Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei - generic discussion thread (NO SPOILERS)

[Sheba]

I am liking the bit at the end when things are getting interesting. But it's hard for me to get into the characters.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Arya

Mmm, or she was just saying that that shu (?) was not his BF as Tatsuya was willingly implying. Honestly I didn't get that part very well.

I think this Shuu is her boyfriend, otherwise she wouldn't have mentioned the name as I don't think that Tatsuya's met him before. Think Mari was a little bit embarrassed that Tatsuya teased her like that and tried to defend Shuu. Well, I assume it can be said now that Mahouka isn't a typical harem show like some thought after the first episode.

[Anh_Minh]

You don't need every single girl to have a harem.

[bigdeath]

To be honest, I didn't find the pacing of this episode to be slow at all. Just because theres no fights doesn't mean the episode is slow. We got a lot of information mixed in with some nice humor to keep things interesting. I enjoyed this episode.

garbage seems to have proved that Tatsuya = Taurus Silver, seriously, I think more people in the school should realize this.

It was funny showing how easily Tatsuya can make the ladies blush. Poor Miyuki is going to have a nervous breakdown with how jealous she gets. I agree with Kaoru Chujo that this sibling relationship is much deeper than anything sexual. They are obviously very close and the ending I think dialogue hints as to why. An aunt is mentioned which makes me think Tatsuya and Miyuki might be a bit estranged with the rest of their family which seems to be one of the big named magic families. Interesting. Could be that Tatsuya and Miyuki have come to rely on each other out of necessity. I don't hear any mention of their parents so I assume these two have been living together on their own for a while now.

Miyuki turned out to be correct about Mibu having an ulterior motive for talking to Tatsuya. Miyuki reaction to Mibu might not have been purely jealous (though she sure does get jealous easily). Tatsuya has got to watch out if he ever decides to get a girlfriend!

Thank you, The Green One, for the insight on what the whole Psycholigist scene was about. They definitely could have written that better.

Originally Posted by SigUp

I think this Shuu is her boyfriend, otherwise she wouldn't have mentioned the name as I don't think that Tatsuya's met him before. Think Mari was a little bit embarrassed that Tatsuya teased her like that and tried to defend Shuu. Well, I assume it can be said now that Mahouka isn't a typical harem show like some thought after the first episode.

I don't think Tatsuya even knew Mari had a boyfriend. He found out by making her defend her boyfriend. If she didn't have a boyfriend then Tatsuya would have just learned that shes available in a stealthy kind of way. Mari quickly figured out what he had done and got flustered.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

You don't need every single girl to have a harem.

We can't even prove any girl actually likes him romantically right now.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

You don't need every single girl to have a harem.

I'm well aware of that. However, Mari's got plenty of screen time with Tatsuya and nothing came out of if. Mayumi also doesn't seem to be really interested in him in a romantic sense. Neither look does Mizuki have. The only one aside from Miyuki that seems to be leaning in this direction is Erika.

Originally Posted by bigdeath

An aunt is mentioned which makes me think Tatsuya and Miyuki might be a bit estranged with the rest of their family which seems to be one of the big named magic families. Interesting. Could be that Tatsuya and Miyuki have come to rely on each other out of necessity. I don't hear any mention of their parents so I assume these two have been living together on their own for a while now.

In the first episode their dad was mentioned. I think they are estranged from the rest of the family, especially seeing Miyuki's reaction at the end of the current episode. But I also think that this estrangement perhaps is due to the treatment of Tatsuya, rather than of them both. Their father called Miyuku on the day of the school entrance ceremony, but not Tatsuya.

[bigdeath]

Oh yeah, that phone call. I forgot about that. The little details in this show are important.

[Mentar]

Just because some idiots call the show a "harem" it doesn't mean that it is. Mahouka is no harem. Most of the girls are affiliated with others.

[Valky]

Although the actions were miniscule, I like episode 4 the most, so far. The ending was so sweet I almost got diabetes.

