extension) wear a simple robe that we can't guess if he has a magical protection on it, and we know isn't because Holy Right.

Btw, is obvious they did it to appeal by visual means maybe to compensate what the character lacks.

[classic]

Probably a stupid question, but what exactly espers are using for their abilities. For example, what is a certain esper use to create fire? IEM Field? How does it work?

[omega253]

Originally Posted by classic

Probably a stupid question, but what exactly espers are using for their abilities. For example, what is a certain esper use to create fire? IEM Field? How does it work?

That type of question would be better in the Q&A Thread. That's its purpose after all.

Just giving a heads up.

[Ilidsor]

I answered in the QA thread

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by Birdway

Btw, is obvious they did it to appeal by visual means maybe to compensate what the character lacks.

No matter what the reason is, you don't and you can't compensate shallow characters with just looks. The best you can do with that is transforming them into pure jerking off materials, which is even worse.

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

First of all why are you putting everything in quotes from powerful=naked?

No particular reason ...

Originally Posted by naked=powerful

If you insist, when we're at it, it's been stated numerous times that the very basics of magicians is that they are usually talentless/weak and generally make up for that with sheer number of accessories. Whatever kind of magic clothing protection spell she would use, it would be penalized in sheer power from how little she wears.
That unless, of course, she possesses some super high level spell like Bersi to make up for that. However, that already implies she's a super high level magician to begin with, which is the very point of the thing.

Same as above, "the little she wears = the less powerful and numerous her accessory based spells are"
=> "she must be some super high level magician to make up for that".

PS :
-Also her clothes are already sleeveless mind you, hers just covers even less, and that's the point.
-bodysuit doesn't equate less tissue/body coverage, which means Itsuwa style spells would be very practical with it.
-It might be lewd pervybait, but that doesn't mean the reasoning is necessarily wrong.

[Ilidsor]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

No matter what the reason is, you don't and you can't compensate shallow characters with just looks. The best you can do with that is transforming them into pure jerking off materials, which is even worse.

Wait, so you admit it's a bad decision?

No particular reason ...

All you're doing is making it more annoying to reply to you, because the quoted stuff doesn't show up when I hit quote and I have to copy and paste it from below.

If you insist, when we're at it, it's been stated numerous times that the very basics of magicians is that they are usually talentless/weak and generally make up for that with sheer number of accessories. Whatever kind of magic clothing protection spell she would use, it would be penalized in sheer power from how little she wears.

Only if you insist that more clothing = more protection all the time, which is a silly assumption to make when almost anything can be done with magic. How hard do you think it would be to look up a legend or a myth or a fairy tale where someone gets protection when not wearing clothes, or after taking off clothes?

Same as above, "the little she wears = the less powerful and numerous her accessory based spells are"
=> "she must be some super high level magician to make up for that".

Yes but as we've discussed there are many ways of getting that across without making her look like a stripper who recently had half her clothing torn off.

PS :
-Also her clothes are already sleeveless mind you, hers just covers even less, and that's the point.

Well it's not a very good point. Is someone really going to think she's hiding something up her shirt? Or anywhere else that would be covered by normal clothing and be impractical to reach to during a fight?

-bodysuit doesn't equate less tissue/body coverage, which means Itsuwa style spells would be very practical with it.

Yes but as we've already covered literally any clothing can be assumed to give magical protection, so there's no point in wearing that ridiculous (seriously how can you look at that clothing and defend it?) outfit when other clothing would serve the same purpose.

-It might be lewd pervybait, but that doesn't mean the reasoning is necessarily wrong.

Yes it does. The second you're designing your villain (especially a villain whose supposed to be particularly threatening) to appeal to perverts something has gone terribly terribly wrong.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

No matter what the reason is, you don't and you can't compensate shallow characters with just looks. The best you can do with that is transforming them into pure jerking off materials, which is even worse.

I'm so confused as to why Othinus is a shallow character.

Her motivations haven't even been revealed yet. Why are you making any claims at all about her being shallow. Perhaps, she has more complicated motivations than any other character we've seen so far? (probably not than Aleister though...)

You're making a brash assumption that she's shallow. The only thing I've been able to tell so far is that her personality seems to be a lot more complex than it initially was, and furthermore that her appearance is just supposed to demonstrate how powerful and especially arrogant she is. It was already mentioned beforehand that she looks the way that she does just because she doesn't need to wear clothes. Just because she's a girl, and she's the first super-powerful girl character we've had in this series (on tier with our other big bads) you say that she looks like good "jerk-off material" but in reality she's just another boss character.

Her outfit is revealing, does that make it bad? If her personality is interesting, who the heck cares? Her wearing skimpy clothes just means that she's unusual, and therefore more interesting... at least in the Index-verse... so I'm excited rather than skeptical.

The illustrator is giving you information about how he designed her...

You can either A. disregard the information from the guy who created/designed the character and take your own opinion.

Or B. Take the information you're given and integrate into the story. Your choice.

I personally feel like it's a waste of time picking A, so I'm just going to trust Haimura on this one.

