(L) Simoun

[fignae]

Spoiler for for the biggie in episode 18/19:

Originally Posted by m000m000

The way they went about things made the whole thing just more confusing than it ought to have been - Recall all the speculation here in this thread about whether the soliders or Miko's shot her, or whether she pushed the enemy miko's off the Simoun or they jumped out of their own will?

Such things of confusion, among others, should simply just not happen, especially in such key moments. If it does, it means the final presentation was executed in a poor manner.

But one might argue that the ambiguity of who shoots her makes it better. It goes with the scheme perfectly: Mamiina was never supposed to unproblematically be a hero. The tragic overtones are definitely there, along with the feeling I have that her ending is right for her despite all the evidence to the contrary. She unexpectedly rises to the occasion, then is actually killed by allies of theirs. To make that worse, her body falls beyond anyone's plan, to who-knows-what end. But looking at it another way, her sacrifice is in fact right and honourable, and the killing is a mercy killing, whilst her final accident puts her in a place out of politics and harm's way, in a place of beauty she deserves.

Eh. I'm a Noir fan, can you tell?

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Actually, one of the few complaints I have about this show is that we don't see many adult women. We've only seen what appear to be peasant communities and women as priestesses. What are all the other women doing? What is "normal life" like?

Oh, right, this issue! Thanks for the reminder. I mulled over it, then plain forgot. For a series with this many girls, it's really strange that there are no adult female characters. It's a bit like cheating. Without this knowledge, we can't tell what the female experience is like in... any one of these nations, nor can we know what might keep one of the sibyllae from choosing female.

There isn't a wide cross-section of male characters either, but the difference is thought-provoking -- though perhaps not something I'd want to sit on for too long past that initial moment of critique.

[IchiKyo]

There is a Thing that Simoun do not Deal about... And Force me think that the Main Story is really gone (Not really but...)

Spoiler:

Where is the Quest to Search Ri Maajon? We know that on Episode 1, They talk about search those Lost and Missing Ri Maajon and now after 24... We only see Those Basic Ri Maajon and Emerald was the Only one that Sybilla Search... Where's the Others so?

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by fignae

For a series with this many girls, it's really strange that there are no adult female characters. It's a bit like cheating. Without this knowledge, we can't tell what the female experience is like in... any one of these nations, nor can we know what might keep one of the sibyllae from choosing female.

There isn't a wide cross-section of male characters either, but the difference is thought-provoking -- though perhaps not something I'd want to sit on for too long past that initial moment of critique.

Maybe the fact that we don't see many female characters is an answer in itself. Kyuushu-sama, the cafeteria ladies on the Messis and maybe some of the crew on the bridge of the Arcus Prima are it. This likely means that women have a very small role in society aside from childbearing. They seem limited to religious activities not involving Simoun (which probably anyone is allowed to do) and menial tasks that men cannot be bothered to do. Erii says that if she chose to be a woman, it would limit what jobs she could do.


As for the other Ri Maajons, I think that all the concious efforts of Kyuukoku were concentrated into winning the war. They probably didn't have time to continue researching unknown Ri Maajons.

[fignae]

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

Maybe the fact that we don't see many female characters is an answer in itself. Kyuushu-sama, the cafeteria ladies on the Messis and maybe some of the crew on the bridge of the Arcus Prima are it. This likely means that women have a very small role in society aside from childbearing. They seem limited to religious activities not involving Simoun (which probably anyone is allowed to do) and menial tasks that men cannot be bothered to do. Erii says that if she chose to be a woman, it would limit what jobs she could do.

I do believe you're right. It's been said before, hasn't it (unless it was in my head...), that a patriarchal structure has either fallen into place or has continued from the time when children of both sexes were being born. I kinda forgot that what is being represented are the upper echelons of society. Skipping several steps of analysis, the series appears to be following the traditional model of exalting women as religious figures, except everyone's so real that this argument quickly falls apart for me.

Ri Maajon research was a passing remark and part of the exposition. It conveys the sense that Ri Maajons are new to them, suggests an organizational structure, and perhaps brings across how lost Neviril was in that kind of world.

