AnimeSuki Forums

Matrim · 2007-10-21, 19:13

Actually in my opinion Madlax has a very well contructed plot...if one can buy the notion of the three sacred all-powerful books, that is and get past few annoynig plotholes. I for one immensely enjoyed rewatching it recently. El Cazador doesn't even try much to tell an interesting story and if I start about the plotholes in it I might write until tomorrow.

Avenger seemingly ends halfway into the story but it totally wipes the floor with El Cazador atmopshere-wise and in sheer coolness of the characters (at least from what I remember, I haven't watched it in like forever).

Bee Train for me has always been much more about atmoshpere, characters and style than plot but a really bad plot tends to get in the away of my enjoyment of the other elements (I am looking at you, .hack\\SIGN!

).

Friday Monday and Artena have clear, if rather twisted and insane, goals. Rosenberg doesn't. Big difference, IMHO.

But in the end, it's all relative and everyone is perfectly entitled to their opinions. If I sound too grumpy, it's mostly because I had such high hopes for El Cazador, if it was a show I just happened to watch without knowing anything about its creators, I woudl have most likely enjoyed it more.

Guppy · 2007-10-21, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matrim

Actually in my opinion Madlax has a very well contructed plot...if one can buy the notion of the three sacred all-powerful books, that is and get past few annoynig plotholes. I for one immensely enjoyed rewatching it recently. El Cazador doesn't even try much to tell an interesting story and if I start about the plotholes in it I might write until tomorrow.

There's nothing wrong with the storytelling in Madlax per se, but I just found it pushed my suspension of disbelief a bit too far as the series went on. Yes, everything was explained and neatly wrapped up, but by the end my enjoyment of the series had been dulled by one too many trips down the rabbit-hole.

Quote:

Avenger seemingly ends halfway into the story but it totally wipes the floor with El Cazador atmopshere-wise and in sheer coolness of the characters (at least from what I remember, I haven't watched it in like forever).

You obviously liked it a lot more than I did. I found myself struggling to care about any of the characters by the halfway point, and while the atmosphere was reasonably well done I can't say I found it terribly memorable as post-apocalyptic settings go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matrim

Friday Monday and Artena have clear, if rather twisted and insane, goals. Rosenberg doesn't. Big difference, IMHO.

Not to me. Clear goals are necessary, but not sufficient, when it comes to making a villain memorable. Altena was very much the gardening type of mastermind - plant the seeds and send Chloe out from time to time, and that's about it. Perhaps her approach was effective (and I certainly preferred her to Rosenberg), but I can't say it ever produced much of an emotional response in me.

I found Friday Monday so ridiculous I could never take him seriously, which is perhaps another reason why I never really got into Madlax.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matrim

But in the end, it's all relative and everyone is perfectly entitled to their opinions. If I sound too grumpy, it's mostly because I had such high hopes for El Cazador, if it was a show I just happened to watch without knowing anything about its creators, I woudl have most likely enjoyed it more.

Agreed - it's good that all of us enjoy different things, or the anime industry would be even more formulaic than it is right now.

~~Taigyth~~ · 2007-10-22, 00:38

I personally loved both Madlax and Noir for different reasons. Madlax was cool in a very surreal way and Noir was awesome because of its copious gunplay. However, I liked ElCaza better than both of them. The main difference between El Cazador and its two predecessors is that it focuses on the characters and not the plot and I think many people weren't expecting that. The strong character development made Ellis and Nadie amazing characters to the point where I didn't even care about the plot anymore as long as they were on screen. The real strengths in this series don't lie with the action but with its unique quirks and flaws. This show may have aggravated some but I loved it. Kouichi Mashimo himself stated that the show was "a road movie in anime clothing". The series remains memorable to me because of its relaxed atmosphere.

This is not to say that I wouldn't mind them creating a sequel where those who were expecting more action would be satisfied. Perhaps it could even focus on Nadie's past.

Nevertheless, I'd say that ElCaza is easily one of my favorite shows. Some may disagree but hey, opinions make the anime industry go 'round.

TougeSil80 · 2007-10-25, 12:39

I have to agree with Matrim on this. Madlax and Noir are miles better than El Cazador. To me, Noir's story was the best, the "journey to the past" theme is freaking cool. Madlax's story is also pretty good, but yea, I also think it's a bit too unbelievable. Both shows' main character has some kind of connection to each other, which El Cazador lacks, and while Noir and Madlax have some filler eps, the entire El Cazador series feels like filler. It's seems like they just drove around in their Mustang for the entire series and yet went nowhere. Also, in both Noir and Madlax the main characters and villains kick ass. I still remember that Chloe vs Kirika fight. But in this series, Nadie's gun skills sucks, Ellis can't control her power, Richardo isn't really anything special, Rosenberg just sits in his office. The only character that's somewhat interesting is LA. This is one of the worst Bee Train show (that I have watched so far). I found .hack//Sign more interesting that this.

hipeach · 2007-10-25, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guido

At long last, Starlight has brought us the very last two episodes to El Cazador, and to which I'm very thankful to the group.

Spoiler:

Rosenberg doesn't have any true aim at all as far as I can see, he's just a guy madly in love with Ellis, and like all guys madly in love with Ellis, he got shot dead. Well, Nadie also died once (or twice?), so I guess the lesson is that you love Ellis, you die.

oh, and in the end everyone are puppeteered by the Secret Witch Society...

oh well at least they make Ellis killed a guy to revenge for the Professor. At least that's better than Kirika ramming into Altena into the lava pit. But still nothing beats Margaret's "I'm a wicked girl, I'm going to kill you with my malice" line

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guppy

L.A. was just plain nuts, so his wacky behaviour didn't really bother me too much (although as a character he couldn't hold a candle to Noir's Chloe). The character dynamic that really holds the show together is Nadie / Ellis, and that came off reasonably well.

What are you talking about! L.A. is the best character in the show! Too bad he has to go through the worst of everything in the show.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TougeSil80

But in this series, Nadie's gun skills sucks, Ellis can't control her power, Richardo isn't really anything special, Rosenberg just sits in his office. The only character that's somewhat interesting is LA. This is one of the worst Bee Train show (that I have watched so far). I found .hack//Sign more interesting that this.

well, the only moment that Nadie truly shines is when she somehow sticks her head into a vase and trips on her own feet when facing a mob attack

At least Ricardo is great with Nekomimi, and L.A. is great all the time

ani_d · 2008-01-15, 15:23

Okay, I know absolutely nothing about this anime, so can I ask? Is this shoujo-ai?

Ligbi · 2008-01-15, 15:31

Um, a little, more at the end. But on the whole it's a drama action cute show. Good watch!

darkchrno · 2008-02-14, 12:54

can any one tell me which episode included some quote in it like
"a man must be responsible for his nature and action" and a few more quotes..? xD
i know it's around episode 10-15 but dont know the exact episode.
plz and thx

darkchrno · 2008-02-16, 12:35

bump... any help please >.<

EDIT : thx fignae

fignae · 2008-02-16, 12:56

They're from Episode 14, "Maple Leaf".

Maids! Maids! Maids! · 2008-02-17, 14:12

Just some odds and ends.

bluezodiac · 2008-03-30, 23:35

Hi to all!!!
I was just wondering what this thing is shown from El Cazador de la Bruja episode 13?
Up to now, I couldn't figure what the thing shown in the pictures is?
What is that thing called?
Is that somehow related to Ellis' past or what?
Can anyone please explain to me regarding this matter?
Please! I need anyone's interpretation! Thanks!

fignae · 2008-03-31, 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluezodiac

Hi to all!!!
I was just wondering what this thing is shown from El Cazador de la Bruja episode 13?
Up to now, I couldn't figure what the thing shown in the pictures is?
What is that thing called?
Is that somehow related to Ellis' past or what?
Can anyone please explain to me regarding this matter?
Please! I need anyone's interpretation! Thanks!

Were they the bones of dead children? I don't have the eps on hand right now.

bluezodiac · 2008-03-31, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by fignae

Were they the bones of dead children? I don't have the eps on hand right now.

