2009-09-27, 13:08 | Link #2121 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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It's the exact opposite where i live...
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2009-09-27, 14:10 | Link #2122 | ||
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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Of course, much of the difficulty in accepting all of that has more to do with the fact that we aren't able to directly observe such "building" take place before our very eyes. We can observe minor examples of evolution, and we can see evidence for evolution, but being unable to observe single-celled organisms making the step to becoming multi-cellular organisms, for example, makes it difficult to understand how or why those things occurred. The evidence that they occurred is all there and conclusive, of course; I suppose the big question is why it happened, what special factors were at play, and why it doesn't seem to happen more often and/or in more places around the universe. Quote:
"You will suffer in hell unless you believe in God, by God's will" - a statement that reveals the effort to convert others is one almost of sympathy - becomes "unless you believe in God, you deserve to suffer in hell (because you are inferior/an infidel/something undesirable" which is a judgment call. People identify with their religion and it becomes a source of pride: you are special and unique (perhaps better) because you are a member of this religion. They take some of the teachings without balancing them by a fuller understanding, resulting in a tribe-like mentality. When confronted by other religions and strong beliefs, conflict is likely to arise not because the religion demands it, but because the followers feel threatened and/or not properly recognized and respected for what they're identifying with.
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2009-09-27, 14:42 | Link #2123 | ||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2009-09-27, 16:16 | Link #2124 | |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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At its core, understanding God's motives and God's justice is an interesting concept. We all have an idea of what justice is, but can we expect to understand God's motives and God's version of justice? Think about a time when you felt judgmental about something and, upon learning some new information, changed stances on it. I think that everyone either has encountered or will encounter such a scenario in their life, and likely much more than just once. We are very limited in our knowledge of what's going on unless it is directly around us. God is supposedly omnipotent, and this is where the idea that everything happens for a reason comes from - that we may only see a small bit of something that's going on, but that God (who is able to see everything) has things happen for a specific reason. Such thinking basically states that life is like a giant Rube Goldberg machine, and we're all just tiny parts that may pass the ball along, unaware of what the end result is. Thus, if it sounds unfair or unjust to you that people should get sent to Hell for not believing in God, then it could be that you're not understanding the reason why it should happen and/or God's justice. (I don't find the idea very just, myself, and it's one of the major beliefs of Christianity that rubs me the wrong way.)
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2009-09-27, 16:31 | Link #2125 | |
思想工作
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 31
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I believe in God of some sort, but I don't think "he" is what we would call perfect. I think that God encompasses the entire universe and it's laws, and to follow the laws of the universe is therefore also following God's laws. Since there is suffering still, I don't think anybody can say God is perfect, given that "perfect" means that suffering and death don't exist. With regard to idea that "not believing in God=going to Hell," I think that is a major oversimplification on the part of the religions and the people who control them. I think that it means that people who don't follow universal laws (from jumping off a cliff thinking you can fly, to killing others) have a harder time in life and bring more suffering upon themselves. The people who invented the "no God=Hell" statement were most likely trying to make people afraid by using the name of God to control them.
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2009-09-27, 16:33 | Link #2126 | ||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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That only serves to reinforce the command to love your neigbor. Love others because God first loved and spread the good news so that others, no more or less deserving to go to Hell, may also be saved from it. |
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2009-09-27, 16:35 | Link #2127 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I'm not trying to argue the fairness of God - that'd be giving Him, and our knowledge of Him and His ways, too much credit, from my atheist point of view.
If you'll recall, this particular line of discussion started with wondering whether it was Christian to hate the unbelievers. It is my contention that it could be - since to be Christian is to believe it's just that unbelievers get sent to Hell. Not only that, they're supposed to celebrate the fact. Quote:
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2009-09-27, 17:06 | Link #2129 | ||
Member of DOLLARS
Artist
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the magical land of Moonswell pass
Age: 28
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2009-09-27, 17:15 | Link #2130 |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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Hm... I never got that.
Because he could, God created a species that, supposedly, is superior to his other creations. Because he loves that species, he gave it a free will, and as a result, it can never meet his standards. Because of that, the species now deserves to go to Hell. But since he still loves the species, God will safe a few - but only those who can believe in something for which there is absolutely no evidence, and those who are "lucky" enough to die before they can reach a certain age and/or get the oppurtunity to ponder the existence of God. Hum. I think if such a God exists, the devil can't be all that worse. And I'm not even going into such interesting philosophical questions as whether humans really possess more of a "free will" than other species.