[IchiKyo]

It's too bad that Rii maajon research was abandonned
Well maybe If Game Inclued that Part of The Research ? (Suppose, ok? )

[Matrim]

I am not sure agree with you about the role of women. If someone makes a film about a random war in our world, there are bound to be a lot more men then women, simply because in most, if not all countries, military personnel is predominantly male. We haven't really had a glimpse into the life of the ordinary people in Simulacrum, so I wouldn't jump to conclusions about the role of women. If Simulacrum it's a theocracy with a lot of female priests, it seems a bit illogical to be as patriarchial as let's say a random medieval European state. If the role of women was so unimportant, wouldn't the vast majority of people choose to become male?

[Kaoru Chujo]

1. Good point about the disappearance of Ri Maajon research. But the only way they can do the research is to study the Ri Maajon "on paper" (if that's where they are) and then try them, or parts of them. The reason it fell by the wayside may have been that there were no extra Simoun or time available to do it. Maybe Reikoku will pick up the torch.

2. And good point that we are in a "man's world" here, of war. But I would still have appreciated seeing at least a bit more of ordinary life, so as to see better what the whole society is like, particularly to help understand the reasons someone might choose one gender or the other. They may just not have evolved the background story that far. Fertile fields for fan fics?

Spoiler for ep26 preview:

I do expect we will see a bit more of women's life when we see the sibyllae's future lives, though.

3. Here are images of magazine pages about the two new characters in the game. The first is Sairusandora, played by Kitamura Eri, who also played Amuria (and is a friend of Koshimizu Ami's, according to Amisuke's -- Koshimizu Ami's -- blog). She says that Sairusandora looks like Amuria, but appeared on a Simoun from ancient times, as did the other new character. Kita-eri says that even though her character died in the first episode of Simoun, she has watched all the rest of the series and is a fan of the show.

The second new character is Ashura, played by Fukuen Misato. She says that Ashura is a straight-ahead warrior who is 18 but looks younger. Both seiyuu made a point of mentioning that their characters appear in shower scenes in the game.

Spoiler for images of new characters and their seiyuus:

In Koshimizu Ami's blog, the top pic on the first page right now (posted at noon Saturday) is of her with her friends Mizusawa Fumie, who plays Waporif (right) and Sanpei Yuuko (left, Renton in Eureka 7). Further down the page, she and Nazuka Kaori (Yun) are either side of Nabatame Hitomi (wearing bibs at a restaurant). And further down, the person behind the birthday cake is Kitamura Eri (Kita-eri, flanked by Amisuke and Maita -- Kadowaki Mai).

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by Matrim

I am not sure agree with you about the role of women. If someone makes a film about a random war in our world, there are bound to be a lot more men then women, simply because in most, if not all countries, military personnel is predominantly male. We haven't really had a glimpse into the life of the ordinary people in Simulacrum, so I wouldn't jump to conclusions about the role of women. If Simulacrum it's a theocracy with a lot of female priests, it seems a bit illogical to be as patriarchial as let's say a random medieval European state. If the role of women was so unimportant, wouldn't the vast majority of people choose to become male?

True, but there would likely be at least some women. All the military heads and soldiers that we see are male.
Also (I forgot about this earlier), Vyura said that the people from her choir who were inheriting the family business would become male. So, can women not own/run businesses?
It always seemed to me that the majority did choose to be male. That may just be due to our perspective, though. Fignae brought out that all we see are the upper echelons of society, so we really have no idea what Joe and Jane Worshipper are like.

[Matrim]

It always seemed to me that the majority did choose to be male.

IIRC, such a thing has never been mentioned in the series and if the male/female ratio is say 2 to 1 someone should have mentioned this fact. In the second episode it is mentioned that half of the people need to become male in order to create a society.

True, but there would likely be at least some women. All the military heads and soldiers that we see are male.

This is the case with many countries in our world, especially in the elite special forces, so this is not a conclusive proof. And maybe it's just me but the people who steer the Arcus Prima with the several wheels (why does it need more than one, I wonder) seem female to me. But then again, this could be said about many men in Simoun so it proves nothing.

Vyura said that the people from her choir who were inheriting the family business would become male. So, can women not own/run businesses?

Well, considering that a lot of the sibyllae we have seen come from prominent families, I doubt their business is something small. Maybe they are something like noblemen and inheritance goes first to those who pick male while in the lower classes there is more of a gender equality? And yes, I know I am almost grasping for straws.
Anyway, it just does not sound too plausible to have a big difference in the status of the sexes and still have roughly the same amount of males and females when people can pick a gender. I really wish there was an episode or two showing the life of the ordinary people in Simulacrum.

