AnimeSuki Forums

synaesthetic · 2011-08-20, 03:48

His glasses are unbreakable.

JC... · 2011-08-20, 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firefly00

This is one thing that bothers me about an otherwise intriguing game. I can understand things like cloaking or punching through a wall needing energy, but the takedowns (lethal or otherwise)? The same takedowns an unaugmented human with the right training would be able to do easily (assuming for argument's sake a pair of Fairbairn-Sykes fighting knives instead of the armblades)? How'd that pass the Bravo-Sierra check?

It's not a question of logic, it's because they f*cked the system up. They replaced Melee with "Awesome lulzors takedowns!" and they got stuck.

It's probably one of the few things I hate about the game. It also frustrates me how they got rid of medkits so that the player wouldn't have to stop and look for them during missions while they've created this problem with the energy system.

Mr Hat and Clogs · 2011-08-20, 09:19

Im sure someone will make a mod eventually to let the energy recharge completely. I thought it was a bug too. Oh well guess will hit a vendor up before a mission or rob a Quick-e-mart! It does seem to make the energy recharging augments a lot less attractive though. I guess it is to stop permanent stealthing through missions. But surely that could be achieved otherways.

Drake · 2011-08-20, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC...

It's not a question of logic, it's because they f*cked the system up. They replaced Melee with "Awesome lulzors takedowns!" and they got stuck.

It's probably one of the few things I hate about the game. It also frustrates me how they got rid of medkits so that the player wouldn't have to stop and look for them during missions while they've created this problem with the energy system.

Med-kits are still in there they're just not called med-kits anymore (cant mind what they call them).

Also I honestly don't have any problem with the energy system it works just fine and keeps the game interesting instead of just cloaking through each level using the melee take-down which would just make it too easy and dull. Even if you do run out of cells one will always regen after so you will always have at least one just in case.

Besides which your in the future using mechanical arms with hidden blades in them taking guys down with super human strength (sometimes 2 at a time) many of which are wearing armour or are augmented so I think its completely fair that it uses an energy cell.

To add its worth noting you can use praxis kits to upgrade the amount of energy cells you have instead of using them just for new aug's or upgrading others.

SoldierOfDarkness · 2011-08-20, 15:58

Well I finished the demo.

Not bad, I like this game.

I was able to go through the entire game without killing a single person (bar the bosses). It just took longer. With the tranq and stun gun I would use them sparingly. Otherwise I would throw boxes around to lure the victims away before knocking them out.

In regards to the energy I was able to work around with it but the idea that you cannot recharge your energy cells compared to health still doesn't sit right with me at all. It just really restricts what you can do if you wanna plan to cloak, go in, activate typhoon, then cloak and run away. I mean come on give us the possibilities and flexibility. It's a single player game not MP. It reminds me of Yahtzee on Zero Punctuation at the escapist where he pointed out in Crysis 2 it's silly that you cannot do a combo of moves because by the time you use speed you don't have any energy left for anything else and have to wait.

I think you can have a maximum of 5 cells so long as your careful with the cloak. I would only use the cloak when I'm running between covers and then deactivate when it's at 10% cell to avoid losing that energy cell.

One thing that bugs me though is the choice between lethal and non-lethal. It's almost if the game punishes the player for choosing lethal. if you go non-lethal then you normally would get at least up to 50xp. if you go lethal then max is about 30xp. It just encourages players to go for non-lethal but I think it's better to keep them the same. I suppose it's harder when you go the pacifist route but you get a lot more exp going that route. Granted it's a difference of 20xp but I need to see the full game if it really makes a difference or not but I don't think they should encourage you to go the pacifist route by rewarding you more that way. Even if you go the stealth way and avoid people you don't get exp that way either.

I just hope that regardless of the routes you pick you can still get the maximum number of praxis points if you want to be hacker, stealth, killer, etc.

Drake · 2011-08-20, 17:01

They probably give you more xp for the stealth route because it takes longer and requires more planning and patience than just charging in and shooting up the place.

