2011-04-15, 13:37 | Link #2021 |
May Haru-ki Be With You
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@hyperborealis
Are people stillreferring to Homu's dedication to Madoka an obsession? Seriously! After four time-lines of hell surely those 'obsessive' feelings of T1 have matured(Homu has matured). What her feelings are now for Madoka are no longer a simple obsession! Someone sure is seriously against HomuMado! And while it's not very clear, there is some differences in the way Madoka treated Homu compared to the others. The CT is tricky because Homu put on a cold front towards Madoka and that is why their relationship is all kinds of messed up! I have hope though. |
2011-04-15, 19:47 | Link #2022 | |||||||
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All I am saying is that as of yet, nothing in the way that Madoka has treated Homura in any of the timelines suggests that Homura is to her anything other than another good friend among others. That can certainly change: as Triple R suggests, perhaps when Madoka learns of Homura's great sacrifices on her behalf she will then think of Homura in a new, distinctive way. But a speculation about the conclusion that requires this more elevated relationship already or subconsciously or retrospectively to exist is simply mistaken. Quote:
I wonder why people imagine "a particularly deep friendship" between Madoka and Homura? It must have to do with Homura, I think: she is a heroic figure of tragic love, always trying and failing to protect the person she loves, and yet keeping on with her efforts regardless. I think we want to reward that extraordinary devotion, by envisaging Madoka in a way that she can or will reciprocate Homura's grand passion. If that is so, all I can say is that this demand from the audience has nothing to do with Madoka herself by definition. Quote:
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However, I don't believe such a strong relationship exists, or at least, not one beyond the level of ordinary friendship. It might exist on Homura's side, since she has suffered extraordinarily across the timelines for Madoka's sake. It does not exist however on Madoka's side. That makes the miracle you anticipate either less likely, or that much more miraculous. I agree with Triple R--your description of Madoka looking at herself through Homura is beautiful and striking. I would love to see this animated. Quote:
Homura represents a cautionary tale, to teach us that growing up and gaining self-knowledge are not necessarily positive and fortunate experiences. I do not believe Homura possesses an elevated sense of self-worth. Much more a core element for her is her iron will. |
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2011-04-15, 20:21 | Link #2023 | ||
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So, who is the one who has been constantly "watching over" girls (including ones Madoka might not know) while "feeling" nothing about it, as Madoka claims? Yes, the answer is most likely the obvious one: QB. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not. Quote:
Madoka basically begs for Homura to go back in time and save her, with tears all over her face. Homura frantically promise she'll do it no matter what, also crying rivers. Do you really think it would be farfeched that all those feelings (and feelings are MAGIC) at that moment could trigger a real miracle? And we're talking Madoka here, who's said to have lots of potential, and also Homura, whose wish was strong enough to bend the laws of the universe. So yeah, their feelings (magic) which were running wild at the moment, could quite possible create a miracle IMO. At any rate, since the articles available hint to it, I suppose the possibility exists.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-04-16 at 15:33. |
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2011-04-15, 20:51 | Link #2024 | |
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Homura has definitely become colder each time, and Madoka is the key figure in the group, but I don't believe that Homura has any less "love" for the other three girls, it's just that Madoka is figuratively and literally the most important person to her and her mission right now. Remember that she tried to warn all of them about Kyubey. She was part of the fight to bring back Sayaka the first time. She grieved for each of them, and even in the current time when she has acted the coldest she has tried to reach out and save every one of them. She tried to help Mami, she tried to help Sayaka, she tried to work with Kyoko, she's trying to save Madoka. It may seem that Homura has no one but Madoka in her heart, but I don't think that is the case at all.
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2011-04-15, 21:36 | Link #2025 | |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
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Is not really....deep passionate love or something that drives Homura. More like steel loyalty. You know, the kind you share with a close friend and you know something horrible is going to happen to him and so you do everything in your power to try and avert it.
