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Old 2008-09-21, 17:52   Link #10481
Kusaja
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Originally Posted by Charred Knight View Post
The problem is that Taniguchi takes the contrast too far. He makes characters suffer, than all of a sudden at the last second pulls it back, and creates an ending that is way too happy. The result is that the ending doesn't fit with the rest of the series.
I'd say, in R2 at least, the potential or actual problem has more to do with the lack of sufficient build-up and pacing issues. In his other shows, I think he did just fine with this same method.

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Zeta Gundam was a dark depressing series about how horrible war is and the effect that it has on people. The ending while dark is also fitting, and one of the finest I have ever seen.
It's fitting, but that ending also left me feeling rather empty...so I have conflicting feelings about it.

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On the other hand Code Geass R2 is similar to the My little ponies movie made in the early 80's and the 2nd Care Bear movies made around the same time (I WAS 5 WHEN I SAW THESE).
Oh c'mon...really? I'd have to see the movie in question to see who fair or unfair you're being here.

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When G Gundam has a darker ending than you have problems
I'd have to see G Gundam first to make that comparison, but even then...

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In other words why I am I watching this? What do I get out of it? Right now I watch it because I am bored, and it takes up a good few hours. That's not something Bandai is going to put on the back of the DVD case.
That's an understandable position, though I'm not exactly in that same boat.

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Also if I am getting on people nerves, I am not trying to do that. I simply want to talk about anime, and the fact that I am depressed by the fact that Taniguchi seems to be shrinking from ambition seems to be annoying people.
He seems to think too little of himself, going by the infamous interview, which is a little depressing, but still...nobody can force him to have higher ambitions, and those aren't always necessary in any case.
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Old 2008-09-21, 18:00   Link #10482
Orga777
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So, Schneizel being evil was... thrown out the window right? Yes? Yeah, that is what I thought. His whole objective seemed to be to die for world peace. He put his mask on perfectly. XD It is a shame he got Geassed though... Ah well, if he lives through this mayhem, I will be happy. He cares more than he let on. Spared Cornelia, don't know where the fuck Guilford came from though. XD

And it seems "everyone dies" may have been overstated. More like everyone lives. XD
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Old 2008-09-21, 18:01   Link #10483
killbethy
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Although Cornelia rising to some leadership position would be out of the blue... I don't think it would be half bad. She already recognized the faults of her father and, when talking to the miraculously alive Guilford in 24, sees the faults in Schneizel's thinking. She's also been there to see the same things as Lelouch has.. people rising up against unhappiness, etc. to try and create a better tomorrow. Granted for the first season, she was painted as the "bad guy" for a lot of this, but the fact that she was ready to abdicate her position for the throne to clear Euphy's name marked a change in her. We also don't know what happened while she was "captured" by Lelouch. Despite her character development being very subtle, all in all, she is a very different Cornelia than the one we were introduced to in the beginning of first season. Her return SHOULD serve some purpose... I doubt it will be the next ruler of Britannia, but even if it is, she seems to be a bit more fit for the role now. Hopefully there will be some purpose to her return... I just wonder what it is...

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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
So, Schneizel being evil was... thrown out the window right? Yes? Yeah, that is what I thought. His whole objective seemed to be to die for world peace. He put his mask on perfectly. XD It is a shame he got Geassed though... Ah well, if he lives through this mayhem, I will be happy. He cares more than he let on. Spared Cornelia, don't know where the fuck Guilford came from though. XD

And it seems "everyone dies" may have been overstated. More like everyone lives. XD
Schneizel got Geass-ed because he lost... his mask clearly wasn't on perfectly, or Lelouch wouldn't have been able to see through him. The only reason Lelouch got to him was because Schneizel only engages in battles that he can't lose, and in this case, his feeling of superiority in not being able to lose was his downfall. I also don't think his objective was to die for world peace... it was to make Lelouch the common enemy and kill him for temporary world peace. If he really wanted to die for this "world peace", he wouldn't have tried to flee the Damocles and leave Nunnally there as bait. What he was spewing at the end in his conversation with pre-recorded Lelouch was nothing but nonsense in an attempt to still make him seem like the good guy. Even Kanon was fooled into believing that Schneizel didn't have an attachment to his own life, but those were nothing but words... notice how shocked Kanon seemed on the elevator when Schneizel said he was going to abandon Nunnally. Kanon was just a victim of Schneizel's pretty worded facade much like everyone else.

I also don't think he "spared" Cornelia. Shooting someone in the back isn't exactly what you call "sparing" someone. You don't expect them to survive that, and the fact she did is pretty miraculous. Maybe he didn't give her the final blow when he found out she was still alive, but he still shot her in the back which is pretty symbolic of betrayal... to even the closest member of his family.