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Wait, so you admit it's a bad decision?

Originally Posted by dniv

I'm so confused as to why Othinus is a shallow character.

My excuses dniv, I didn't read your post for obvious reasons.

I never said Othinus was shallow (I don't think she's any deep either though), I just said the reasoning behind increasing the lewd factor in order to make up for something else is wrong. Which translates to "it doesn't matter as long as there's already something".
Or in other words : it's not something meant to be used as a substitute but as a bonus.

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

All you're doing is making it more annoying to reply to you, because the quoted stuff doesn't show up when I hit quote and I have to copy and paste it from below.

Then let me present my apologies. This time, then, I'll put it inside spoiler tags :

Spoiler for naked=powerful:

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Only if you insist that more clothing = more protection all the time, which is a silly assumption to make when almost anything can be done with magic.

Because of the quantity, I'm repeating myself.

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

How hard do you think it would be to look up a legend or a myth or a fairy tale where someone gets protection when not wearing clothes, or after taking off clothes?

Then just name one. And try to simulate a way to replicate it like they do in Toaru. Adding to that, try to imagine if it's the kind of spell a weak and untalented or a strong and talented person can pull off (yeah, because it also works that way despite the magic is for dummies thing). Also don't forget to imagine the kind of strength that spell should possess based on the series' principles.

And whatever your answer or findings may be, it's always much easier to remove a string rather than a bodysuit.

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Yes but as we've discussed there are many ways of getting that across without making her look like a stripper who recently had half her clothing torn off.

No, and I'm repeating myself, quantity matters for low level spells. The instant you think about increasing a little the amount of stuffs on her, you're also increasing the amount of sneaky things she may pull off or the strength of the spell related to said equipments.
The instant you think about a spell that ignores that factor, remember that those spell are high level ones only the super high tiers possess ... which means you're already playing into the naked=powerful trick.

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Well it's not a very good point. Is someone really going to think she's hiding something up her shirt? Or anywhere else that would be covered by normal clothing and be impractical to reach to during a fight?

Stiyl hides hundreds of cards under his clothes, he pulls them off using smaller rune spell. Birdway hid a tarot card for protection against sneak attacks under hers, and she doesn't even need to pull it off in the first place.
So yeah, it's not very difficult to imagine that.

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Yes but as we've already covered literally any clothing can be assumed to give magical protection, so there's no point in wearing that ridiculous (seriously how can you look at that clothing and defend it?) outfit when other clothing would serve the same purpose.

You read thing backward, her clothing isn't suited for it due to the low amount of tissue/covering/accessory on it.

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Yes it does. The second you're designing your villain (especially a villain whose supposed to be particularly threatening) to appeal to perverts something has gone terribly terribly wrong.

There's nothing bad with something threatening that appeals to perverts as long as he/she/it fulfils its purpose, or it might just be me.
Just take a look at the bible, you have very explicit sexual connotations in some of the books. The one in Revelation had a prostitute (supposed to be an allegory of the heretics and the who purchased Christians) displayed in very very lewd ways.

[Ilidsor]

Spoiler for Length:

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Then just name one. And try to simulate a way to replicate it like they do in Toaru. Adding to that, try to imagine if it's the kind of spell a weak and untalented or a strong and talented person can pull off (yeah, because it also works that way despite the magic is for dummies thing). Also don't forget to imagine the kind of strength that spell should possess based on the series' principles.

I'm cramming for exams atm (inbetween arguing about this) but I will eventually.

, and I'm repeating myself, quantity matters for low level spells. The instant you think about increasing a little the amount of stuffs on her, you're also increasing the amount of sneaky things she may pull off or the strength of the spell related to said equipments.
The instant you think about a spell that ignores that factor, remember that those spell are high level ones only the super high tiers possess ... which means you're already playing into the naked=powerful trick.

Where are you getting all of this from? There's plenty of weak/normal magicians in this series who only use one or two items. Look at Sherry who just uses a piece of chalk, Agnese who just has her staff.

Stiyl hides hundreds of cards under his clothes, he pulls them off using smaller rune spell. Birdway hid a tarot card for protection against sneak attacks under hers, and she doesn't even need to pull it off in the first place.
So yeah, it's not very difficult to imagine that.

Okay if we're saying they can pull items with magic then how does anybody know she isn't hiding items under her hat or that she doesn't have sewn-in pockets in her cape?

There's nothing bad with something threatening that appeals to perverts as long as he/she/it fulfils its purpose, or it might just be me.

Yes there is. She's a villain not a gravure (or however you spell that) model. I can't see her as the slightest bit threatening (which as I said before is her only strong suit atm) when she's wearing something like that.

Just take a look at the bible, you have very explicit sexual connotations in some of the books. The one in Revelation had a prostitute (supposed to be an allegory of the heretics and the who purchased Christians) displayed in very very lewd ways.

Are we supposed to be afraid of this prostitute? Are we supposed to see her as a goddess who crushes everything in her path and destroyed the entire world?