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2011-04-16, 00:10 | Link #2026 | ||||
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The English translation doesn't seem to fit QB. Madoka assumes the listener has a capacity for feeling and for understanding others' pain--"Did you not feel anything watching over them all that time? Did you not try to understand how much pain everyone was in?"--but we know and Madoka knows QB is incapable of any such emotional sympathy. More than that, QB is an antagonist, an enemy, someone who has tricked the girls: would Madoka ever think of him as even considering the girls' welfare? I defer to your superior understanding of Japanese. All the same, something doesn't make sense here. Quote:
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It's hard to reconcile all this with that brutal conversation Homura has with Sayaka in episode eight. As when Homura says, "You're sharp. / In fact, you're exactly correct. / I don't want to help you. / I simply don't want Madoka to have to watch you fall." Then she threatens to kill Sayaka: "I'll kill you myself right now, Sayaka Miki." At times Homura does seem to act on behalf of all of the girls, as you say, and at others it seems she does so only for Madoka's sake. I hesitate to say it, but the anime's characterization of Homura does not seem consistent. Quote:
Homura has become the creature of her own wish. The feelings she has are those necessary so that she can fulfill the wish. Think of her as an incarnation of a wish, or a machine crafted to realize a particular task, rather than as a person. She is no longer human, as she puts it. All she is is the loyalty, the amazing will, the dedication necessary to accomplish her wish. |
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2011-04-16, 01:33 | Link #2027 | |
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I'm not saying that Homura values the other girls like she values Madoka. It's pretty clear that Madoka is on a pedestal compared to them (and let's be honest, even in real life we value our friends in different ways). It's easy to write her interventions off as simply being only for Madoka's sake, but like I said I don't think that is entirely true. It would make Homura into a truly heartless person, no better than Kyubey. She's definitely closed her heart....but I don't think she's lost her humanity yet.
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2011-04-16, 07:49 | Link #2028 |
Guess what time it is?
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I still feel like Homura's closed her heart to the other girls simply as a matter of survival. Losing Madoka over and over and over again has been devastating enough. I don't think she can psychologically afford to remain attached to anyone else. In episode 4, she says (paraphrasing) that a magical girl survives by fighting for her wish, and abandoning everything else. If she just didn't care about them, she probably wouldn't need to close herself off to them. That's just how I read her, anyway.
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2011-04-16, 10:14 | Link #2029 |
Segmentation fault
Join Date: Mar 2011
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i don't know if someone pointed this one out yet but i was wondering why homura is the only one madoka remembers in her dream? does this has something to do with her wish in tl4? homu is quite far. we did not hear her screaming about her warnings. that could symbolize their distance.
but in ep1, upon homu's class introduction, mado immediately recognizes homu and makes a connection regarding her dream a night before. right? how about kyubey? mado was talking with him in her dream, almost at arm's length. yet she doesn't recognize him when she met him asking for help. "This guy was in my dream too!" not? somethings amiss here. another mysterious hint why homu is subconsciously special inside madoka. |
2011-04-16, 10:25 | Link #2030 | |
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Go read the previous post about this. You'll probably find them interesting.
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2011-04-16, 10:30 | Link #2031 | |
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2011-04-16, 11:47 | Link #2032 | ||
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
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2011-04-16, 12:11 | Link #2034 | |
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Reviewing the scene I see what you mean--Sayaka appears genuinely shocked by Homura's threat. Perhaps as you say Sayaka momentarily considers the real consequences of the despairing words she has just spoken, about how "there'd be no need for me anymore. / That's fine, then." Even so, perhaps Homura's tactic just brings home to Sayaka the general brutality of the other MGs, thereby adding to the despair she already feels. When Sayaka staggers off, she appears to be worse off than at the start of their conversation. I agree with you that Homura does retain her humanity, despite her own words disavowing it. Sayaka is wrong when she tells Homura "you look like you've given up on everything." Homura's devotion to Madoka is also her lifeline to her own best nature, and marks an essential difference between herself and Sayaka. I'm still not sure how much Homura cares for the others, though. Kyoko's assessment of Homura in episode nine--"Just protect the one thing you really want to protect, until the very end"--seems to me the only sure truth we know about her. |
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2011-04-16, 13:21 | Link #2035 | ||||
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
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I think we're differing on our opinions of specific scenes which is fine, since we're in agreement in our overall view of Homura's character.
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2011-04-16, 13:31 | Link #2036 | |
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What Homura feels inside is pretty inaccessible, because she keeps it under tight control most of the time. The most obvious breech is the explosion before Madoka. But there's that gentle, melancholic "Kyouko," as she leaves her to handle witch Sayaka. There's the frustrated, resentful look she gives Sayaka, who has just turned into a magical girl. Notice, too, that even though she hates the system and opposes Kyubey, she doesn't make it personal. She even defends Kyubey to Madoka as not being cruel, but merely having a different morality. The enemy is the system. Homura convinces herself that once you become a magical girl, you stop to matter. That goes even for Madoka; once Madoka contracts the only recourse Homura has is to re-wind time. I'm pretty convinced Homura would have killed Sayaka, in the same way that she would, a second later, have blown up herself and Kyouko. Homura does not bluff. "I make my decision, you make yours." That's the gist of it, to me. |
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2011-04-16, 22:56 | Link #2037 | ||
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
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2011-04-17, 00:03 | Link #2040 | |
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These two instancea are clearly different to me.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-04-17 at 10:10. |
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madoka magica |
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