Epitaph: Speculations and Theories [Episode 1-4]

[Dlanor A. Knox]

Hmmm... the chapel isn't that old when you look at it, so maybe Kinzo did order them to make it?
LOL the mystery of the chapel

[ameskitty]

Originally Posted by TheWatcher

Also where is every1 getting EP5 i can't find it.

Wrong topic, but I'd just advise getting EP6. It comes with EP5, the compatible patch is supposed to come very soon (last official word said probably this weekend), and I think by now it should be readily in stock at most places.

[Shin Kyo]

If I were you people I would stick to the "Lord U" theory. And stop beating your heads trying to come up with new ones. Anyway I would like to explain as to why it works so well.
The river of sweetfish, running through my nostalgic hometown.
Oh, those who aim for the Golden Land, descend this and search for the key.

When you go down the river, there shall be a village before long.
In that village, search for the shore the two people speak of.
There sleeps the key to the Golden Land.

For those who gain the key, you shall obey the following and set off for the Golden Land.

With that part of the Epitaph in mind.. you dont exactly need to think of a river think of a map more that is connecting the dots almost simular to a family tree.. here is a visual.
http://pds16.egloos.com/pds/200912/2...d85d87bfa1.jpg
Actually Danshui really truthfully has a map simular to that that also leads to Qilian.
As you all know you want to open a door that has a "Quadrillion" to one chance of opening?
We found our 6 letter word to offer as a sacrifice to our 11 letter word. So lets remove Q-i-l-i-a-n away from "Quadrillion" The you get u-dr-l-o. This is how you get "Lord U"
Need any more evidence?
On the second night, the remaining ones shall tear apart the two people close together.
Looking at it broken up u-dr-l-i has 2 letters that stuck together so lets tear it apart and we got d--r why is d and r broken up? We Can always toss in double o's wait a minute isnt that a Siesta name? Double O? Door!! We got the word name for Door.
On the third night, the remaining ones shall praise my highly honorable name.
At this point you dont need to know japanese language however you hopefully know
a little bit of japanese history. Didn't you notice that the servants always call there master
-sama? Putting -sama after a persons name means very honorable but since it says "highly"
honorable you gotta think of it as a King or Queen back in old japan there was wars between "Lords" -sama also means Lord. Anyway to put out even more evidence lets do
the flip the chessboard thinking with the word door. If you flip the word door around you get the word "rood" which is another word meaning "Lord". Since the japanese always call thier lords by there last name first then ending it with sama it would be Ushiromiya-sama "Lord U".
On the fourth night, gouge the head and kill.
On the fifth night, gouge the chest and kill.
On the sixth night, gouge the abdomen and kill.
On the seventh night, gouge the knee and kill.
On the eighth night, gouge the foot and kill.
That part sounds pretty scary but it really isnt if you think of it as eliminate 5 of the 6 Buildings on Rokkenjima.
Just like alot of people suspects I also believe the hidden gold is close to the Chapel.
Also you can also think of Lord U as "Up,Down,Left,Right,O" O being a button or the center of the joystick.
http://pds17.egloos.com/pds/200912/2...dd89c4c468.jpg
Anyway that idea is most likely right I mean in VN 5 Furudo Erika was indeed
"playing with some mech device" Before they found the hidden place that lead to the Gold ^^.

I'm glad that Witch Hunt did some research on "El Dorado" But they were pretty far off. Its way off and they sorta didn't research properly.
I mean its interesting there really is a Golden Land on this earth however Qilian is where its at.
http://www.iugg.org/members/national...M%20QILIAN.htm
If you dont want to read its about the North Qilian Mountains. Its both a volcano and a deposit mine with cooper/iron/gold.

[matteas]

I think the Qilian theory is the most plausible atm. Particularly the North Qilian Mountains, this is the first time I've heard about it. It's probably the most important point in favor of Qilian.

[Dlanor A. Knox]

the "Lord U" theorie is good indeed.
Somehow the Chapel keeps bothering me.... >.<

[Jan-Poo]

The qilian theory is indeed very interesting and it's the one that makes most sense right now, however there are still a few things that I don't think are correct in the explanation process.

