Magic and Technology of MGLN

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Hi, Keroko, my computer and I greet you.

My laptop and I return your greetings:


Do note the red lined spots, which are the framecounts. Count them, and you will end up with 34 frames.

I could go on a long rant and disect your points one by one, we could argue which of us has the 'true' source, but this really proves what I told you months ago: You can't stadia range animation.

[arkhangelsk]

They are not spots or lines, they are circles.

I don't know, pal, but this is supposed to be 30fps (29.97 if you are picky) NTSC output, so at ~18 minutes from start, the total frame count should be a lot closer to >32000 (30 frames * 60 seconds = 1800FPM * 18 minutes = 32400 frames) than ~26000 (~14.5mins, or ~18 minutes at 24fps). I don't have an objection to it being 34 frames at a 24fps rate

It is certainly true that Sette was consistently bigger (and thus closer) than Tre.

By the way, we both chose the same last picture, but if you really stare hard enough, you can just see a wisp of Tre, but not Sette... just proving what I said

[Avatar_notADV]

Unfortunately, you don't actually know what frame rate the video is, because nowadays certain video encoding techniques utilize variable frame rates. If you've got reason to suspect that the frame rate is variable, you -certainly- can't use stadia ranging in order to estimate speeds!

[Mirificus]

Originally Posted by Avatar_notADV

Unfortunately, you don't actually know what frame rate the video is, because nowadays certain video encoding techniques utilize variable frame rates. If you've got reason to suspect that the frame rate is variable, you -certainly- can't use stadia ranging in order to estimate speeds!

No comments on my response to you?

[Avatar_notADV]

Not really. We don't disagree. Of course, we shouldn't assume that every military everything changes just because we're dealing with magical girls, any more than we should assume that nothing changes.

But at the same time, you quickly reach a point of diminishing returns, analyzing StrikerS from the perspective of a modern military. They are Doing It Wrong, end of story. All the ways that they are Doing It Wrong have been documented extensively already. In the context of the show, however, they are skilled people who are not doing it wrong; the only conclusion after that is that the writers don't know the difference, and there's not much point in pushing past that. If the writers didn't care enough to learn about these concepts, then the show isn't going to have characters that worry about them, full stop.

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by Avatar_notADV

Unfortunately, you don't actually know what frame rate the video is, because nowadays certain video encoding techniques utilize variable frame rates. If you've got reason to suspect that the frame rate is variable, you -certainly- can't use stadia ranging in order to estimate speeds!

The properties of the show does say:
Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 896x504 29.97fps [Video]

There is no evidence of the frame rate actually being variable.

If they are variable frame rate, then the frames have individual timecodes so the player can actually play them right. Find the timecode and we can still SR.

Aegisub's timecode, for the record, says 1.418 seconds b/w first and last - that's roughly 42 frames at 30fps or 34 frames at 24fps. So, use timecode. Use 30fps or 24fps, result's the same...

[Avatar_notADV]

Let me put it this way - it was not -broadcast- at 24 fps. Therefore, if it's showing at 24 fps, there's no guarantee that the encoded frame rate is equal to the broadcast frame rate. It's probably not far off, to be sure, or you'd have weird audio issues, but even a few percent would give you a messed-up ranging, especially because your measurement total is so small in the first place. ;p

[arkhangelsk]

Errors in the time dimension messes up your velocity estimate, not your range.

If the error is really only a few percent, I'm ecstatic. With so few pixels being used, the potential ranging error so exceeds this timing problem that even a 10% error will be completely lost in noise.

[Jimmy C]

Avatar, they're working from the DVD rips, not the broadcast versions.

[Avatar_notADV]

Same diff. NTSC DVD stuff is 30 fps (29.97, right right). If your video file isn't at 30, you don't know how the frames you're looking at were converted from 30 frames.

That's not ordinarily a problem - a good variable frame rate encoding won't drop any frames with motion in them! - but if you're trying to judge things by the length of intermittent frames...

Ark's right in that the difference isn't going to be huge and that you can make some conclusions. On the other hand, with a short number of frames, you always have to deal with considerations of exactly how much attention the animators paid to staying consistent in that scene...

[Kikaifan]

So back when Barrier Jacket flimsiness was all the rage, did anyone bring up the episode 4 training where a buffed Erio hits Nanoha with rocket-Strada, is explicitly stated to have broken through her barrier and hit the jacket, but still only leaves a tiny smudge on it?

[Wild Goose]

...totally forgot about that.

[Kikaifan]

Yeah I just started screencapping a few StrikerS episodes for unrelated purposes and saw it again. Go go total inconsistency.

[Kha]

Just think of it as Damage Mitigation and heck care how that works...? Nanohaverse does subscribe to game mechanics very well though.

[Keroko]

I've been saying it all along, really, the only reason Barrier Jackets were 'vulnerable' to the Wolkies weapons is because the Wolkies simply overpowered the defences of the Jacket (after all, these are the same attacks that slice through steel like a knife through butter, yet cause only scratches on the mages). This one scene does much to support that claim, thank you Ki.

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by Kikaifan

So back when Barrier Jacket flimsiness was all the rage, did anyone bring up the episode 4 training where a buffed Erio hits Nanoha with rocket-Strada, is explicitly stated to have broken through her barrier and hit the jacket, but still only leaves a tiny smudge on it?

Yes, and how much energy remained after it penetrated the barrier? For all we can tell, it tapped the jacket.

[Keroko]

So? It does show that Barrier Jackets are capable of blocking direct hits of piercing attacks no less, as Nanoha was definetly not using Protection at that time.

[arkhangelsk]

Sorry. It shows that even with an active defense blasting away most of an opponent's momentum, it can still actually get damaged by the spear.

By the way, it is just more proof that active defenses can be erected without necessary being blatantly obvious with huge magical circles, or incantations, or devices talking

I'll deal with your PM in a bit.

[Keroko]

Or it could mean that the defences can be used with the Barrier generated by the Jacket, as we saw absolutely no visible Barrier present.

Though I do wonder what the booklet has to say about this:



(or is this the booklet that you translated?)

As for the PM, I found one more piece to debunk your 'stadias determine all' ground. Remember Nanoha's shot in 07? Remember how you said that according to stadia that shot was only 16 m/s? The booklet data clearly states that Divine Buster Extension has 'shocking speed' now, we've seen magic in Nanoha that move a lot faster, and yet DBE is noted to have shocking speed? This makes no sense if we listen to stadias, yet if we follow animation techniques, and simply say that the shot was slowed for dramatic effect, then lot of things start to make sense.

For one, the speed was indeed 'shocking', bridging the distance between Nanoha and Vita in a flash.

Secondly, it also explains why Vita, a battle hardened veteran, didn't just sidestep the attack, she never had the chance to do so.

See? Things that simply look moronic following stadia suddenly make perfect sense.

[Comartemis]

The booklet data clearly states that Divine Buster Extension has 'shocking speed' now, we've seen magic in Nanoha that move a lot faster, and yet DBE is noted to have shocking speed? This makes no sense if we listen to stadias, yet if we follow animation techniques, and simply say that the shot was slowed for dramatic effect, then lot of things start to make sense.

Do I sense a connection to Fate's Sonic Drive, which (If you go by the crappy animation for that particular scene) actually makes her slower than normal?