I think there is plenty of room for flexibility with the energy especially if you pick up a few power bar things (since you find then pretty regularly) and bind them to an inventory quick slot, it just take planning. I've no idea what you can get the cells up too but in the beta I managed 5 or 6 which was more than enough for what I was using it for since I was relying just as much on my weapons and gadgets.

SoldierOfDarkness · 2011-08-20, 17:24

Oh no I meant the takedowns.

If you do a non-lethal takedown, you get 50 xp

If you do a lethal takedown, you get 30 xp.

The choice between guns and such I understand but I think it's silly that the non-lethal gives more than the lethal. The Lethal methods are so much cooler.

IMO there should be varied xps in regards to weapons as well. Combat rifles standard exp but if you use a pistol or sniper you get more or less depending on the situation. If you use the crossbow then you should get more exp. On that matter where is the crossbow? I can't find it.

Though in any case I'm going to run this game again with lethal attacks all the way and see what happens if I get the same amount of praxis. If it's negliable then yeah.

Chaos2Frozen · 2011-08-20, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake

I think there is plenty of room for flexibility with the energy especially if you pick up a few power bar things (since you find then pretty regularly) and bind them to an inventory quick slot, it just take planning. I've no idea what you can get the cells up too but in the beta I managed 5 or 6 which was more than enough for what I was using it for since I was relying just as much on my weapons and gadgets.

The augmentation is upgradable to three levels, so a maximum of five bars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Oh no I meant the takedowns.

If you do a non-lethal takedown, you get 50 xp

If you do a lethal takedown, you get 30 xp.

The choice between guns and such I understand but I think it's silly that the non-lethal gives more than the lethal. The Lethal methods are so much cooler.

I'm guessing because non-lethal you run a risk that they'll wake up before you're done with the mission and complicate things, so the extra xp is an incentive for you to take that risk.

SoldierOfDarkness · 2011-08-20, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I'm guessing because non-lethal you run a risk that they'll wake up before you're done with the mission and complicate things, so the extra xp is an incentive for you to take that risk.

Oh yeah? In the police station I simply just dumped the cops' bodies in the vent.

See how they wake up from THAT

Waven · 2011-08-20, 18:00

I'm not sure but I would've assumed that knocked out npcs can't get up again. I can't remember this happening in the first two games either. I mean if it was like that what prevents me from going for the 50xp non lethal stealth ko and then killing them with some kind of silent and ressourceful weapon (read:blade) to make sure they stay down?

This reminds me of the DX2 shower of death where you could put unconscious npcs in the shower, turn it on and they would all die. I know that slipping in the shower can be dangerous but this?

I even saw a video that shows how to kill Billie with the shower in her appartment right in the beginning of the game.

I would like if the xp bonus for nonlethal takedowns only existed for "neutral" opponents like common police forces or hired security personal that are not bad per se but just take bad orders. You know, those guys that just do the job to feed their 6 children or whatever. The main evil factions (e.g. mj-12), however, their troops should know what they signed up for, they confidently working for the cause of the faction so they already sold their soul so to speak.... it's actually quite the hollywood clichee though.

Drake · 2011-08-20, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

The augmentation is upgradable to three levels, so a maximum of five bars.

I'm guessing because non-lethal you run a risk that they'll wake up before you're done with the mission and complicate things, so the extra xp is an incentive for you to take that risk.

Yeah it probably would have been that I wasn't sure of the figure exactly.

Like others have said it doesn't look like they wake up again on their own so maybe the xp difference is just a morality thing since you where a swat cop after all.

Waven · 2011-08-20, 19:14

Remember you were also rewarded in DX1 for doing some missions mostly nonlethal, like that unatco quartermaster wouldn't give you some item if you kill your way through the "radar on the roof" mission iirc.

Chaos2Frozen · 2011-08-20, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waven

I would like if the xp bonus for nonlethal takedowns only existed for "neutral" opponents like common police forces or hired security personal that are not bad per se but just take bad orders. You know, those guys that just do the job to feed their 6 children or whatever. The main evil factions (e.g. mj-12), however, their troops should know what they signed up for, they confidently working for the cause of the faction so they already sold their soul so to speak.... it's actually quite the hollywood clichee though.

Mercenaries have friends and families too you know

Firefly00 · 2011-08-20, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Mercenaries have friends and families too you know...

Quite true. See the common trope 'Punch-Clock Villain'. A Prototype webcomic whose location escapes me at present really brings the point home: first panel, Alex stealth-consumes a random Marine; then in the next panel a Blackwatch trooper shows up and offers a box, explaining that since 'Bob' will be rotating out in a couple of weeks, the guys all chipped in and bought something for the family...

SoldierOfDarkness · 2011-08-20, 22:32

Huh, so apparently "lethal" takedowns are a lot noiser than "non-lethal" takedowns. In a warehouse I took one guy down lethally and everyone heard it. When I did it non-lethal they never noticed.

So....

Non-lethal
-Knocks guys out quietly
-gains more exp
-May wake up if found...IF

Lethal
-Knocks guys out loudly so that everyone next door can hear
-gains less exp
................

It's almost like their punishing you for being lethal

Decagon · 2011-08-20, 22:47

Do you get extra points for a non lethal takedown and then executing the guy you just knocked out?

Jeffry2009 · 2011-08-21, 00:26

Deus Ex: Human Revolution Shows Final Fantasy XXVII?

Waven · 2011-08-21, 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Mercenaries have friends and families too you know

When I wrote that I almost knew someone would bring up Austin Powers!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffry2009

Deus Ex: Human Revolution Shows Final Fantasy XXVII?

That's 13 FF games in just 16 years if I'm correct

Mr Hat and Clogs · 2011-08-23, 01:07

Jeffry2009 · 2011-08-23, 02:13

Urrghh... This is just getting ridiculous especially who owned the console version of it (Duke Nukem Forever was way too worst than this one).

2011-08-20, 03:48	Link #121
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 39	His glasses are unbreakable. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2011-08-20, 09:19	Link #123
Mr Hat and Clogs Did someone call a doctor Join Date: Apr 2007 Age: 40	Im sure someone will make a mod eventually to let the energy recharge completely. I thought it was a bug too. Oh well guess will hit a vendor up before a mission or rob a Quick-e-mart! It does seem to make the energy recharging augments a lot less attractive though. I guess it is to stop permanent stealthing through missions. But surely that could be achieved otherways. __________________

2011-08-20, 17:01	Link #126
Drake dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Northern Ireland	They probably give you more xp for the stealth route because it takes longer and requires more planning and patience than just charging in and shooting up the place. I think there is plenty of room for flexibility with the energy especially if you pick up a few power bar things (since you find then pretty regularly) and bind them to an inventory quick slot, it just take planning. I've no idea what you can get the cells up too but in the beta I managed 5 or 6 which was more than enough for what I was using it for since I was relying just as much on my weapons and gadgets. __________________

2011-08-20, 17:24	Link #127
SoldierOfDarkness The Dark Knight Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think? Age: 38	Oh no I meant the takedowns. If you do a non-lethal takedown, you get 50 xp If you do a lethal takedown, you get 30 xp. The choice between guns and such I understand but I think it's silly that the non-lethal gives more than the lethal. The Lethal methods are so much cooler. IMO there should be varied xps in regards to weapons as well. Combat rifles standard exp but if you use a pistol or sniper you get more or less depending on the situation. If you use the crossbow then you should get more exp. On that matter where is the crossbow? I can't find it. Though in any case I'm going to run this game again with lethal attacks all the way and see what happens if I get the same amount of praxis. If it's negliable then yeah. Last edited by SoldierOfDarkness; 2011-08-20 at 17:40.