The most obvious one is the fact that the danshui line has been built in 1988 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danshui_Line_(TRTS)

and this site tells us that the original TRA line didn't include Qilian

http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache...&hl=en&ct=clnk

So it's really not possible that the "river" refers to it.


The other thing that really makes no sense is the door part. Why do people on Rokkenjima should know about a Siesta that doesn't even appear in EP3? And what's the connection? Why you need to think about her in that instance, and what "door" helps you with?


The main problem is finding a connection with quadrillion. It is possible that Eva simply remembered the chapel and the inscription and she automatically thought she needed to go there since the "sacrifice" is something related to a chapel, but that seems quite far-fetched. If someone never knew about the chapel then he would never find the answer.

[Raiza Sunozaki]

Originally Posted by Shin Kyo

*snip*

Sorry, but I refuse to stop thinking just because you think one theory is better than all others. Personally, I think Jan-Poo's "liquid" theory better than the "Qilian" theory, but regardless, I'm still trying to make my own theory. I doubt Ryuukishi had in mind that everyone trying to solve the Umineko riddles should just jump on the most stable theory out there. I think he wants us all to develop our own theories and compare, and in doing so, find the truth together. So your dismissal of all other theories besides the "Qilian" theory as incompetent is ridiculous, and quite frankly, ticks me off.

We found our 6 letter word to offer as a sacrifice to our 11 letter word. So lets remove Q-i-l-i-a-n away from "Quadrillion" The you get u-dr-l-o. This is how you get "Lord U"
Need any more evidence?

I'll say this, the LORD U is the only part of the "Qilian" theory that sounds sensible to me. But this is only the first twilight, and you're already rearranging the letters? No rearranging is told to be done yet. Besides, your second twilight ruins this.

On the second night, the remaining ones shall tear apart the two people close together.
Looking at it broken up u-dr-l-o has 2 letters that stuck together so lets tear it apart and we got d--r why is d and r broken up? We Can always toss in double o's wait a minute isnt that a Siesta name? Double O? Door!! We got the word name for Door

This is the weakest part of your theory. While it's reasonable to break up the two characters that are together, where did you get the idea to put in the two o's? You're told to tear apart, not stuff full of circles. Even more so, you're mixing fantasy with the non-fantasy world. On Rokkenjima, the Siestas don't exist. Kinzo didn't know they existed, so how could he write the epitaph to include 00?
But for the sake of your theory, let's ignore this discrepancy for the moment. So now we have the characters U DOOR L O... hmm, seven characters. So how are you going to make it so that "none shall remain" at the ninth twilight, when you only have the chance to kill five?

On the third night, the remaining ones shall praise my highly honorable name.
At this point you dont need to know japanese language however you hopefully know a little bit of japanese history. Didn't you notice that the servants always call there master -sama? Putting -sama after a persons name means very honorable but since it says "highly" honorable you gotta think of it as a King or Queen back in old japan there was wars between "Lords" -sama also means Lord.

the suffix "-sama" is a term of high respect. If servants didn't call their masters "x-sama", it would be considered an insult to the master.

Anyway to put out even more evidence lets do the flip the chessboard thinking with the word door. If you flip the word door around you get the word "rood" which is another word meaning "Lord". Since the japanese always call thier lords by there last name first then ending it with sama it would be Ushiromiya-sama "Lord U".

Why are you flipping the chessboard over with the word "door"? That's Battler's catchphrase, which he sort of stole off of Kyrie. Kinzo may be an avid chess lover, but he's never shown any knowledge of the "chessboard thinking" that Battler and Kyrie are so fond of. Also, "flipping the chessboard" means looking at a situation from your opponents point of view, so you can understand why they did that last move. It doesn't literally mean flip something around. Also, my knowledge of other languages is pretty poor, but I'm pretty sure "rood" is not another word for Lord in English.
Yes, Ushiromiya-sama does translate as Lord Ushiromiya, or LORD U. But have you forgotten about those two O's you threw in arbitrarily earlier? Where'd they go? Did you just throw them away arbitrarily as well? Or, if your doing it so it's ROOD U, where'd the L O go? Keep track of all your letters, you would want to lose them.

On the fourth night, gouge the head and kill.
On the fifth night, gouge the chest and kill.
On the sixth night, gouge the abdomen and kill.
On the seventh night, gouge the knee and kill.
On the eighth night, gouge the foot and kill.
That part sounds pretty scary but it really isnt if you think of it as eliminate 5 of the 6 Buildings on Rokkenjima.

Six buildings? I count five, at best. Two mansions, one guesthouse, one chapel, and a garden shed, if you can even count that. Even more so, the existence of the second mansion is supposed to be a secret. The siblings have only heard rumours of it's existence. So how is anybody who reads the epitaph going to have the ability to solve it, if they don't know about the existence of the Kuwadorian? Because that's how Kinzo designed the epitaph, so that anyone with the intelligence to solve it could.

Just like alot of people suspects I also believe the hidden gold is close to the Chapel.
Also you can also think of Lord U as "Up,Down,Left,Right,O" O being a button or the center of the joystick.

Reasonable, I suppose, but how does this apply to your theory of the Six Rokkenjima Buildings?

Anyway that idea is most likely right I mean in VN 5 Furudo Erika was indeed "playing with some mech device" Before they found the hidden place that lead to the Gold ^^.

Once again, reasonable, but still, how does this apply to your theory of the Six Rokkenjima Buildings? Yes, Rokkenjima translates as "Six House Island." But you're talking about there being six physical buildings on the island, while there's really only four proper buildings, with one supposed to be a secret.

While it's really nice of you to take a theory and try and boost it along the parts that it's weak on or can't cross, the fact that you're telling us all that it's better and that we should stop thinking of new ones is quite out of line for you. As well, there are a lot of errors and discrepancies in your own theory. I don't mind you trying to prove that a theory is better, but please get better proof for your points, ones that don't have so many weak points.

[ErenselTheJester]

Hello, I'm not completely done with this yet, but I think I'm close to solving the Epitaph with a little method of mine.

You see, the main thing I used is the map of Japan and a list of japanese letters. Looking at the Epitaph now that I have a good understanding of its contents, it seems more like a map than a riddle.

My beloved hometown, the bountiful river running through it. You who seek the Golden Land, follow it's path downstream and seek the key. If you follow the river downstream, you will find a village. In the village, look for the shore the two will tell you of. There sleeps the key to the Golden Land.

One thing that I realized about this part of the Epitaph is that its mixed up. The hardest part about this is the "beloved hometown," which has only clue that follows after it: "the bountiful river." Concerning the meaning of the "bountiful river," Japan has very few rivers, if any at all, but it does have alot of expressways and roads. Still, its hard to pinpoint where the "hometown" is because there are plenty of places that crossover roads and expressways. However, the clues that follow after it- the "village" and "the two"-- actually help give a semi- exact location. In Japan, villages are pretty much sections of larger cities, which helps having to look into a large area. As to what the "two" refer to, well... there are only two places with the same: Hokkaido and Hokkaido. But Hokkaido is a large prefecture, so I looked into what "Shore" might reference to and there is a small peninsula between Hokkaido and Hokkaido named Moruran.

So I started from there and began with the twilights. After Moruran, there are six cities above it- Date, Noboritetsu, Tomakami, Chitose, Eniwa, and Sapporo. If you look at the twilights and compare them to the map, they are good references as to what the map says. First of all is the fact that there are six cities lined up in a row- I'm guessing that these are six sacrifices. Second, two of those cities are seperated by an expressway- the two that are seperated, but I'm not too sure about this either. Now as to what the third twilight stands for I have no idea except that those cities might have a link to Kinzo in some way.

Now, here's the most interesting part. If you look at the fifth through eighth twilights and trace gouges on your body, they form a path. If trace that same path on the map, it would lead you into Sapporo.

I would like to finish this by saying that I haven't figured out the rest yet, but I think its pretty interesting way of seeing it. I call this my "Dual Sapporo Viewpoint." "Dual" because if you look from the top of another city- Shibetsu- it leads you to the same place. Now I'm not saying that this is a theory more like just another way of seeing things since, according to the Game, an atlas is somehow put into the equation.

[Jan-Poo]

I've tried to find more detailed information on the Qilian station, and I came across to a chinese text that was talking about it. The translation was provided by Nadeor:

Alright, I'll give it a shot
(The pronunciation system which I use is probably different than the one been used in Taiwan, mine is the PinYin, so some characters may have different pronunciations)

唭哩岸(Qi Li An)'s fame was dispersed as the post-war Fresh Water railway established its own prosperity, but later once again came into the public focus as the urban transportation came near it

At the end of the 19th century, the Japanese laiddown the Fresh Water railway (淡水线, Dan Shui Xian) to connect the Taipei City and 淡水港(possibly "Fresh Water Harbor"). Around 1910, the 唭哩岸 station was set up nearby the local quarry, mainly for transporting industrial raw rocks that can sustain high temperatures. In the 1950s, 唭哩岸 is under the 阳明山 (Yang Ming Shan, Yang Ming Mountain) management department's control. Then in the 1960s its control was turned to the Taipei Administration. At the same time, its name: 唭哩岸 was replaced by the new name of 立农 (Li Nong). In the 1970s, due to the establishment of the National Yang Ming Medical Academy, shut down the quarry, established the 东华 (Dong Hua) park, and closed down the Fresh Water Railway. 唭哩岸's name disappeared from the Taiwanese map. In 1997, as the Taiwanese urban transportation system Fresh Water Line opened up, a new 唭哩岸 station for the transportation system was established. 唭哩岸 was thus once again able to have its name appear on the Taiwanese map

Freshwater is the translation of "Danshui" which is the name of the railway, anyway what's important here is the fact that by the time Kinzo was living in the "homeland" the Qilian station existed. However the name was changed in 1960, and in 1970 the station was shut down and removed from maps.

So basically if Qilian really is the "key" then the epitaph wouldn't be solvable unless the people on Rokkenjima looked into an atlas that was older than 1970, which is 16 years before. And there's a chance that an atlas that was published after 1960 would use the new name and not "qilian".

[matteas]

The books in that room were Kinzo's books too, weren't they? If yes, then it's very likely the atlas was no newer than 16 years.

[Jan-Poo]

A lot of those books are certainly Kinzo's books, however since that place is nothing more than a book storage it's possible that there are also a lot of books that were once owned by the 4 siblings, unless they trashed them, I can't see where else they could have ended.

There is a quite fair possibility that an atlas as old as 20 years or more exist there, however at the same time I find very unlikely that a more recent atlas doesn't exist, especially considering that there's been at least 3 people that had to study geography at school while residing in the island.

[rogerpepitone]

The epitaph was only written a few years ago. Why would Kinzo use an out of date atlas in writing it?

[Jan-Poo]

Who knows... maybe. Since in the epitaph he tells about a homeland of his past, maybe he expects his heirs to look at a map of that time.

[sn0w75]

I'm a bit late joining this conversation, so I've only read the past 5 pgs. or so...
So I know about a few popular theories now, and have an ok idea of how things are going here.

Question:
Why 'Quadrillion'? Why not 'Probability'?

Reading the sentence about the chapel, I looked for other 11-character words and probability popped up.

Probability also makes me think about Lambda and Bern, who have to do with (as I read in a Ryukishi interview) certainty ("turning the 99.99% chance into 100%", the interview said) and miracles ("Not denying the possibility of a .01% chance").
http://community.livejournal.com/witchhunters/6828.html

It also mentioned something about Lambda not really having a connection to Higurashi (Bernkastel's name showed up, but no Lambdadelta)....also mention of them having something to do with the core of Umineko, but whether that part is the epitaph or not, who knows...
This feels kind of important, but I'm not sure if it's relevant. After all, 'Probability' is just another 11-character word- I have nothing else in my 'theory'.