[larethian]

Originally Posted by bigdeath

To be honest, I didn't find the pacing of this episode to be slow at all. Just because theres no fights doesn't mean the episode is slow. We got a lot of information mixed in with some nice humor to keep things interesting. I enjoyed this episode.

garbage seems to have proved that Tatsuya = Taurus Silver, seriously, I think more people in the school should realize this.

It was funny showing how easily Tatsuya can make the ladies blush. Poor Miyuki is going to have a nervous breakdown with how jealous she gets. I agree with Kaoru Chujo that this sibling relationship is much deeper than anything sexual. They are obviously very close and the ending I think dialogue hints as to why. An aunt is mentioned which makes me think Tatsuya and Miyuki might be a bit estranged with the rest of their family which seems to be one of the big named magic families. Interesting. Could be that Tatsuya and Miyuki have come to rely on each other out of necessity. I don't hear any mention of their parents so I assume these two have been living together on their own for a while now.

Miyuki turned out to be correct about Mibu having an ulterior motive for talking to Tatsuya. Miyuki reaction to Mibu might not have been purely jealous (though she sure does get jealous easily). Tatsuya has got to watch out if he ever decides to get a girlfriend!

Thank you, The Green One, for the insight on what the whole Psycholigist scene was about. They definitely could have written that better.



I don't think Tatsuya even knew Mari had a boyfriend. He found out by making her defend her boyfriend. If she didn't have a boyfriend then Tatsuya would have just learned that shes available in a stealthy kind of way. Mari quickly figured out what he had done and got flustered.

It can be inferred from episode 2 that Tatsuya might have suspected it based on his observation that Mari was the only one who brought her own boxed lunch and yet was not very adept at cooking. He just confirmed his suspcion by tripping her with words, aside from making a counter to her remark

Yes the little details in this show are important.

EDIT: CR's translation on "Course 2 students not having practical skills training" is also misleading. "Instruction" would be more correct than "training".

[Arya]

Originally Posted by SigUp

I think this Shuu is her boyfriend, otherwise she wouldn't have mentioned the name as I don't think that Tatsuya's met him before. Think Mari was a little bit embarrassed that Tatsuya teased her like that and tried to defend Shuu. Well, I assume it can be said now that Mahouka isn't a typical harem show like some thought after the first episode.

Well, honestly that's how I saw it too, I was just pretending that existed a different explanation It's just that I was a bit saddened by the fact that the most interesting girl (for me) had a BF already, thing that is very unusual in any genre, not just harem.
What I didn't get was what Tatsuya was supposed to reply to Mari's response. I mean, was he supposed to reply something in particular?

About the harem thing I was half joking with my previous post, despite I'm still getting those vibes, the point now is to discern who has ulterior motives and who not. The kendo girl seems to be forced to use her appeal to lure Tatsuya in their faction, but she seemed interested in him despite that. In any case I don't really care much so far. I'm just fine with Miyuki since as already said their bonds feel quite deep.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by Arya

What I didn't get was what Tatsuya was supposed to reply to Mari's response. I mean, was he supposed to reply something in particular?

I also didn't quite understand what she was expecting. Perhaps some kind of comment like he was joking or so? Don't know, but then again, Tatsuya also seemed to wonder what he was supposed to say.

I'm just fine with Miyuki since as already said their bonds feel quite deep.

Yeah, as a couple of people already mentioned, their bond seems to be based on some deep-lying foundation. It doesn't look like some random brocon/ siscon stuff, so I also think a simplifying description as "incest" (a word I personally prefer to avoid in those contexts, referring to it rather as "siblings' romance") doesn't do it justice. I think it may be possible that they were emotionally scarred in their past, that perhaps their family is emotionally distant, leaving them basically with only themselves. Another factor of course is surely what is alluded to in the OP with the flashback frame showing Miyuki laying there in her blood with Tatsuya holding her hand, possibly saving her.

[Triple_R]

I very much like the world-building and political drama/intrigue building up in Episode 4.

I also like how Tatsuya's political/philosophical observations are fairly complex and nuanced, not just simplistically "left" or simplistically "right".

Tatsuya might also be the most Bruce Wayne-esque anime character I've ever seen. Not just Batman, but Bruce Wayne as a whole. His soberness, his shrewdness, his valuing/managing of key allies and friends even while he maintains strong independence, his research, his combat skills, his improvisations, the way he evaluates other people, his ability to be charming and disarming in a pragmatic way... It's all very Bruce Wayne.

I'm starting to see why Mahouka is so highly thought of and popular. A lot of the dialogue really is nicely sophisticated, and the characters/plot/visuals/BGM all come together with the enticing smoothness of a good James Bond movie.


Mahouka definitely has a lot of cases of "anime being anime", but I would caution fellow viewers against getting distracted by them. Much of the brocon/siscon moments and girls blushing over Tatsuya is just added spice to a likely great action-mystery story - It's anime spice sprinkled over a story that I think almost any serious Batman or James Bond fan could easily appreciate.

[Faerie]

^ I agree with this, to an extent. I too am starting to see where some of the high regard comes from in relation to the hints we got as to the world and underlying plot. I too am interested in the world and wider issues presented. They are interesting and appear to be complex.

The problem is, I completely fail to see the appeal of the cast. What has been described as "sweet and compelling romance" and "beautiful, perfect characters" to me is painful cheese and horrid character conception, at least so far. Not sure how far that is attributable to the anime leaving stuff out. To an extent it probably is, so I'm still hoping it'll get better.
There is nothing compelling about how artificial and forced these characters are. With Tatsuya, I have an idea why that is and it may be plausible. I'm still neutral on that front, because he is, in theory at least, interesting enough.
With the others.. Less so. There's no excuse to wax lyrical about how perfect your character is and remind people ad nauseam as to all of their perfect features. It's bad writing. It's fanfic-y. It's not done better in the novel vs the anime at least in the corresponding extracts I've seen. I guess writing proper characters is one of the very noticeable weaknesses of LN authors though, and here too, it's pretty obvious. Same goes for the obligatory fanservice. It doesn't matter how cheap or awkward it is, just cram it right in there (sure, there may have been something in the way of an "explanation" left out this time round)
So I can't chalk that up to anime being anime so much as a LN being what it is. In this regard, I find this work to be characteristically juvenile and I can see that putting off a lot of people who would be interested in the actual plot.

But if you sit down and chisel away the cardboard characterisation, the wooden interaction, the pointless pandering, you might find a story that's actually pretty good. Possibly even very good. I just wish some editor had sat down and done exactly that, you might have ended up with a product where you don't need to constantly tell viewers to "hold on, it gets better" . I do believe people when they say that it will, but paying for a competent editor to improve your product never hurt anyone.

[rladls716]

Bruce Wayne
Someone said it, yes someone had to say it, so I was not the only one who thought of that.
Except, Tatsuya uses guns.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

The problem is, I completely fail to see the appeal of the cast.

I get your issues with Miyuki. She doesn't bother me a lot personally, but I can definitely see how she could be annoying to a lot of viewers (I never heard "Onee-Sama" in Mari-Mite or Railgun as much as I'm hearing "Onii-Sama" in this show, and that's saying something ) There are very subjective things about Miyuki that I like (her character design, her voice) that makes up for her downsides for me, but that's just me of course.

And while I get your take on the cast as a whole, I do feel compelled to defend two specific characters - Erika and Mari. They both seem like good, reasonably strong female characters to me, at least so far. Neither feels particularly forced to me, either in their personalities or their dialogue. I like both of them.

I think Erika has a nice amount of spunk and fire. She's a good contrast to Miyuki.

As for Mari, I think her personality suits her role well, and that adds a lot of believability to this show. She makes a good Commissioner Gordon to Tatsuya's Bruce Wayne.

With the others.. Less so. There's no excuse to wax lyrical about how perfect your character is and remind people ad nauseam as to all of their perfect features. It's bad writing. It's fanfic-y.

I agree that it is laid on a little bit thick.

Here's how I like to look at it, based on the impression I get (it's a bit of a guess, so I could be wrong, but here goes) - Miyuki had few friends or reliable relatives before coming to this school. All she had, really, was her brother. He's become her own personal hero, a source of comfort and confidence in a somewhat lonely, isolated life. He's extremely dear and important to her for these reasons.

Part of the reason I make this guess is that Tatsuya is pleased over his sister making two new friends. That might be just an off-hand thing, but it could also be a strong hint to what Miyuki's life was like prior to this school.

So, anyway, I think this is why Miyuki goes on and on and on about her brother. It doesn't necessarily make it any less exasperating from a viewer perspective, but I think it can justify her character a bit.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by wontaek

While what you said are all valid, I do like to chip in couple of thoughts.

In college, while they do rightfully honor 4.3 GPA students, most of the times you can't tell who is 4.3 and who is 3.0 just by looking at their uniform. This lets 4.3 easily blend in with 3.0 if he/she chooses. Also honoring someone after knowing 4.3 gpa is different from automatically honoring someone because of a mark on the uniform of about half the students. True recognition of individual achievement and effort can be made by really learning about those particular achievements and the personal history, not by some visible and easily felt class structure that forces people to recognize someone's superiority without knowing the details to the superiority. This is why some appearance of equal treatment and some systematic gestures to reduce part of the inequality among people helps in making the overall society strong and letting ALL people strive to do better.

Therefore , I think the main character went slightly too far by ignoring that some aspects of inequality shown in the series might be hurting the society as whole while talking negatively about some people desiring "more equality". After all, you need the society to be reasonably stable for it to be strong, and since people have emotions and egos, no matter how irrational it might be, it is worth pondering whether anything might be contributing to discontent of some people and whether it would really hurt to remove or reduce some of these surface reasons for the discontent.

First, I would like to clarify that most of the named characters we've met do not support the class segregation thing. Mari for one was about to bite Hattoris head off for mentioning it in front of her (since part of her job is to tamp down on things like that). Mayumi and the others are the same. Tats, for one, doesn't really care. Then again, at this point in the anime all he seems to care about is Miyuki

And for clarification, magic society is an extreme meritocracy. It makes no pretense at equality because it can't afford to. The act of raising magicians is equivalent to increasing the countries power as a whole. So in exchange for the massive benefits they receive, magicians have to deal with higher expectations and requirements.

The point Tats was trying to make is not that they are wrong for trying to take down discrimination, but that discrimination didn't exist in the first place. Looking at it realistically, there isn't any way to remove the "inequality" in the first place.

Magicians received higher salaries because they were doing jobs only magicians could do that warranted higher compensation. Even if magic was taken of the field as a hiring requirement, it would only result in those jobs (and their benefits in society) disappearing. It wouldn't change the income of normal people. It'd be like saying "People with *enter skill set here* receive higher compensation. That's discrimination. So remove any hiring criteria that involves *enter skill set here*." Even if that skill set is expressedly necessary for the job in question.

It's the same for Egalite. There isn't any real discrimination beyond the uniforms and the students attitudes. While changing the uniforms might help, as long as there is a shortage of teachers there will still be two classes. And the school has policy against the attitude that the students are displaying. So there really isn't anything for them to change to make it better, unless they are suggesting throwing out the lower half of the students.

Basically, Tats is scolding them not for upholding ideals of equality, but for using "equality" as an excuse to complain that others are better than them at magic.

[millie10468]

Originally Posted by XFire

First, I would like to clarify that most of the named characters we've met do not support the class segregation thing. Mari for one was about to bite Hattoris head off for mentioning it in front of her (since part of her job is to tamp down on things like that). Mayumi and the others are the same. Tats, for one, doesn't really care. Then again, at this point in the anime all he seems to care about is Miyuki

And for clarification, magic society is an extreme meritocracy. It makes no pretense at equality because it can't afford to. The act of raising magicians is equivalent to increasing the countries power as a whole. So in exchange for the massive benefits they receive, magicians have to deal with higher expectations and requirements.

The point Tats was trying to make is not that they are wrong for trying to take down discrimination, but that discrimination didn't exist in the first place. Looking at it realistically, there isn't any way to remove the "inequality" in the first place.

Magicians received higher salaries because they were doing jobs only magicians could do that warranted higher compensation. Even if magic was taken of the field as a hiring requirement, it would only result in those jobs (and their benefits in society) disappearing. It wouldn't change the income of normal people. It'd be like saying "People with *enter skill set here* receive higher compensation. That's discrimination. So remove any hiring criteria that involves *enter skill set here*." Even if that skill set is expressedly necessary for the job in question.

It's the same for Egalite. There isn't any real discrimination beyond the uniforms and the students attitudes. While changing the uniforms might help, as long as there is a shortage of teachers there will still be two classes. And the school has policy against the attitude that the students are displaying. So there really isn't anything for them to change to make it better, unless they are suggesting throwing out the lower half of the students.

Basically, Tats is scolding them not for upholding ideals of equality, but for using "equality" as an excuse to complain that others are better than them at magic.

Plus, it's a magic high school whose purpose is to grow more magicians. It seems obvious that they would focus on those with higher output of magic than those without. Not saying it's right in how it treats its students who are less adept at magic. But it would make sense, to the school, to value students who are good at magic over students who are passable at best at magic and good at non-magic stuff.

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by XFire

You misunderstood him.

Blanche claims that their is discrimination in favor of magicians because Magicians have a higher average salary. They want to eliminate this discrepancy.

Egalite wants their to be equality among magic students by removing magic ability as a point of evaluation.

Both of these are wonderful things on the surface. They also completely ignore reality.


Also, so supplementary info below

Spoiler for info:

There is no "Magical Oligarchy" as magicians are not allowed to hold political positions. This is officially so they can focus on their own matters but also to keep exactly what you described from happening.

Also, Magicians are treated particularly better or worse than everyone else. The Ten Master Clans are more or less equivalent to politicians in terms of power, but that's due to their value as assets to the country, not because they are "better".

Thanks for the info. I have not read the LN's so I was unaware of that.

But if that is the case why does the school have so much institutionalized classism? The different uniforms , not letting weeds be on the student council ,the staff pick for the discipline committee being a raging tool ,and all the second hand treatment must have a reason because all it does in practice is hurt the learning process. I had assumed that it was a reflection of the outside world but if it is not then I am at a loss.


Also the school structure does not make any sense. If you have 900 students you plan to teach one thing and 900 you do not there is no reason to have them at the same school. Make 6 schools with 300 students each. 3 of them have teachers 3 of them do not. That takes care of all the class problems. And you can still call up replacements as needed since they are training themselves under either system.

And I still do not understand the lack of teachers. Unless they only started the schools a couple of years ago. Otherwise why not take the top 10 weeds at each school have them sign on to be teachers in trade for training and move heaven and earth to make sure they get everything they need. Then in some 7 years you would have 90 more teachers which would let you train more of the weeds which would let you get even more teachers.

[Meltyred]

Originally Posted by Magewolf

Thanks for the info. I have not read the LN's so I was unaware of that.

But if that is the case why does the school have so much institutionalized classism? The different uniforms , not letting weeds be on the student council ,the staff pick for the discipline committee being a raging tool ,and all the second hand treatment must have a reason because all it does in practice is hurt the learning process. I had assumed that it was a reflection of the outside world but if it is not then I am at a loss.


Also the school structure does not make any sense. If you have 900 students you plan to teach one thing and 900 you do not there is no reason to have them at the same school. Make 6 schools with 300 students each. 3 of them have teachers 3 of them do not. That takes care of all the class problems. And you can still call up replacements as needed since they are training themselves under either system.

And I still do not understand the lack of teachers. Unless they only started the schools a couple of years ago. Otherwise why not take the top 10 weeds at each school have them sign on to be teachers in trade for training and move heaven and earth to make sure they get everything they need. Then in some 7 years you would have 90 more teachers which would let you train more of the weeds which would let you get even more teachers.

They have lack of Magic Teachers because not many Magicians move on to become Teachers, A LOT of them being part of the Military instead or related to it in some form or another.
That or being Magic Engineers/ Researches which is why there are very few Teachers who can use Magic as well as be able to supervise them sufficiently, which is why the School is basically run by it's own Student Council/Club leader/Disciplinary Committee