AnimeSuki Forums

Iby · 2012-07-14, 12:27

BTW I find it interesting that there and there Naze is the most shocked/pissed by Zen's death from his student council members' side. The others' reaction faces look somewhat standard for me.

ccie20012 · 2012-07-14, 14:09

@Tenchi Hou Take
For clarity, I want to clarify what I meant by "bad end" the death of Zen. Or Medaka. Or both. Only this. No, no, I do not want this "end".
It will be very depressing.
+ I agree with your phrase

@Iby
it is debatable who is more shocked.
Kudaki Torai too shocked, she even accuses Medaka in the absence of the soul.
This is not true. But it shows that she cares for the Zen.

Iby · 2012-07-14, 14:42

I just meant that they don't look as shocked as Nase for. Just the way they all were drawn.

Wolfenstein · 2012-07-14, 20:40

How the flying hell can you deny that Zen has a harem, Lol?

It's obvious that that is a small plot element. Maybe it dosen't change his feelings towards Medaka, but that it'self dosen't change the fact it's there.

Kioras · 2012-07-15, 00:26

Eh, Zen isn't really a harem lead, he has single target sexuality towards Medaka, and atleast since he acknowledges and then rejected Emuke's feelings, it is different then most harem leads.

If the story wants to do a harem parody, they already have a good character to use, a lovable loser, who manages to win most of the time through losing, Kumagawa.

Kumagawa would make a very good harem lead, if not for the fact that he is perverted enough to seek one out, and savy enough to atleast pick up on other students attractions.

Randrak42 · 2012-07-15, 00:26

Harems...Harems everywhere!

Tenchi Hou Take · 2012-07-15, 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kioras

Eh, Zen isn't really a harem lead, he has single target sexuality towards Medaka, and atleast since he acknowledges and then rejected Emuke's feelings, it is different then most harem leads.

If the story wants to do a harem parody, they already have a good character to use, a lovable loser, who manages to win most of the time through losing, Kumagawa.

Kumagawa would make a very good harem lead, if not for the fact that he is perverted enough to seek one out, and savy enough to atleast pick up on other students attractions.

That's like saying Tsukune isn't a harem lead or most others (he most certainly has only been chasing the one girl). Name me a harem lead that was truly interested in multiple girls that wasn't Ise. They either ignore their advances don't know or chase after one girl.

Zenkichi isn't a harem lead but most harem leads don't do what your saying hell the entire trope is built on precisely the fact they don't.

Darknemo2000 · 2012-07-15, 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kioras

Eh, Zen isn't really a harem lead, he has single target sexuality towards Medaka, and atleast since he acknowledges and then rejected Emuke's feelings, it is different then most harem leads.

Then Love Hina is not a harem and all other harem shows are not harems too. There are only a very small number of animes where the main guy would be interested in multiple girls rather than singling out someone.

Face it, if multiple girls has interest in the mC then its a harem regardless of how the guy feels.

DawnEmperor · 2012-07-15, 03:16

O.o Rather interesting debate we're having...

@Iby A few possibilities on Naze's reaction

-She cares for Zenkichi because she knows he's important to her sister
-In the Minus arc, they were shown to have a relatively close relationship(probably due to being more comically serious than other characters). Zenkichi trained under Naze, and still respects her even as student council president.

ccie20012 · 2012-07-15, 07:37

I am interested in the scientific definition of the harem.
So let: will be the operator of romantic feelings or for shorter "Love"
The strong determination of the harem
men to female 1:N, N> 2

Weak definition of the harem
female to men N:1, N> 2

But I think it is a necessary but insufficient definition of a harem.

It is necessary to introduce the concept of "interaction radius" and "interaction time".
This is what is described by the words "the protagonist is surrounded by girls."

Then we will distinguish between "weak form of the harem" and "is not a harem."

I would call harem a stable (it is important not to retire from the harem), a long time (since the beginning of the action or with the onset of the anime / manga), a group of girls around the main character.
For those who are not close an analogy from physics or mathematics, I can refer to such social concepts, such as the Mafia or people working on a project (very close to working, such as the founders of company, and the like) .
In the end you can see what a harem, as it was originally understood
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harem

Now the counter-example - not a harem, but it is appropriate to define a weak harem.
Let us be the anime that during the whole of the two girls competing for the main character.
But at the beginning of one chapter comes a third, which sympathizes with the hero from afar, and then out of the game, for example, went to another city.
According to the weak definition of the harem - a harem. Purely mathematically 3:1.
Although according to the logic - it's not a harem.
If we apply the "interaction radius" and "interaction time" it becomes clear that the main character was not surrounded by three girls.
It was a love triangle.

I think to add the definition of a harem.
You must add function "care" of the protagonist to member his harem.
For this to the harem was also necessary that the main characters took care (rescued from trouble, help with problem solving, etc.) for all the girls in his harem.
For options, when in the harem protagonist chooses only one girl - we get an analogue of the family with his wife and a lot of sisters (relations with other girls close, but not sexual).

So we went back to the origins of the definition of the harem.
Harem is a family.

Tenchi Hou Take · 2012-07-15, 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccie20012

I am interested in the scientific definition of the harem.
So let: will be the operator of romantic feelings or for shorter "Love"
The strong determination of the harem
men to female 1:N, N> 2

Weak definition of the harem
female to men N:1, N> 2

But I think it is a necessary but insufficient definition of a harem.

It is necessary to introduce the concept of "interaction radius" and "interaction time".
This is what is described by the words "the protagonist is surrounded by girls."

Then we will distinguish between "weak form of the harem" and "is not a harem."

I would call harem a stable (it is important not to retire from the harem), a long time (since the beginning of the action or with the onset of the anime / manga), a group of girls around the main character.
For those who are not close an analogy from physics or mathematics, I can refer to such social concepts, such as the Mafia or people working on a project (very close to working, such as the founders of company, and the like) .
In the end you can see what a harem, as it was originally understood
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harem

Now the counter-example - not a harem, but it is appropriate to define a weak harem.
Let us be the anime that during the whole of the two girls competing for the main character.
But at the beginning of one chapter comes a third, which sympathizes with the hero from afar, and then out of the game, for example, went to another city.
According to the weak definition of the harem - a harem. Purely mathematically 3:1.
Although according to the logic - it's not a harem.
If we apply the "interaction radius" and "interaction time" it becomes clear that the main character was not surrounded by three girls.
It was a love triangle.

I think to add the definition of a harem.
You must add function "care" of the protagonist to member his harem.
For this to the harem was also necessary that the main characters took care (rescued from trouble, help with problem solving, etc.) for all the girls in his harem.
For options, when in the harem protagonist chooses only one girl - we get an analogue of the family with his wife and a lot of sisters (relations with other girls close, but not sexual).

So we went back to the origins of the definition of the harem.
Harem is a family.

The fuck man the most ridiculous shit I've seen all day. You put far too much effort into something completely worthless. We're saying by anime/manga terms Zenkichi has a harem, this is ignoring actual definitions, since it's obvious been distorted in that defintion. And in this context we are correct. It's pointless bringing anything else into it.

So let it go man let it go...

silvercover · 2012-07-15, 08:22

your thinking too much about this...

harem = a guy who has plenty of mistresses/wives.

anyways:
shiranui loves zen because he's pretty much the only person who sees her as a friend.
emukae was able to see past her mindset of a minus to see how good her powers can be.
medaka was saved from a negative mindset and later got freed from an obligation by zen.

unconfirmed(due to not confessing but there are flags):
naze develops a bond with zen after training him, her "forcing" to be the VP can be seen as a flag.
torai is one of the first generation of the flask plan which came from zen. flag was when she was embarrassed after being pushed down.
ajimu trained zen with not only power/skill but also cooking and stuff. being annoyed at his "death" and sealing when she had no problems with others is a very big flag.

that's enough to count, your just thinking too much about all this.

ccie20012 · 2012-07-15, 08:34

A lot of effort. You're kidding.

It's just fun for me.
The joke and the like.
Sorry if it offended anyone.

Guernsey · 2012-07-15, 15:59

Medaka Box had played with genres before, why not harem? It is was a slice of life, shonen battle manga, 'love comedy' and surreal gag manga before.

Last Carpet · 2012-07-15, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guernsey

Medaka Box had played with genres before, why not harem? It is was a slice of life, shonen battle manga, 'love comedy' and surreal gag manga before.

And both Medaka and Zenkichi have characters who wouldn't mind being more than friends

Medaka: Hyuga/Akune/Oudo/Maguro/Misogi/The Suitors(from a family strength standpoint)

Zenkichi: Shiranui/Nekomi/Naze/Mukae/Ajimu/Possibly Torai

Westlo · 2012-07-16, 04:16

Zen has a harem, Medaka has a reverse harem, Kumagawa has a harem, why are we even arguing this point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Somehow that doesn't make sense. We still have the second season of the anime, meaning at the very least it won't be ending this year and if Nisio really wanted it to end soon he would have done it last arc and simply elongated that. as it would have been more of "climatic" finish. There's at least one more arc after this one, unless he plans to really drag it out.

Doesn't make sense? lol.

This second season of anime was planned back when it was originally announced/rumored 10 months ago. If you think the second season has any bearing on the current state of the manga... L O L.

JUMP TIERS.

One Piece Tier - One Piece
Million Seller Tier - Naruto, Hunter X Hunter
500k+ Tier - BLEACH, Bakuman
400k+ Tier - Toriko, Gintama, Kuroko, Reborn
300k+ Tier - Mago (canceled)
200k+ Tier - Beezlebub, SKET DANCE
100k+ Tier - Medaka Box, Nisekoi (best vol 2 opening week since Bakuman)
50k+ Tier - Kurogane, Magico (canceled)

That's what Jump cares about, not that they have a second season airing in 3 months time which was already planned over 10 months ago. Kuroko went from being slightly better than Medaka Box to possibly being Top 6 in sales. All due to the anime, the Medaka Box anime had no bearing on sales.

And this is damning.

Quote:

First Half 2012 - Accumulative Average Sales of Old Volumes

122,667　- ONE PIECE
*78,333　- Kuroko no Basket
*60,534　- HUNTER×HUNTER
*47,561　- Toriko
*33,644　- SKET DANCE
*29,686　- Bakuman
*23,750　- Beelzebub
*17,464　- Gintama
*15,917　- NARUTO
*12,309　- Nurarihyon no Mago
**5,983　- REBORN!
**5,013　- BLEACH

Not even listed, so the avg increase in sales of old volumes is under 5k.

The anime was a disaster period

Tenchi Hou Take · 2012-07-16, 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westlo

Zen has a harem, Medaka has a reverse harem, Kumagawa has a harem, why are we even arguing this point?

Doesn't make sense? lol.

This second season of anime was planned back when it was originally announced/rumored 10 months ago. If you think the second season has any bearing on the current state of the manga... L O L.

JUMP TIERS.

One Piece Tier - One Piece
Million Seller Tier - Naruto, Hunter X Hunter
500k+ Tier - BLEACH, Bakuman
400k+ Tier - Toriko, Gintama, Kuroko, Reborn
300k+ Tier - Mago (canceled)
200k+ Tier - Beezlebub, SKET DANCE
100k+ Tier - Medaka Box, Nisekoi (best vol 2 opening week since Bakuman)
50k+ Tier - Kurogane, Magico (canceled)

That's what Jump cares about, not that they have a second season airing in 3 months time which was already planned over 10 months ago. Kuroko went from being slightly better than Medaka Box to possibly being Top 6 in sales. All due to the anime, the Medaka Box anime had no bearing on sales.

And this is damning.

Not even listed, so the avg increase in sales of old volumes is under 5k.

The anime was a disaster period

Technically Kuroko's been a hundred+ seller for a while now and only recently got bumped due to anime. Beelzebub had an anime for ages, which in the end didn't help the sales all that much.

Common sense dictates they won't cancel the manga before or during the anime, regardless how bad it's doing. So what was your point again? We all knew tha anime was going to do bad, it had terrible animation and was animating the boring slice of life part that almost got the manga cancelled. This isn't exactly news.

Actually for your information second season being planned from onset and actually occuring are two separate things. Kamisama dolls had a second season planned, and even had a promo of it during the first season, plenty of others the same it didn't happen because of poor sales. Knowing how gainax tends not to animate things well before there release, they could have easily just cancelled it since it wasn't announced from the start. It's not like it was Fate/Zero where we knew it was a split season.

ccie20012 · 2012-07-16, 05:53

Season 2 Formally Announced
http://www.moetron.com/2012/06/20/me...lly-announced/

Gainax can cancelled it, but it formally announced.

I'm think it aired in October 2012.

More question about 3-th and more seasons ....

Iby · 2012-07-16, 20:37

Wow, that's some fresh news.

Sarun · 2012-07-17, 01:10

What can't be ignored is that Medaka Box had terrible/negligble boost from the anime.

Edit: maybe terrible or negligible might not be exactly right.

2012-07-14, 12:27	Link #10041
Iby minority spirit(?) Fansubber Join Date: May 2011 Location: Hyakka Ryoran Age: 33	BTW I find it interesting that there and there Naze is the most shocked/pissed by Zen's death from his student council members' side. The others' reaction faces look somewhat standard for me. Last edited by Iby; 2012-07-14 at 13:51.

2012-07-15, 07:37	Link #10050
ccie20012 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	I am interested in the scientific definition of the harem. So let: will be the operator of romantic feelings or for shorter "Love" The strong determination of the harem men to female 1:N, N> 2 Weak definition of the harem female to men N:1, N> 2 But I think it is a necessary but insufficient definition of a harem. It is necessary to introduce the concept of "interaction radius" and "interaction time". This is what is described by the words "the protagonist is surrounded by girls." Then we will distinguish between "weak form of the harem" and "is not a harem." I would call harem a stable (it is important not to retire from the harem), a long time (since the beginning of the action or with the onset of the anime / manga), a group of girls around the main character. For those who are not close an analogy from physics or mathematics, I can refer to such social concepts, such as the Mafia or people working on a project (very close to working, such as the founders of company, and the like) . In the end you can see what a harem, as it was originally understood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harem Now the counter-example - not a harem, but it is appropriate to define a weak harem. Let us be the anime that during the whole of the two girls competing for the main character. But at the beginning of one chapter comes a third, which sympathizes with the hero from afar, and then out of the game, for example, went to another city. According to the weak definition of the harem - a harem. Purely mathematically 3:1. Although according to the logic - it's not a harem. If we apply the "interaction radius" and "interaction time" it becomes clear that the main character was not surrounded by three girls. It was a love triangle. I think to add the definition of a harem. You must add function "care" of the protagonist to member his harem. For this to the harem was also necessary that the main characters took care (rescued from trouble, help with problem solving, etc.) for all the girls in his harem. For options, when in the harem protagonist chooses only one girl - we get an analogue of the family with his wife and a lot of sisters (relations with other girls close, but not sexual). So we went back to the origins of the definition of the harem. Harem is a family. Last edited by ccie20012; 2012-07-15 at 08:07.