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by Matrim

And maybe it's just me but the people who steer the Arcus Prima with the several wheels (why does it need more than one, I wonder) seem female to me. But then again, this could be said about many men in Simoun so it proves nothing.

They seem female to me, too, but so did Wapo for the first couple episodes

Well, considering that a lot of the sibyllae we have seen come from prominent families, I doubt their business is something small. Maybe they are something like noblemen and inheritance goes first to those who pick male while in the lower classes there is more of a gender equality? And yes, I know I am almost grasping for straws.

I don't think you're grasping; I think it makes sense. It's possible that, like in many class-oriented societies, gender becomes more of an issue the higher you climb the social ladder.

Anyway, it just does not sound too plausible to have a big difference in the status of the sexes and still have roughly the same amount of males and females when people can pick a gender. I really wish there was an episode or two showing the life of the ordinary people in Simulacrum.

At least no one can whine about discrimination this way
But yeah, I see what you mean. If being a woman sucked that much, no one would become female.
Episode 26 is an epilouge, correct? Maybe we'll get some glimpses of everyday life in Simulacrum there.

[FatPianoBoy]

Double post

Is anyone currently working on scanlating/translating the manga? If there's furigana, I could do it if someone got me the scans and edited everything in.
And Wikipedia says there are two versions: the YuriHime one and a seinen comedy in Megami Magazine (). Anyone remotely familiar with either or both?

[Futaba-chan]

Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy

Is anyone currently working on scanlating/translating the manga?

Lillilicious is working on the jousei drama from Yuri Hime, in a joint project with another scanlation group. I don't think anyone is working on the seinen comedy from Megami at the moment.

[Simon]

Spoiler for meta-discussion trivia:

Something random while we count down to ep25 (six and a quarter hours to go!). Because of the embedded image in this thread's first post, my website logs pick up anyone who reads the thread from the beginning (just as well I don't have the stalker nature... or do I?). I don't normally look at the logs, but it happens that I was doing some Simoun-related work on the site over the weekend - to my surprise, we're getting quite a few hits from .jp addresses.

Now maybe that's old news to long-time AS denizens, but it gives me a happy wee flutter. Why? Because as I've ranted on about before, it really, really depresses me that this anime isn't getting the ratings it deserves. Not just in some abstract sense of "injustice to art", but because I feel for the staff and cast - it's hard enough at the best of times pouring your life into a creative endeavour, let alone when your corporate backers are ringing up saying "hey guys, your ratings suck - remind us again why we're paying you?"

So for all it's a fool's hope, I'd like to believe that just maybe someone from Bandai checks out overseas anime forums to keep tabs on their properties' licensing potential. And that, just maybe, the general tone of what we're saying here finds its way back to the production team: I have this image of the animators chained to their workstations, catheters and IV caffeine drips attached, and some perky marketing type bouncing in with a cheery "Daahlings, those crazy gaijin love your work! Gambatte, ne?"

Right, I'm not coming near this place again until I've watched ep25 - wherever you are in the world right now, I wish you well as Simoun history unfolds

[IchiKyo]

http://dat.2chan.net/18/res/3610696.htm
It's time to know the truth
Don't deserved us Deen!

[metronome]

simoun 25 shud be airing by now there
~~ can't wait can't wait
need anxious(~~ness) medicine

[Futaba-chan]

Spoiler for episode 25:

[oneplusme]

Spoiler for episode 25:

http://dat.2chan.net/18/src/1158598675440cf9a.jpg

<ahem>

[metronome]

Originally Posted by oneplusme

Spoiler for episode 25:

http://dat.2chan.net/18/src/1158598675440cf9a.jpg

<ahem>

that screencap blows~~

[FatPianoBoy]

Grarr!! Must... resist... spoilers
How have you guys already seen it? Do you live in Japan, or am I missing out on something?

[Futaba-chan]

Spoiler for the really huge one everyone has been waiting for:

Spoiler for really, seriously don't look!:

Spoiler for I'm not kidding:

Spoiler for episode 25:

パライエッタ、女 (Paraietta: F)
フロエ、男 (Floe: M)
ヴューラ、男 (Vyura: M)
カイム、女 (Kaimu: F)
アルティ、女 (Alti: F)
ロードレアモン、女 (Rodoreamon: F)
モリナス、女 (Morinas: F, and the Morinas x Wapo-chan shippers rejoice)

Spoiler for episode 26: