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Old 2017-08-30, 03:05   Link #2141
Slayerx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
@Slayerx

What NAJ P. Jackson said. Doing whatever it takes to survive is not the same as receiving karma for her actions. In most respects, she went through unpunished, especially in reference to the books. You can say watching her father die and losing her brother is punishment, but that's through her own doing (and her siblings suffered just as much if not more).

And yes, Arya is reliable because she can read people as part of her superskills. Sansa still wants to take credit for winning the Battle of the Bastards, but that's a whole another different story that I don't want to get into right now.
My point about her trying to survive in kinggslanding was to point out how she had no intention of being joffry's queen; She regreted ever leaving winterfell and wanted nothing more than to go back home. Also Sansa had nothing to do with her father's death or her brother's. Ned died by his own actions; he was the one that warned cersei that he planned to tell Robert about her children, made it clear he would not accept joffry as king, and he was the one that trusted baelish in the fight for the throne. Sansa had nothing to do with any of that... the only role she had was writing a letter to Rob which she did under the belief that it would help protect both him and her father. Sansa has been nothing more than a victim of her naivety

And for Arya's ability to "read" people she gets a lot wrong. All of her suspicions about Sansa were miss placed; she thought she might betray Jon, but we know that Sansa had no intention of doing that. Ayra was able to tell that Baelish was shady but apparently did not catch that he was playing her with that message she "found". Arya's not really that good at reading people
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Old 2017-08-30, 03:27   Link #2142
thundrakkon
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It's been mentioned quite often, although maybe not here, that Sansa wanted to stay in King's Landing because she wanted to be queen, while Ned and Arya wanted to go back to Winterfell. That in itself caused the eventual downfall of Ned. And although she did not actively order the execution of her brother, she did participate with the writing of the letter.

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So you're saying that what was shown is wrong, and you're right. Okay....

Her suspicions were not misplaced. If you've watched a lot of the analysis, then you'll realize that the point that she finally took action on Littlefinger was only right before his execution. That's when through someone's idea, Bran, Arya, and Sansa met up to discuss and clear the air. Aryra got back the valerian knife, and Bran told the girls all of Littlefinger's deeds. However, before this, it was all Sansa being old Sansa (or is it young Sansa). She was being haughty and wanted to be one that "won" the battle of the bastards. She enjoyed being a "Lady" of Winterfell. No, she doesn't want to kill Jon Snow, but her desire to be in charge is there.

As for Arya, speaking of which, she gave Sansa her knife instead of using it. That in itself was trying to relay to Sansa not to worry, since she is not going to kill Sansa. Arya was a lot more in the know than she let on. I don't think once did Arya ever accuse Sansa of potentially betraying Jon. It's always been Sansa's speculation that Arya thinks that, not what Arya actually said. So in that regards, Sansa is once again wrong and reverting back to her old ways, until the final meet-up with Bran and Arya before the Littlefinger execution.
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Old 2017-08-30, 05:32   Link #2143
GDB
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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
There's another simple thing to consider; Cersei can always run. If worst comes to worst she can always gather up her things, hop on a boat and sail to Essos.
Assuming the Night King can't just freeze the water and cross the ocean, at least.
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Old 2017-08-30, 07:33   Link #2144
NAJ P. Jackson
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Assuming the Night King can't just freeze the water and cross the ocean, at least.
It's been shown the he can't freeze large bodies of water. He would have done so at Hardhome to go after Jon and the Wildings escaping by boats.
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Old 2017-08-30, 07:55   Link #2145
AntonKutovoi
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He has a huge undead flying dragon now, though. And if Team Living loses, he might have 3 of them.
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Old 2017-08-30, 09:08   Link #2146
Slayerx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
It's been mentioned quite often, although maybe not here, that Sansa wanted to stay in King's Landing because she wanted to be queen, while Ned and Arya wanted to go back to Winterfell. That in itself caused the eventual downfall of Ned. And although she did not actively order the execution of her brother, she did participate with the writing of the letter.
Sansa only wanted to stay in kingslanding to become queen because she had no idea what was really going on. Ned kept everything about Joffry being illegitimate and his plans to oppose Cersei away from his daughters. The only thing he told them was that they were to leave kingslanding and gave them no explanation why; Sansa was speaking out of complete ignorance to the true danger of the situation they were in. Furtharmore even though she argued against leaving, Ned would have none of it; he demanded that both she and arya leave for winterfell. The only problem is that Robert's death forced the confrontation between Ned and Cersei before the girls could leave (their belongings were packed and ready to go). Ned's death was all his own fault, and no one else's. Again, Sansa's dreams of being queen died that day.

Also Sansa's letter had nothing to do with Rob's death. When Rob got the letter he correctly assumed that Sansa was coerced into writing it and ignored it. Furthermore, Cersei did not want a war with the north; her plan was to make Ned take the Black so that he could convince the North to stand down. Sansa was trying to save both Ned and Rob in the only way she could. It would have worked too if not for Joffry's stupidity as he did not listen to his mother... Again, Arya's accusations of treason are complete bull.

Quote:
Her suspicions were not misplaced. If you've watched a lot of the analysis, then you'll realize that the point that she finally took action on Littlefinger was only right before his execution. That's when through someone's idea, Bran, Arya, and Sansa met up to discuss and clear the air. Aryra got back the valerian knife, and Bran told the girls all of Littlefinger's deeds. However, before this, it was all Sansa being old Sansa (or is it young Sansa). She was being haughty and wanted to be one that "won" the battle of the bastards. She enjoyed being a "Lady" of Winterfell. No, she doesn't want to kill Jon Snow, but her desire to be in charge is there.

As for Arya, speaking of which, she gave Sansa her knife instead of using it. That in itself was trying to relay to Sansa not to worry, since she is not going to kill Sansa. Arya was a lot more in the know than she let on. I don't think once did Arya ever accuse Sansa of potentially betraying Jon. It's always been Sansa's speculation that Arya thinks that, not what Arya actually said. So in that regards, Sansa is once again wrong and reverting back to her old ways, until the final meet-up with Bran and Arya before the Littlefinger execution.
Sansa was fine with letting Jon take the credit for winning the battle of the bastards; the ONLY time she tried to take the credit that she DESERVED is when Ayra forced the issue by showing Sansa absolutely no respect for all the work she did to take back winterfell, and instead did the opposite by making false accusations about Sansa's intentions. If Arya hadn't been so agressive to Sansa, Sansa would have never said anything about the battle.

And i did NOT see any joy in sansa when she was acting as the lady of winterfell; it seemed like she experiencing nothing but stress and frustration as she worked to hold everything together. Heck Jon leaving was her fast track to being in charge but she tried everything she could to convince Jon to stay. With Jon gone Sansa was the only one able to hold things together and that's what she did... If Sansa really wanted to be in charge so badly, then why not support Jon's decision to go to dragonstone instead of oppose it? Hell Even after they won the battle, Jon was insisting that Sansa take her place as the Lady of winterfell; if she wanted the job, she knows that Jon would have given it to her. But no, even when given the chance for Power, she deferred power to Jon instead.

And sure Sansa kept littlefinger around, but that's because he kept the Vale on their side. He was untrustworthy, but useful. The reason she turned on him is because it became clear to her that he was now becoming a threat to her family and THAT is where she draws the line.

Also if Ayra did not suspect Sansa was going to betray Jon, then why the hell did she give Sansa such a hard time and make vague threats to her? Why not be nice to her sister? With the letter she made it clear that she could undermine sansa's control of the north, and she even made it clear that she could kill and replace sansa. Heck she even pointed out that she was not only mad at sansa but was gonna let her anger determine her actions. That was NOT Sansa's imagination. Why would Arya have any reason to be passive aggressive to Sansa if she knew she had no intention of betraying Jon? Arya could have been nice, friendly and understanding with Sansa, but she was anything but. The threats were a pretty clear message; "I won't kill you now, but if you ever betray us, I WILL kill you"

All in all, i think you give Arya too much credit, and Sansa too little credit.
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Old 2017-08-30, 09:53   Link #2147
NAJ P. Jackson
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I'm a bit confuse as to what you guys are arguing at this point tbh.

I think it boils down to if Sansa was at fault for Ned and Robb's death. The answer is no. Her only fault was that she was naive and a bit foolish for trusting the Lannisters to keep their word. Cersei maybe many things but even she didn't want a war with the North. She was perfectly fine allowing Ned to take the black. Unfortunately for everyone else Littlefinger was whispering in Joffrey's ear. The real culprit in all of the things that happened in GoT is Littlefinger. He wanted Ned out of the way so he can be together with Cat but after her death the creeper turned his attention on Sansa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
And sure Sansa kept littlefinger around, but that's because he kept the Vale on their side. He was untrustworthy, but useful. The reason she turned on him is because it became clear to her that he was now becoming a threat to her family and THAT is where she draws the line.