Oh? But I wonder why they appear black?
If they were bones of children then why does it appear black?
I have the same thought with you.
I was thinking at first that they were bones of children used for experiments from that ghost town...
But didn't Nadie mention about an epidemic from that town?
I am totally confused.
I hope anyone could clarify it more.
Thanks for your view anyway!

Fellini 8.5 · 2008-06-10, 17:51

It appears that in this month's Animania (a German fan mag), there's an announcement that El Cazador is licensed in Germany by "Anime-Virtual"

Not sure if the online article actually says that or it's in the dead-tree version, credit for the find and the translation go to members of the BTF forum.

mangalowres · 2008-06-11, 16:03

Ep 20 now, quite nice show.
All chars have more then one side and some deeper releations to the actual plot.

Spoiler for But the ep with the old man and the house:

I hope that I will have some time tomorrow to see the last six eps.

mangalowres · 2008-06-12, 14:11

Wow, happy end =) and a nice one too.

Spoiler for Any last Words?:

Overall 8.5 points for this show, maybe a little more.

Ligbi · 2008-06-25, 19:27

I was bored and made a few animated gif icons from cazzy.

And then I made an edit...

Spoiler for Disturbing as hell.:

Take them away from me. Please.

mangalowres · 2008-06-26, 02:14

Nice =)
I like the first one most.

xris · 2008-08-15, 07:56

While this series has not yet been licensed we have received a C&D from FUNimation Entertainment, we therefore won't be listing fansubs of this series here on AnimeSuki anymore.

Please note that FUNimation are acting on the behalf of the Japanese IP owners, d-rights.

2007-10-21, 19:13	Link #661
Matrim Naysayer?Fanboy?Wiseacre? Join Date: Dec 2005	Actually in my opinion Madlax has a very well contructed plot...if one can buy the notion of the three sacred all-powerful books, that is and get past few annoynig plotholes. I for one immensely enjoyed rewatching it recently. El Cazador doesn't even try much to tell an interesting story and if I start about the plotholes in it I might write until tomorrow. Avenger seemingly ends halfway into the story but it totally wipes the floor with El Cazador atmopshere-wise and in sheer coolness of the characters (at least from what I remember, I haven't watched it in like forever). Bee Train for me has always been much more about atmoshpere, characters and style than plot but a really bad plot tends to get in the away of my enjoyment of the other elements (I am looking at you, .hack\\SIGN! ). Friday Monday and Artena have clear, if rather twisted and insane, goals. Rosenberg doesn't. Big difference, IMHO. But in the end, it's all relative and everyone is perfectly entitled to their opinions. If I sound too grumpy, it's mostly because I had such high hopes for El Cazador, if it was a show I just happened to watch without knowing anything about its creators, I woudl have most likely enjoyed it more. __________________ 'The world we live in is always in darkness.' 'Yes, and that is why we seek light.'

2008-02-16, 12:35	Link #669
darkchrno Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006	bump... any help please >.< EDIT : thx fignae Last edited by darkchrno; 2008-02-25 at 11:55.

2008-03-30, 23:35	Link #672
bluezodiac Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008	What's this? (From El Cazador Ep13) Hi to all!!! I was just wondering what this thing is shown from El Cazador de la Bruja episode 13? Up to now, I couldn't figure what the thing shown in the pictures is? What is that thing called? Is that somehow related to Ellis' past or what? Can anyone please explain to me regarding this matter? Please! I need anyone's interpretation! Thanks! Last edited by bluezodiac; 2008-03-30 at 23:36. Reason: ...

2008-06-10, 17:51	Link #675
Fellini 8.5 Film Snob Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pultneyville, NY	Licensed in Germany? It appears that in this month's Animania (a German fan mag), there's an announcement that El Cazador is licensed in Germany by "Anime-Virtual" Not sure if the online article actually says that or it's in the dead-tree version, credit for the find and the translation go to members of the BTF forum.

2008-06-11, 16:03	Link #676
mangalowres AS Mods Sandbag Join Date: Jan 2008	Ep 20 now, quite nice show. All chars have more then one side and some deeper releations to the actual plot. Spoiler for But the ep with the old man and the house: Was he only there to show Ellis where she belongs to or what? I hope that I will have some time tomorrow to see the last six eps.

