Learning Japanese

[Rembr]

Originally Posted by iLney

Thank you both.
@Rembr:
So you mean "夜" should be written in Kana instead? Or "よるくらい" (kana not kanji) is just plain wrong?

No, it should be written in kanji. It's just that the way it is set up right now could be confusing to people who look up kanjis' meanings before discerning the sentence's meaning and context.

Split the sentence like this, btw:

Kono Michi Wa
Yoru
Kurai Darou
To Omoimas

Yoru and Kurai are seperate words in this case. It's just that there is another, unique word that can be formed when you combine the kanjis of yoru and kurai.

[Crisano]

I'm having difficulty with the kanji for under construction. I have seen many different kanji used for it, but I do not know which one I should use. Basically, I'm looking for the under construction kanji that is typically used in Japan for signs regarding the status of a building or structure.

[ACGalaga]

I'm having difficulty with the kanji for under construction.

Maybe 工事　or 工事中　

I'll ask around.

[iLney]

@Rembr: Thank you.

So that sentence would be something like " I'm sure that road is dark at night?"

Next question:
私は紅茶に砂糖は入れません。

Can I use "を" there instead? And why "は"?

[ACGalaga]

Originally Posted by Crisano

...Basically, I'm looking for the under construction kanji that is typically used in Japan for signs regarding the status of a building or structure.

Ok, I asked around.

Usually 工事中　is used for construction sites. Sometimes they use 建設中 (kensetsuchuu) for when they are erecting buildings.

建　- is the kanji for 'to build' [tateru 建てる] When in a jyukugo it's often pronounced Ken~

設　- is for seting up, preparing, or establishing. [設える　shitsuraeru, 設ける moukeru]

中 - middle, during

[Crisano]

Thank you very much ACGalaga. That answered my question.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by iLney

@Rembr: Thank you.

So that sentence would be something like " I'm sure that road is dark at night?"

Next question:
私は紅茶に砂糖は入れません。

Can I use "を" there instead? And why "は"?

I'm surprised its not 'ni', espectially for the 'irimasu' verb.

I don't put sugar in my tea.

Saying that, irimasu and haimasu are verbs of movement, so no を
can't explain the 'wa', it's like they're trying to stress that they absolutely take zero sugar. (or never ever put it in their tea)
Is the nuance i get from it.

[Rembr]

You can use wo if you want to.
Use of ha implies a strong declaration or the fact that the person won't add sugar but might add something else.

[Ryuou]

Originally Posted by ACGalaga

Uchi can also mean "my house." As far as I know, even when used as "I" uchi is primarily used by girls.

Also, a lot of times Girls refer to their selves in 3rd person... which I think they believe it's cute (helps me when trying to remember their names! )

Yeah it also means "house". You can also use it to refer to people that are a part of your group or something. For instance, a senior worker referring to his staff can use "uchi no staff". I wouldn't say that it's primarily for girls, all the guys I interacted with down in the Kansai area used it too. But I'm no Kansai-ben expert.

Depending on the girl, I actually find that to be really cute.

Originally Posted by iLney

この道は夜暗いだろうと思います.

(このみちはよるくらいだろうとおもいます。)

I'm pretty sure you need a particle between "yoru" and "kurai". That being "ni". There are certain "time" words that don't need the "ni" particle after them, but I'm pretty sure "yoru" isn't one of them.
Correction, check my next post.

And then for your tea one, what Rembr said.

[bungmonkey]

Originally Posted by Mystique

I'm surprised its not 'ni', espectially for the 'irimasu' verb.

I don't put sugar in my tea.

Saying that, irimasu and haimasu are verbs of movement, so no を
can't explain the 'wa', it's like they're trying to stress that they absolutely take zero sugar. (or never ever put it in their tea)
Is the nuance i get from it.

I think you're confusing the verb ireru with the potential form of one of the ones you listed.

Originally Posted by Ryuou

I'm pretty sure you need a particle between "yoru" and "kurai". That being "ni". There are certain "time" words that don't need the "ni" particle after them, but I'm pretty sure "yoru" isn't one of them.

I'm fairly certain you don't need ni after yoru, but it's often put there. I would probably always put it there to avoid confusions like that. It's also listed as a temporal noun in the dictionaries.