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2009-09-27, 18:10 | Link #2131 |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Ok, this thread has now received two warnings about behavior. Here's the third. There will be no more warnings - anyone who cannot act in a civil manner when posting in this topic will be dealt with accordingly.
If you can't handle it, don't post in this thread. Thread reopened.
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2009-09-28, 08:42 | Link #2132 | ||||
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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You have a good point. But this can be viewed in the way of *not* as a requirement for those in doubt but an *extra* discipline for those who, with enough confidence, want to lead a more *disciplined* life. I believe *discipline* creates better societies and, thus, adding greater "good points" for those doing them. For example, the drinking of alcohol and the, no offense, "slutty" clothing. This may seem too conservative to you but I believe it would to help develop a more *ordered* society. From what I've understood from my own religion, our *deeds* are translated into "good points" and "bad points" that would determine our fate. Quote:
Please blame the people, not the religions.They're not babies anymore that they would need to be *SO* dependent on sets of beliefs. Quote:
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2009-09-28, 08:47 | Link #2133 | |
eyewitness
Join Date: Jan 2007
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2009-09-28, 09:06 | Link #2135 | |
Emotionless White Face
Join Date: Feb 2008
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I tend to believe that if there was no rules and laws, most humans would do a lot of wrong things without even thinking about what they're doing, or by pure evilness. So I tend to believe that originally, to make believe that God will punish those who did bad things was to scare them and so prevent humans to do bad things For example, I think most of the Commandments are good advice/rules. So I think it helped humans to stay on the good way. Anyway, on another topic, I know some people who believe that there is a god, but reject the idea of a religious society/group. Because they believe that a lot of things those religious say is not from God, but from people who use the name of God (or twist what god said) to make people do many things (good things, but sometimes bad thing, or just to control them the way they want). So, for example, they see the Pope as a mere human. Last edited by Narona; 2009-09-28 at 09:21. |
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2009-09-28, 09:26 | Link #2136 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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2009-09-28, 09:32 | Link #2137 | |
Emotionless White Face
Join Date: Feb 2008
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But humans have no predator that could match them, which make them powerful so their sol predator is themselves. Given that, I believe that humans created rules and a good moral to "actually" try to perpetuate the species, because I tend to believe that if it was not the case, humans will destruct themselves by fighting against each other. As said Plaute, Homo Homini Lupus... Now god could have been created to scare humans, and so to maintain an order, and no humans was able to verify if god truly exists, so by default they were scared by it. |
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2009-09-28, 10:15 | Link #2138 | ||
Emotionless White Face
Join Date: Feb 2008
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I just wonder some things, like the massacres and wars due to religion. For example, what I often wonder is "Was it because of god (whether he exists or not), or because some evil people used the name of God to control people?". If God exists, are we not the only ones who decided how he is, and what he does? Maybe there is a God, but completely different from the image that humans have about him beside that he created us?" That the kind of questions I wonder. And I apologize again if I offended you Quote:
About "love" that goes beyond the instinctive thought of perpetuating the species, for example, the "love" between two persons is something that seems to exist in some animals like the Macaws that are monogamous, and in love with their partner. So I don't really know, Humans seem to be a mix of a lot of forms of love. There are humans who seek love as macaws (XD) but some other who, like some other animals, just don't have that link between each other (having sex / reproducing, and that's all) etc etc. Now I tend to think humans are a bit different than most animals. They question themselves a lot, and modify the rules and laws of their society. Maybe because they are smarter than other animals? Or maybe something else? I don't know. What i know, is that they seem way more dangerous than any other animals because of their capabilities. (sorry if it offend some people >.<) For example, while other animals seem to respect some kind of rules that they never question, humans question everything. Last edited by Narona; 2009-09-28 at 10:37. |
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2009-09-28, 10:45 | Link #2139 | |||
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Your views of God seem rational, though I'd rather you look at God only and not the resulting society. There are, of course, theist-successful societies as well. We just don't know the ratios in it. I, on the other hand, believe that religions do more *positive* than negative. It has, as you've stated, created "proper" morality( or did you say that?, sorry, I forgot.) Quote:
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not a debate, philosophy, religion |
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