2007-10-22, 00:38	Link #663
~~Taigyth~~ Disabled By Request Join Date: Sep 2007	I personally loved both Madlax and Noir for different reasons. Madlax was cool in a very surreal way and Noir was awesome because of its copious gunplay. However, I liked ElCaza better than both of them. The main difference between El Cazador and its two predecessors is that it focuses on the characters and not the plot and I think many people weren't expecting that. The strong character development made Ellis and Nadie amazing characters to the point where I didn't even care about the plot anymore as long as they were on screen. The real strengths in this series don't lie with the action but with its unique quirks and flaws. This show may have aggravated some but I loved it. Kouichi Mashimo himself stated that the show was "a road movie in anime clothing". The series remains memorable to me because of its relaxed atmosphere. This is not to say that I wouldn't mind them creating a sequel where those who were expecting more action would be satisfied. Perhaps it could even focus on Nadie's past. Nevertheless, I'd say that ElCaza is easily one of my favorite shows. Some may disagree but hey, opinions make the anime industry go 'round.

2007-10-25, 12:39	Link #664
TougeSil80 I have enough, I'm gone. Join Date: Dec 2005	I have to agree with Matrim on this. Madlax and Noir are miles better than El Cazador. To me, Noir's story was the best, the "journey to the past" theme is freaking cool. Madlax's story is also pretty good, but yea, I also think it's a bit too unbelievable. Both shows' main character has some kind of connection to each other, which El Cazador lacks, and while Noir and Madlax have some filler eps, the entire El Cazador series feels like filler. It's seems like they just drove around in their Mustang for the entire series and yet went nowhere. Also, in both Noir and Madlax the main characters and villains kick ass. I still remember that Chloe vs Kirika fight. But in this series, Nadie's gun skills sucks, Ellis can't control her power, Richardo isn't really anything special, Rosenberg just sits in his office. The only character that's somewhat interesting is LA. This is one of the worst Bee Train show (that I have watched so far). I found .hack//Sign more interesting that this.

2008-01-15, 15:23	Link #666
ani_d Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 38	Okay, I know absolutely nothing about this anime, so can I ask? Is this shoujo-ai?

2008-01-15, 15:31	Link #667
Ligbi Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007	Um, a little, more at the end. But on the whole it's a drama action cute show. Good watch!

2008-02-14, 12:54	Link #668
darkchrno Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006	can any one tell me which episode included some quote in it like "a man must be responsible for his nature and action" and a few more quotes..? xD i know it's around episode 10-15 but dont know the exact episode. plz and thx

2008-02-16, 12:56	Link #670
fignae floofer. floof. Join Date: Mar 2006	They're from Episode 14, "Maple Leaf".

2008-02-17, 14:12	Link #671
Maids! Maids! Maids! Tsuruya Cultist Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Francisco, CA	Just some odds and ends.

2008-06-12, 14:11	Link #677
mangalowres AS Mods Sandbag Join Date: Jan 2008	Wow, happy end =) and a nice one too. Spoiler for Any last Words?: Those two gay bounty hunters, seeing them in that state was pretty funny But in the end it wasen't so clear "who set what up". Did Rosenberg really started all this or did the witches started everything to revive themselfs.... or since when did they plot that ending... But it doesen't matter at all, all good characters got what they needed and it felt good to see that and Overall 8.5 points for this show, maybe a little more.

2008-06-25, 19:27	Link #678
Ligbi Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007	I was bored and made a few animated gif icons from cazzy. And then I made an edit... Spoiler for Disturbing as hell.: Remeber how Haruhi yells 'Moe Moe!' as she gropes Mikuru? Take them away from me. Please.

2008-06-26, 02:14	Link #679
mangalowres AS Mods Sandbag Join Date: Jan 2008	Nice =) I like the first one most.

2008-08-15, 07:56	Link #680
xris Just call me Ojisan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: U.K. Hampshire	While this series has not yet been licensed we have received a C&D from FUNimation Entertainment, we therefore won't be listing fansubs of this series here on AnimeSuki anymore. Please note that FUNimation are acting on the behalf of the Japanese IP owners, d-rights.