2012-06-09, 02:44 | Link #9262 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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Addendum for stuff that was added while I was typing:
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lol, well shit. I can't do that because in the end, I'm totally willing to let my hopes get crushed betting on this possibility. And the reason that's true is because, in the first place I genuinely believe it has a chance at happening. I can't help it if no one else will buy into it at the moment but I think there's something significant and clearly intentional about the fact that we have reached a point where Zenkichi x Emukae is obviously more popular than Zenkichi x Medaka, the supposed "main" pairing. |
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2012-06-09, 02:45 | Link #9263 | ||||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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I think you guys are putting way too much stock into things that a character explicitly outed as insane and deluded has said. Quote:
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So help me god if Zenkichi doesn't end up with Medaka after all he's done to get her... |
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2012-06-09, 02:50 | Link #9264 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Might as well double-post.
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We also haven't actually ever been told, directly, what a Not Equal is, I think I should mention. Shori and Aka certainly aren't deluded people and yet they still count as Not Equals. I hate Medaka, but her and Zenkichi are an excellent pairing. Also, he deserves her and will never look at Emukae as a romantic interest besides. He's not a horny loon like, oh, Araragi. |
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2012-06-09, 02:57 | Link #9265 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
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Re-read the chapter more throughly. A reference to the Main-character charisma aided by fate Spoiler:
Can't be changed by fate's fickle hand Spoiler:
Intead of by luck or some miracle, I want to beat Medaka-Chan fair and square Spoiler:
Devil Style caused her downfall because she was no longer unbeatable. Hence, on this even ground created by Devil Style, Zenkichi was able to defeat Medaka, while maintaining the feeling that was a reality done by him, and not fate/destiny. Quote:
Now you're just asking for this manga to stop being a manga. Quote:
But he smelled Medaka. And the whole confession...shit's rought for me, man. |
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2012-06-09, 03:07 | Link #9266 | ||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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You're extrapolating like mad here. The manga has only directly shown us two instances of Devil Style's (purported) effects, and both of them had only to do with events that would have run counter to Zenkichi's personal goals.
If it had come up again in another instance (which it has not, yet, which is what I've been getting at from the beginning) we might be able to learn more about it. Quote:
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2012-06-09, 03:20 | Link #9267 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
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If Devil Style simply stopped events where Zenkichi would be harmed or opposed, the whole purpose of the skill was moot from the begunning, and Zenkichi will just win all the time, and never be wrong. He'll, again, become what he destroyed. Clearly not what the manga shows and intended. Naturally, in the same room as Zenkichi, Devil Styl prevents the whims of fate of interferring. Even other people such as the musicians of the music festival were affected by it. And instead of there definitely appearing a conflicting personality, those three just happened to be hired out of chance. Quote:
Which is why Shiranui said that even with all those factors against her, she'd still win the 98% majority. This scan exists to exactly illustrate how fate would've worked in favor of Medaka: The more reasonable their speeches sounded, the more eloquent they made Medaka's. Spoiler:
And this: Even though nobody could defeat Medaka, I did? Spoiler:
I mean geez. This is the whole reason Anshin'-san labeled Devil-Style as a skill Zenkichi would use to defeat Medaka. The whole reason why It's Kanji is 'The right to do what is wrong'. The whole reason that Ajimu considered Medaka losing an impossibility was because she could never lose due to being favored by fate. That's the only reason Anshin' Couldn't defeat Medaka, as well. I mean, there's not much more to say. Devil Style was the cause for Medaka's defeat in the battle. If Devil Style didn't exist, none of the factors mentioned by Anshin'San to Shiranui would even make the slightest difference. Hence why Ajimu was so confident Zen could win, since she just heard about his Devil Style. I already explicited exactly what ones are. And Zenkichi was only the main character in Nishio's mind for all time, never in the actual manga and in the metaworld of the manga where they openly talk about the concept of 'main chanracter', until Devil Style came in. There'd a huge difference. |
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2012-06-09, 03:29 | Link #9268 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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The character who's actually been shown to be delusional (multiple times) in the series is Medaka. Making irrational/completely illogical assertions in the story is well-documented in her behaviour. In the first place, remember Medaka's "Pretentious appeal to humanity's innate goodness" behaviour? Not to mention "There are no such things as geniuses", "I'm not special", and her refusal to even dodge attacks people (Unzen, Unzen's sister) threw at her because "There's no reason for me to be attacked by you". Medaka describing all of Ajimu's perceptions as "Simulated Reality" complex was just another example of her forcing her delusions onto other people. The reason none of the other characters believed Ajimu is precisely because they're just manga characters, and that accepting such a possibility about their reality would seem crazy to them. Ajimu's unique knowledge of Medaka Box as a fictional reality is exactly the defining characteristic which sets her apart as a Not Equal. |
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2012-06-09, 03:41 | Link #9269 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Yeah, again, I'm pretty convinced that Ajimu is, in fact, intended to be seen as a delusional character. That's what made the resolution in 140 so clever to me, as while characters making metafictional jokes is very common in NisiOisiN's works, a character being called out as insane for their supposed awareness of the fourth wall... that's something quite different.