[wao]

I thought that should be この道は夜は暗いだろうと思います? Or 夜が暗い(sounds wrong, whatever that means) but certainly not 夜に暗い?

I think adding a comma after 道は would make it less ambiguous. Then it'd be less confusing even for iLney.

Actually the least ambiguous alternative I'd think of would be to use 夜になると暗くなる. When it turns to night it gets dark...

[Nagato]

Actually, somehow I feel it doesn't sound natural when putting "ni" there.

The original one just sounds fine.
or maybe like this:
この道、夜には暗いだろうと思います。
この道は夜だと暗いだろうと思います。

Usually a special particle is not needed to indicate time.

Like this example:
お父さんなら今朝会社に行きましたよ。
明日学校でな。

For place usually it's needed in formal situation, but people sometimes omit it (in casual conversation, etc).

ex:
学校行く
病院池
etc

[Ryuou]

Oh okay, so "yoru" is one of those special time ones too. I'm sorry, I take back my saying you need the particle.

As is, without at least some sort of punctuation feels weird to me, but I guess it's not wrong.

Edit: Hmm...searching both ways on the internet seems to come back with many more uses containing either "ni" or a comma. This is by no ways a scientific means of finding it out, but it seems that having it be just 夜暗い is the least used of the three ways when it comes to actual sentences. I did find this though, 夜は夜暗いことには変わりは無い, which I find interesting because it suggests that maybe 夜暗い is a set word.

[Nagato]

Hmm couldn't find that

Need to search harder maybe

But I think it could be a typo (typing 夜 two times there), also double は

(Still, it's dark at night)

夜は暗いことに変わりは無い

hmm, still it sounds not very good

maybe this:
夜には暗いことに変わりは無い

or
夜が暗いことに変わりは無い

or
夜が暗いことには変わりない

The meaning (emphasis) changes a bit though.

[Ryuou]

Originally Posted by Nagato

Hmm couldn't find that

Need to search harder maybe

But I think it could be a typo (typing 夜 two times there), also double は

If you search on Yahoo Japan it should be the first one that comes up. I'm pretty sure it's not a typo, although that's not to say it isn't a wrong usage.

[Jethro]

OMG I LOVE THIS!

Thanks ^_^

[Nagato]

Originally Posted by Ryuou

If you search on Yahoo Japan it should be the first one that comes up. I'm pretty sure it's not a typo, although that's not to say it isn't a wrong usage.

Ah, found it.
And again me too, tricked by the lacking of comma there.
だって月明かりがあるとはいえ、夜は夜、暗いことには変わりは無い。

it's easier to understand now. But yeah, omitting one extra は sounds better.

だって月明かりがあるとはいえ、夜は夜、暗いことに変わりは無い。

[Guernsey]

I don't know if it is true for all japanese but why is it difficult for Japanese (or any other culture in general) to speak our language fluently?

[Ryuou]

Originally Posted by Nagato

Ah, found it.
And again me too, tricked by the lacking of comma there.
だって月明かりがあるとはいえ、夜は夜、暗いことには変わりは無い。

it's easier to understand now. But yeah, omitting one extra は sounds better.

だって月明かりがあるとはいえ、夜は夜、暗いことに変わりは無い。

Yeah, throwing a comma in there is probably the nicest way to go about it. Hmm...I agree with you on omitting the second は.

Originally Posted by Guernsey

I don't know if it is true for all japanese but why is it difficult for Japanese (or any other culture in general) to speak our language fluently?

Are you talking about Japanese people speaking English? If so, then I would say it has a lot to do with two things. First, would be the difference in sounds that are used for the respective languages. English has many words that end on consonants. Every sound in Japanese; however, ends in a vowel except for "n". So cutting off the sound seems to be pretty difficult. The other would be the system used for teaching English (and really almost everything) in place in schools. It's not a good system. Too much focus is placed on grammar, writing, reading and tests. Hardly any attention is placed on conversation, and thus, most Japanese people can't get enough practice with speaking and pronunciation. That's why English conversation schools are so popular, but I don't know how well they work.

[iLney]

Thank you all
BTW:

だって月明かりがあるとはいえ、夜は夜、暗いことに変わりは無い。

What is it translated into?

Next question:
申し訳ねえ。ボス。

How do you read that? (in reality). I can't seem to hear "shi wa" in there...