2011-08-20, 18:00	Link #130
Waven Itadaki-nyaaa !! Join Date: Apr 2008	I'm not sure but I would've assumed that knocked out npcs can't get up again. I can't remember this happening in the first two games either. I mean if it was like that what prevents me from going for the 50xp non lethal stealth ko and then killing them with some kind of silent and ressourceful weapon (read:blade) to make sure they stay down? This reminds me of the DX2 shower of death where you could put unconscious npcs in the shower, turn it on and they would all die. I know that slipping in the shower can be dangerous but this? I even saw a video that shows how to kill Billie with the shower in her appartment right in the beginning of the game. I would like if the xp bonus for nonlethal takedowns only existed for "neutral" opponents like common police forces or hired security personal that are not bad per se but just take bad orders. You know, those guys that just do the job to feed their 6 children or whatever. The main evil factions (e.g. mj-12), however, their troops should know what they signed up for, they confidently working for the cause of the faction so they already sold their soul so to speak.... it's actually quite the hollywood clichee though. Last edited by Waven; 2011-08-20 at 18:17.

2011-08-20, 15:58	Link #125
SoldierOfDarkness The Dark Knight Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think? Age: 38	Well I finished the demo. Not bad, I like this game. I was able to go through the entire game without killing a single person (bar the bosses). It just took longer. With the tranq and stun gun I would use them sparingly. Otherwise I would throw boxes around to lure the victims away before knocking them out. In regards to the energy I was able to work around with it but the idea that you cannot recharge your energy cells compared to health still doesn't sit right with me at all. It just really restricts what you can do if you wanna plan to cloak, go in, activate typhoon, then cloak and run away. I mean come on give us the possibilities and flexibility. It's a single player game not MP. It reminds me of Yahtzee on Zero Punctuation at the escapist where he pointed out in Crysis 2 it's silly that you cannot do a combo of moves because by the time you use speed you don't have any energy left for anything else and have to wait. I think you can have a maximum of 5 cells so long as your careful with the cloak. I would only use the cloak when I'm running between covers and then deactivate when it's at 10% cell to avoid losing that energy cell. One thing that bugs me though is the choice between lethal and non-lethal. It's almost if the game punishes the player for choosing lethal. if you go non-lethal then you normally would get at least up to 50xp. if you go lethal then max is about 30xp. It just encourages players to go for non-lethal but I think it's better to keep them the same. I suppose it's harder when you go the pacifist route but you get a lot more exp going that route. Granted it's a difference of 20xp but I need to see the full game if it really makes a difference or not but I don't think they should encourage you to go the pacifist route by rewarding you more that way. Even if you go the stealth way and avoid people you don't get exp that way either. I just hope that regardless of the routes you pick you can still get the maximum number of praxis points if you want to be hacker, stealth, killer, etc.

2011-08-20, 19:14	Link #132
Waven Itadaki-nyaaa !! Join Date: Apr 2008	Remember you were also rewarded in DX1 for doing some missions mostly nonlethal, like that unatco quartermaster wouldn't give you some item if you kill your way through the "radar on the roof" mission iirc.

2011-08-20, 22:32	Link #135
SoldierOfDarkness The Dark Knight Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think? Age: 38	Huh, so apparently "lethal" takedowns are a lot noiser than "non-lethal" takedowns. In a warehouse I took one guy down lethally and everyone heard it. When I did it non-lethal they never noticed. So.... Non-lethal -Knocks guys out quietly -gains more exp -May wake up if found...IF Lethal -Knocks guys out loudly so that everyone next door can hear -gains less exp ................ It's almost like their punishing you for being lethal

2011-08-20, 22:47	Link #136
Decagon This was meaningless Scanlator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Not on this site no more. Age: 36	Do you get extra points for a non lethal takedown and then executing the guy you just knocked out?

2011-08-21, 00:26	Link #137
Jeffry2009 Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Age: 37	Deus Ex: Human Revolution Shows Final Fantasy XXVII?

2011-08-23, 01:07	Link #139
Mr Hat and Clogs Did someone call a doctor Join Date: Apr 2007 Age: 40	<p>No iframe support, please <a href="http://youtu.be/jyALlWozgZA">watch on YouTube</a>.</p> __________________

2011-08-23, 02:13	Link #140
Jeffry2009 Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Age: 37	<p>No iframe support, please <a href="http://youtu.be/Jb1aUN1vZcU">watch on YouTube</a>.</p> Urrghh... This is just getting ridiculous especially who owned the console version of it (Duke Nukem Forever was way too worst than this one).