If she IS right about the world being a manga (in-universe, that is) then that makes Medaka's big realization, and all the foreshadowing leading up to that seem kind of pointless, doesn't it? Quote:
What, ones that still continue to apply to Medaka, even now? Whatever, guys, I don't think we're going to agree on this. |
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2012-06-09, 04:02 | Link #9270 | |
Romanticist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 33
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I don't see how it would make anything pointless though. Suppose that the summation of all our thoughts and experiences were just figments within the imagination of some otherworldly being, would that make them any less real? Objective reality itself is irrelevant compared to the subjective reality that is experienced by the individual.
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2012-06-09, 04:10 | Link #9271 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
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It's a passive ability. Want to see it in work? Look at how Zenkichi is on a completely lower level to Nienami, how he couldn't snag an outright victory against her, how his power-up still made him far inferior to his opponent, or how he's the weakest in his team, or how Emukae is now fighting the strongest suitor. Those are all instances of Devil Style at work. Quote:
Medaka, for instance, previously would be able to defeat Ajimu in a confrontation, simply because she was the main character, and aided by fate could not ever lose in a conflict. Now, she openly says she has absolutely no chance in a battle against Ajimu. Another effect of Devil Style, most likely. Quote:
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2012-06-09, 06:59 | Link #9272 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
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After reading posts about what is insane or sane in World of Medaka Box
We should look at what is "Normal" in the world of Medaka Box why was Zenkichi consider "normal" since most of characters we seen are clearly not "normal in our world" like Medaka, Ajimu & all the Kurokami family plus most the other characters we seen even his mother is not "normal" so why was Zenkichi called "normal" in world where abnormal is so common should he not be technically "abnormal" since people like him are minority as we have not seen many of them of who have any important role in manga other than the successors even the Majority of the their School Hakoniwa are special so why was person like Zenkichi called "normal" This was taken by Medaka box Wiki what they stated as "normal": link http://medakabox.wikia.com/wiki/Hakoniwa_Academy Regular students who lack any special ability But how come that they are called "Normal" since they are not even majority since the majority of Academy are called "Special" Even Now Zenkichi is not "normal" but Zero which is something between normal and Abnormal. By dictionary Normal is: 1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural. 2.serving to establish a standard. 3. Psychology: a) approximately average in any psychological trait, as intelligence, personality, or emotional adjustment. b) free from any mental disorder; sane. If take this definition of Dictionary an put in the world of Medaka box since average of Hakoniwa Academy are "special or Abnormal" then that means they should be consider Normal while Zenkichi would fall below average meaning (special or Abnormal) in Hakoniwa Academy so he should be Abnormal instead of Normal. And another interesting part was what Qilli said: So if we take what Qilli said about world: Quote:
Which irony since she (Ajimu) is not even consider "Normal" but not equal. This just shows how interesting the world of Medaka box is |
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2012-06-09, 07:27 | Link #9273 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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Rather than calling Ajimu or the rest of Medaka Box's characters sane or insane, I think we have to first take into account the natural differences in their levels of perceptibility. Regardless of whether or not the Medaka Box world is just a manga, from the characters' point of view that reality is pointless unless they are actually aware of it. The subjective nature of reality tells us that, even if it is true that the world they are living in is a manga--for the majority of Medaka Box's characters, if that knowledge cannot actually change their perception of the world or alter how they live their lives and interact with it--it doesn't matter for them whether it is true or not. Given that most of the Medaka Box characters will never be able to tell that their lives are just a manga, it is perfectly "sane" for them not to act as if it were; because that is natural given their level of perception. On the other hand, given that we have literally seen, through Ajimu's eyes, how she can perceive the nature of her manga's reality (the comparison to office stationary and erasers when Zenkichi used Parasite Seeing on her; Ajimu's accurate knowledge of when she and Medaka were in colour pages; Ajimu's explicit statement that all of the characters were actually just ink drawings on paper), it is also perfectly natural ("sane") for her to act as if her reality is a manga. Rather, because Ajimu is able to see the things around her as what they are, manga drawings--it would be insane for her to act as if this weren't the case. Last edited by Sol Falling; 2012-06-09 at 11:30. Reason: typo |
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2012-06-09, 12:21 | Link #9276 | |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
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2012-06-09, 14:22 | Link #9277 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
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I think it is very simple.
I think the final will be a couple - Zenkichi x Medaka. Just before the last arch grew Medaka. It reached a limit. It is necessary to add a romantic line to manga. At last arch grows Zenkichi. Now he will save the Medaka. Not fast - it will be many many chapters. Resolved the misunderstanding about the wedding. Other options would be ridiculous. If he (Zenkichi) is the hero/MC he should be pairing to the female MC (Medaka). If it is certainly not a tragedy/drama. |
2012-06-12, 15:16 | Link #9278 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
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What gets me is how her abnormality and personality makes her so detached from understanding other peoples feelings |
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2012-06-12, 15:33 | Link #9279 | |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Zenkichi ending up with someone other than Medaka isn't as farfetch'd as you're suggesting. |
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2012-06-12, 15:40 | Link #9280 | |
匂宮家
Join Date: Apr 2012
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A little off-topic, but Chapter 151 of Medaka Box will have center color for it's 3rd year anniversary, along with a popularity poll announcement according to an early Medaka Box spoiler provider from 2ch:
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action, comedy, harem, nishio, romance, shounen, student council |
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