2012-07-15, 15:59	Link #10054
Guernsey The GAP Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Medaka Box had played with genres before, why not harem? It is was a slice of life, shonen battle manga, 'love comedy' and surreal gag manga before. __________________

2012-07-16, 05:53	Link #10058
ccie20012 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	Season 2 Formally Announced http://www.moetron.com/2012/06/20/me...lly-announced/ Gainax can cancelled it, but it formally announced. I'm think it aired in October 2012. More question about 3-th and more seasons .... Last edited by ccie20012; 2012-07-16 at 06:03.

2012-07-17, 01:10	Link #10060
Sarun Member Join Date: Jun 2012	What can't be ignored is that Medaka Box had terrible/negligble boost from the anime. Edit: maybe terrible or negligible might not be exactly right. __________________ Avatar by Daisy Phantom of Zerochan

2012-07-14, 14:09	Link #10042
ccie20012 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	@Tenchi Hou Take For clarity, I want to clarify what I meant by "bad end" the death of Zen. Or Medaka. Or both. Only this. No, no, I do not want this "end". It will be very depressing. + I agree with your phrase @Iby it is debatable who is more shocked. Kudaki Torai too shocked, she even accuses Medaka in the absence of the soul. This is not true. But it shows that she cares for the Zen.

2012-07-14, 14:42	Link #10043
Iby minority spirit(?) Fansubber Join Date: May 2011 Location: Hyakka Ryoran Age: 33	I just meant that they don't look as shocked as Nase for. Just the way they all were drawn.

2012-07-14, 20:40	Link #10044
Wolfenstein Senior Member Join Date: May 2012	How the flying hell can you deny that Zen has a harem, Lol? It's obvious that that is a small plot element. Maybe it dosen't change his feelings towards Medaka, but that it'self dosen't change the fact it's there.

2012-07-15, 00:26	Link #10045
Kioras Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010	Eh, Zen isn't really a harem lead, he has single target sexuality towards Medaka, and atleast since he acknowledges and then rejected Emuke's feelings, it is different then most harem leads. If the story wants to do a harem parody, they already have a good character to use, a lovable loser, who manages to win most of the time through losing, Kumagawa. Kumagawa would make a very good harem lead, if not for the fact that he is perverted enough to seek one out, and savy enough to atleast pick up on other students attractions.

2012-07-15, 00:26	Link #10046
Randrak42 ANEGO Worshiper Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: By the vending machine, drinking tea.	Harems...Harems everywhere!

2012-07-15, 03:16	Link #10049
DawnEmperor Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Somewhere	O.o Rather interesting debate we're having... @Iby A few possibilities on Naze's reaction -She cares for Zenkichi because she knows he's important to her sister -In the Minus arc, they were shown to have a relatively close relationship(probably due to being more comically serious than other characters). Zenkichi trained under Naze, and still respects her even as student council president.

2012-07-15, 08:22	Link #10052
silvercover Romance Expert Join Date: Feb 2012	your thinking too much about this... harem = a guy who has plenty of mistresses/wives. anyways: shiranui loves zen because he's pretty much the only person who sees her as a friend. emukae was able to see past her mindset of a minus to see how good her powers can be. medaka was saved from a negative mindset and later got freed from an obligation by zen. unconfirmed(due to not confessing but there are flags): naze develops a bond with zen after training him, her "forcing" to be the VP can be seen as a flag. torai is one of the first generation of the flask plan which came from zen. flag was when she was embarrassed after being pushed down. ajimu trained zen with not only power/skill but also cooking and stuff. being annoyed at his "death" and sealing when she had no problems with others is a very big flag. that's enough to count, your just thinking too much about all this.

2012-07-15, 08:34	Link #10053
ccie20012 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	A lot of effort. You're kidding. It's just fun for me. The joke and the like. Sorry if it offended anyone.

2012-07-16, 20:37	Link #10059
Iby minority spirit(?) Fansubber Join Date: May 2011 Location: Hyakka Ryoran Age: 33	Wow, that's some fresh news.