I think Schneizel is a great character in CG. I wish they had taken the time to develop him more (back to my theory that they should have had 2 1/2 seasons... the first the Japanese front, the second the international front, the third of 13 episodes with Lelouch as emperor and Schneizel siding with the UK). But in the end, he was flawed, just like everyone else in the series.
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Old 2008-09-21, 18:02   Link #10484
leechbox
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25. Cornelia becomes the 100th Emperor of the Holy Empire of Britannia. Kaguya becomes Prime Minister of the newly independent Japan. The two countries work together in reshaping the world and fulfilling the desires of their peoples. Because Lelouch and Suzaku both could not protect the people they wished to protect, they decide to start their lives over.
Wow, lame excuse, but they will disappear?
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Old 2008-09-21, 18:04   Link #10485
Charred Knight
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Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker View Post
Still quite below the belt Charred, I think you're hyperventilating a little here while over exaggerating by a lot, I don't think anything warrants being compared to that of all things
In terms of writing Code Geass is much better, Code Geass only two real major flaw is that they use Lelouch's geass like a clutch, and that they have an episode that looks like its from a different series (episode 24)

They didn't even set up Schneizel being geassed, he just was. It kind of makes Schneizel look like an idiot to be defeated so easily.

I could see where Taniguchi was going, but the problem is that he made it too dark to pull off a happy ending without making it look like he did it to appease the fanbase.
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Old 2008-09-21, 18:05   Link #10486
KrimzonStriker
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
So, Schneizel being evil was... thrown out the window right? Yes? Yeah, that is what I thought. His whole objective seemed to be to die for world peace. He put his mask on perfectly. XD It is a shame he got Geassed though... Ah well, if he lives through this mayhem, I will be happy. He cares more than he let on. Spared Cornelia, don't know where the fuck Guilford came from though. XD

And it seems "everyone dies" may have been overstated. More like everyone lives. XD
Nah, its just that in the end his results were too... disillusioned with the world, he lacked faith in people's own will to drive for such a goal. I think Lelouch respected him for that, but at the same time made a very solid point that he was too limited in his vision, whereas Charles thought of the past or Schneizel who thought of today, Lelouch on the other hand will think of tomorrow, and that is where the future lies of course

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charred Knight View Post
In terms of writing Code Geass is much better, Code Geass only two real major flaw is that they use Lelouch's geass like a clutch, and that they have an episode that looks like its from a different series (episode 24)

They didn't even set up Schneizel being geassed, he just was. It kind of makes Schneizel look like an idiot to be defeated so easily.

I could see where Taniguchi was going, but the problem is that he made it too dark to pull off a happy ending without making it look like he did it to appease the fanbase.
I thought it was fine this time, I mean, 19 seconds of calculation and what not was pretty darn epic.

Meh, casualty of war, you don't get the glorious endings that you think you deserve, you just get what you do

Meh, we still have a lot of 'issues' to resolve, so I think it'll be fine personally, nobody isn't going to get away unscathed if that's what your saying. I think the ending will suit the series and its overall progression fine personally, I have faith it will
__________________
"That is why we must embrace carnage. In order to not waste the blood that has already been shed, we have no choice but to shed even more."- Lelouch Vi Britannia
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Old 2008-09-21, 18:09   Link #10487
Orga777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charred Knight View Post
In terms of writing Code Geass is much better, Code Geass only two real major flaw is that they use Lelouch's geass like a clutch, and that they have an episode that looks like its from a different series (episode 24)

They didn't even set up Schneizel being geassed, he just was. It kind of makes Schneizel look like an idiot to be defeated so easily.

I could see where Taniguchi was going, but the problem is that he made it too dark to pull off a happy ending without making it look like he did it to appease the fanbase.
You are wrong on the Schneizel part. You see, both Lelouch and Schneizel are the ONLY two people that truly understand each other. They both read each other like an open book when everyone else close to those two are all "Durrr... what now?" Not even Charles could understand those two and he was their father (granted he never made an attempt to...)

So Lelouch, being, well, Lelouch, did the same thing he did to Mao because he KNEW what Schneizel wanted and KNEW his thoughts just as well as Lelouch knew his. So BAM, a recording practically showing a convo between the two when infact he was right next to them all along. XD That is what happens when it is those two though. They just knew each other too well. So it was set up. We just didn't see it coming.
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Old 2008-09-21, 18:23   Link #10488
geewhiz
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Originally Posted by killbethy View Post
Maybe he didn't give her the final blow when he found out she was still alive, but he still shot her in the back which is pretty symbolic of betrayal... to even the closest member of his family.
Er...she pulled out her gun-sword on him!
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Old 2008-09-21, 18:27   Link #10489
Charred Knight
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Originally Posted by Orga777 View Post
You are wrong on the Schneizel part. You see, both Lelouch and Schneizel are the ONLY two people that truly understand each other. They both read each other like an open book when everyone else close to those two are all "Durrr... what now?" Not even Charles could understand those two and he was their father (granted he never made an attempt to...)

So Lelouch, being, well, Lelouch, did the same thing he did to Mao because he KNEW what Schneizel wanted and KNEW his thoughts just as well as Lelouch knew his. So BAM, a recording practically showing a convo between the two when infact he was right next to them all along. XD That is what happens when it is those two though. They just knew each other too well. So it was set up. We just didn't see it coming.
The problem is that instead of defeating Schneizel in an orginal way they just pulled off the same thing they did with Mao. I can forgive a guy for ripping someone off, I can forgive a guy from ripping himself off, but ripping off your first season. If that doesn't scream "I don't give a crap" I don't know what does.