Also if Ayra did not suspect Sansa was going to betray Jon, then why the hell did she give Sansa such a hard time and make vague threats to her? Why not be nice to her sister? With the letter she made it clear that she could undermine sansa's control of the north, and she even made it clear that she could kill and replace sansa. Heck she even pointed out that she was not only mad at sansa but was gonna let her anger determine her actions. That was NOT Sansa's imagination. Why would Arya have any reason to be passive aggressive to Sansa if she knew she had no intention of betraying Jon? Arya could have been nice, friendly and understanding with Sansa, but she was anything but. The threats were a pretty clear message; "I won't kill you now, but if you ever betray us, I WILL kill you"

All in all, i think you give Arya too much credit, and Sansa too little credit.
In some ways Arya still has a bitterness inside her for always coming short during her younger years. Everybody always praised Sansa for being a better lady than Arya. Sure Arya didn't want to be a lady in the first place but she didn't want to feel like she was second fiddle to her mother's eyes. And clearly Arya blames Sansa for a lot of the downfall of their House. It was Sansa after all who pleaded with her mother to convince Ned to become the Hand so she can go to King's Landing and marry Joffrey. Sansa also actively lied and got the boy Arya was playing with killed and almost had Nymeria killed as well if she didn't manage to escape. So yes there is a bit of grudge that needed airing between the two sisters that colored her perception of her sister once she found that letter. She had no trouble believing Sansa COULD betray their family again because Sansa did not have a good track record in past events to her eyes.


Anyway here's something interesting revealed in an interview of Bran's actor Isaac Hempstead Wright.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/game...ne-1202541941/

Here he stated that there was a scene that was cut from the final episode that would have cleared the confusing mess that is the Winterfell subplot.
Quote:
It’s clear after Sansa turns the tables on Littlefinger that she has had some sort of conversation with Bran, but we don’t get to see it. When did it take place?

We actually did a scene that clearly got cut, a short scene with Sansa where she knocks on Bran’s door and says, “I need your help,” or something along those lines. So basically, as far as I know, the story was that it suddenly occurred to Sansa that she had a huge CCTV department at her discretion and it might be a good idea to check with him first before she guts her own sister. So she goes to Bran, and Bran tells her everything she needs to know, and she’s like, “Oh, s—.”
This alludes that the conflict between sisters was real and not staged solely for Littlefinger's benefit like many others thought. And that Littlefinger came dangerously close to manipulating both sisters into physical harming each other.
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Old 2017-08-31, 11:49   Link #2148
SufGen
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You know nothing John Snow - the slogan of 7th season
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Old 2017-09-27, 10:04   Link #2149
MrTerrorist
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Game of Thrones stars Kit Harington and Rose Leslie to wed

Congrats to Kit and Rose. A far better fate than their characters.
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Old 2017-09-27, 10:17   Link #2150
NAJ P. Jackson
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Now watch as they get a divorce in a few years cause that's how most celebrity couples marriage end up.
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Old 2017-10-05, 13:13   Link #2151
MrTerrorist
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Such a Debby Downer aren't you?

Anyway, if Game of Thrones had an anime opening?

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Old 2018-01-05, 21:35   Link #2152
saya_leviathan
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The final season of Game of Thrones will be out on 2019.

Oh well, more time for GRRM to release The Winds of Winter.
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Old 2018-04-20, 04:35   Link #2153
MrTerrorist
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Omaze contest to meet the cast of GOT.

YouTube
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Old 2018-07-12, 04:37   Link #2154
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Talking

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Old 2018-07-12, 06:14   Link #2155
NAJ P. Jackson
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Omaze contest to meet the cast of GOT.

Spoiler:
Thanks to that video fans manage to photoshop this

Targaryen Royal Wedding
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Old 2018-11-13, 21:34   Link #2156
saya_leviathan
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The last season will be out on April 2019.
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The show's YT channel uploads some important scenes from the past 7 seasons (e.g. The Red Wedding, Tyrion killing his dad and "Hold the Door) probably as a reminder of what happened before.
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