And let me ask you this: If being practically 99% naked is such a big provocation then why have none of the male characters ever done it? Why didn't Fiamma who has/had an ego the size of Russia run around in a speedo?

Her outfit is revealing, does that make it bad?

Yes.

If her personality is interesting, who the heck cares?

Her clothing ruins her personality by making her seem like a stripper rather than an all powerful god.

[R.LocK]

You're all silly.

[ACertainStark]

Originally Posted by R.LocK

You're all silly.

Everyone stopped coming lol

[R.LocK]

Originally Posted by ACertainStark

Everyone stopped coming lol

Hey, at least, it works

[ACertainStark]

Originally Posted by R.LocK

Hey, at least, it works

That's true.

[Kenju of the Right]

Her clothing ruins her personality by making her seem like a stripper rather than an all powerful god.

I'm pretty sure that's just you getting too caught up in the clothing

and last time I checked, gods dont give two craps about what mortals think

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

-snip-

Spoiler for naked=powerful:

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

I'm cramming for exams atm (inbetween arguing about this) but I will eventually.

Take your time. Well, I don't mind if you answer the whole thing next week even.

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Where are you getting all of this from? There's plenty of weak/normal magicians in this series who only use one or two items. Look at Sherry who just uses a piece of chalk, Agnese who just has her staff.

For starters, Sherry is the type that does a lot of prep, she makes up for her "weakness" with seals and other things ... also she isn't exactly "weak" either considering she can hold a few nights by herself.
Agnese? Yes, that's more of a weak magician. However her staff is really big, extravagant and actually has a pretty annoying ability even if it might look weak. Moreover, no, she has more than her staff, otherwise the little trick Lidvia did in vol 14 wouldn't have worked.

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Okay if we're saying they can pull items with magic then how does anybody know she isn't hiding items under her hat or that she doesn't have sewn-in pockets in her cape?

Because you can't put that many items under her hat. Furthermore, hats are things that fly easily unless you have some special skill in combat that prevents that.
Sewin-in pocket in her cape? Yes that works, I'll give you that point.

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Yes there is. She's a villain not a gravure (or however you spell that) model. I can't see her as the slightest bit threatening (which as I said before is her only strong suit atm) when she's wearing something like that.

Well that's just your opinion.
And I have mine. Her body is a walking corpse, her personality is just execrable and she's acted as a more competent villain that any other antagonist in the entire series. If anything, her lovely face and desirable body, accompanied with her lewd clothing act as a contrast that I find pretty interesting. It reminds me of my favorite villain of all time (Kefka) which is far from being "frightening" in appearance.

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Are we supposed to be afraid of this prostitute? Are we supposed to see her as a goddess who crushes everything in her path and destroyed the entire world?

No, she's supposed to be a form of evil that associate with other greater evils. She is a sinner supposed to be an enemy of those who avoid evil.
As I said, the prostitute is an allegory to some form "evil". And her punishment is an allegory to avoidance of the attitudes of said evil. However that punishment in a way which would please all bestiality, gore and vore fanatic.

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

And let me ask you this: If being practically 99% naked is such a big provocation then why have none of the male characters ever done it? Why didn't Fiamma who has/had an ego the size of Russia run around in a speedo?

For starters, that's assuming Fiamma is as monstrous as Othinus. He's a guy who needed heavy assistance and preps and had to rely on accessories and tricks much like other magician : needed a remote to control Pendex and an Angel, needed a war to power him up, needed a 40km size temple full of hundred thousand spiritual items to assist him, needed a special right hand to stabilize it ... and who without those said assistances isn't strong enough to beat and is overwhelmed by Kamijou.

Compare that to Othinus : yep she had restrictions too, yep she needed things too ... but by default she's still a monster who can potentially nuke the entire universe with or without help, and the only thing preventing her for doing so is that 50/50 thingy that would hurt her if she were to fail.


... that said, have you ever taken a close look at Kratos the Greek Gods and Heroes' clothing?

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Yes.

Fine, I respect your opinion and I say "no". If there are no on-going arguments, then we just have to agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by Ilidsor

Her clothing ruins her personality by making her seem like a stripper rather than an all powerful god.

I know no stripper who performs all badass and cruel throughout an entire arc, smashing top of the top tier characters in the series by herself, achieved the rank of God and destroyed everything.
Though, as I already mentioned, I know of a stupid looking clown with a ridiculously funny sounding main theme that would look like the worst villain ever. I did think that, until he : killed thousands of innocent people with his own hands, Betrayed everyone that allied with him, killed a likeable character, killed an entire race of being, destroyed the world and made it a living hell.

Well so, you take appearance as a decisive factor to make a villain? So much, that you're disregard their feats or personality for that? I don't mean any offence, but I have to say that I find such behavior pretty superficial, but you are free to think as you want.

[Bakaizer]

Can't gods have fashion statements of thier own?

[ACertainStark]

Originally Posted by nikohowell

Can't gods have fashion statements of thier own?

Or let the author & character designer design them how they want. Which they seem to be doing perfectly fine with Othinus!