Also Schneizel comes off like an idiot letting Lelouch sneak up behind him. Its Lelouch not Solid Snake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusaja View Post
I'd say, in R2 at least, the potential or actual problem has more to do with the lack of sufficient build-up and pacing issues. In his other shows, I think he did just fine with this same method.

He seems to think too little of himself, going by the infamous interview, which is a little depressing, but still...nobody can force him to have higher ambitions, and those aren't always necessary in any case.
I deleted the rest since I only want to talk about these two points

I have agreed countless times on pacing, it needed to have been longer, and it needed to have better focus.

Given the past episode, I simply misinterpeted the interview thinking he was some great artist striving against the idiots at Bandai and Sunrise, instead of a simple director who just wanted to tell a story.
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Old 2008-09-21, 18:28   Link #10490
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Schneizel just wants to be fabulous. He don't really care about anyone else actually. But his fabulousness led to his downfall at the end.
Honestly tho, kinda love to see Diethard die like that. Being killed by two person that he wanted to record most lol
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Old 2008-09-21, 18:28   Link #10491
killbethy
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There is still a difference, that's why the whole saying is "stabbed in the back." She was openly disagreeing with him and ready to face him (we don't even know if she was going to attempt to kill him), and he just shot her the back. One is courage and one is cowardess.
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Old 2008-09-21, 18:30   Link #10492
killbethy
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Originally Posted by linkinstreet View Post
Schneizel just wants to be fabulous. He don't really care about anyone else actually. But his fabulousness led to his downfall at the end.
Honestly tho, kinda love to see Diethard die like that. Being killed by two person that he wanted to record most lol
LOL well he was "done" recording Zero, which is why he made the move to shoot him. He really was justice for Diethard... his last line of wanting a Geass really cracked me up. He was a kiss ass right to the bitter end. But I still say they should release an OVA that documents CG from his point of view. It would be hilarious LOL
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Old 2008-09-21, 18:30   Link #10493
Orga777
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Originally Posted by Charred Knight View Post
The problem is that instead of defeating Schneizel in an orginal way they just pulled off the same thing they did with Mao. I can forgive a guy for ripping someone off, I can forgive a guy from ripping himself off, but ripping off your first season. If that doesn't scream "I don't give a crap" I don't know what does.
Why change something that has shown to work?

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Also Schneizel comes off like an idiot letting Lelouch sneak up behind him. Its Lelouch not Solid Snake.
This is wrong too. Schneizel was concentrating on the conversation. Because... well, he is Schneizel. Just like Lelouch sneaked up on Mao (who had mind reading powers btw) he did so to Schneizel. Schneizel was just too focused, he isn't an idiot.

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I have agreed countless times on pacing, it needed to have been longer, and it needed to have better focus.
Yes, the pacing has always been an issue this season. I have to agree here.
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Old 2008-09-21, 19:00   Link #10494
Diedrupo
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Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm View Post
So that means Shniezel and Nunally will die? Suzaku and Lelouch will disappear from the face of the world or world politics. I think a geassed Shniezel ordered to lead Britannia towards a better future and following the principles of Zero would have been alright.
Those are fake spoilers/speculations. read the ep 24 description again...
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Old 2008-09-21, 19:09   Link #10495
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How much more death flag does Xing Ke needs before he really dies?
And I lol'ed at Suzaku not caring about Tamaki lol
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Old 2008-09-21, 19:11   Link #10496
kittybear
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How much more death flag does Xing Ke needs before he really dies?
And I lol'ed at Suzaku not caring about Tamaki lol
I think suzaku's sword accidentally cut him in half then he starts shoot was the time suzaku noticed his existence.
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Old 2008-09-21, 19:14   Link #10497
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Somebody need to make a gif comparing Eva Zero-goki throwing the Lance of Longinus and Lancelot throwing the Anti Fleia lol
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Old 2008-09-21, 19:32   Link #10498
Karna
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Somebody need to make a gif comparing Eva Zero-goki throwing the Lance of Longinus and Lancelot throwing the Anti Fleia lol
when they were building the anti-fleija weapon the computer screen actually said "Longinus" on it. meaning that thats what the anti flieja is called
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Old 2008-09-21, 19:35   Link #10499
Dilla
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I just realized, did Nina stay on the Avalon? I saw her hiding in a dark corner when Xing-Ke bordered and she wasn't mentioned anymore.
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Old 2008-09-21, 19:36   Link #10500
KrimzonStriker
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I just realized did Nina stay onthe Avalon, we saw her hiding and she wasn't mentioned anymore.
Fairly certain that she did, should be fine anyway I think <_<
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"That is why we must embrace carnage. In order to not waste the blood that has already been shed, we have no choice but to shed even more."- Lelouch Vi Britannia
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