(Lambdadelta is also, by chance 11 characters but I really doubt that's the key, since she's unmentioned out of the meta-world)

(In the end, though, I'm completely taken by the Taiwan->Qilian->Quadrillion->LORD U theory; Especially with the Qilian<->Golden Land and Quadrillion <-> Chapel <-> Kuwadorian (they sound similar) connection. The only problem is finding out why this random place in Taiwan is the hometown. There's other theories that also lead to Qilian->Quadrillion->LORD U; It seems to me that perhaps nobody has gotten the 1st part right, but have by coincidence found their way to Qilian? Although with the Taiwan theory the Japanese characters match up as well, it's a little too compelling to be coincidence...So- Why this place in Taiwan? Was there any vague mention of Taiwan, even, in any part of the series?)

[Raiza Sunozaki]

Originally Posted by sn0w75

I'm a bit late joining this conversation, so I've only read the past 5 pgs. or so...
So I know about a few popular theories now, and have an ok idea of how things are going here.

Question:
Why 'Quadrillion'? Why not 'Probability'?

Reading the sentence about the chapel, I looked for other 11-character words and probability popped up.

Probability also makes me think about Lambda and Bern, who have to do with (as I read in a Ryukishi interview) certainty ("turning the 99.99% chance into 100%", the interview said) and miracles ("Not denying the possibility of a .01% chance").
http://community.livejournal.com/witchhunters/6828.html

It also mentioned something about Lambda not really having a connection to Higurashi (Bernkastel's name showed up, but no Lambdadelta)....also mention of them having something to do with the core of Umineko, but whether that part is the epitaph or not, who knows...
This feels kind of important, but I'm not sure if it's relevant. After all, 'Probability' is just another 11-character word- I have nothing else in my 'theory'.

(Lambdadelta is also, by chance 11 characters but I really doubt that's the key, since she's unmentioned out of the meta-world)

(In the end, though, I'm completely taken by the Taiwan->Qilian->Quadrillion->LORD U theory; Especially with the Qilian<->Golden Land and Quadrillion <-> Chapel <-> Kuwadorian (they sound similar) connection. The only problem is finding out why this random place in Taiwan is the hometown. There's other theories that also lead to Qilian->Quadrillion->LORD U; It seems to me that perhaps nobody has gotten the 1st part right, but have by coincidence found their way to Qilian? Although with the Taiwan theory the Japanese characters match up as well, it's a little too compelling to be coincidence...So- Why this place in Taiwan? Was there any vague mention of Taiwan, even, in any part of the series?)

That's interesting. I haven't looked into probability yet. I guess since "quadrillion" sounds so much like "Kuwadorian", it was thought to be the right word. But knowing Kinzo's love of taking a gamble, "probability" isn't too far-fetch'd.
And there are a few connections between Higurashi and Lambda, they're just kinda subtle and have no real purpose besides fanservice. Higurashi and Umineko are different series.
It was mentioned once, in Episode 5, as the place Krauss and Natsuhi visited on their honeymoon, I believe. Other than that, there's no real evidence to support it except for logical deductions. Which is one of the reasons I don't like it.
Then again, the entire epitaph has very little real evidence supporting it's theories, so I guess it depends on your opinion of what logical deductions you like better.

[sn0w75]

Originally Posted by Raiza Sunozaki

That's interesting. I haven't looked into probability yet. I guess since "quadrillion" sounds so much like "Kuwadorian", it was thought to be the right word. But knowing Kinzo's love of taking a gamble, "probability" isn't too far-fetch'd.
And there are a few connections between Higurashi and Lambda, they're just kinda subtle and have no real purpose besides fanservice. Higurashi and Umineko are different series.
It was mentioned once, in Episode 5, as the place Krauss and Natsuhi visited on their honeymoon, I believe. Other than that, there's no real evidence to support it except for logical deductions. Which is one of the reasons I don't like it.
Then again, the entire epitaph has very little real evidence supporting it's theories, so I guess it depends on your opinion of what logical deductions you like better.

OMG I had forgotten that!!!!
All makes sense now!
Kinzo dies. Maybe he's killed, maybe he dies peacefully, but either way, as depicted in EP 5, Natsuhi and Krauss have a huge, huge problem. So they put up the epitaph (thus why the starting place is Taiwan). Why they put it up...I don't get. But that's not the point for us who are trying to understand the epitaph here. (Although I admit I'm doing the taboo a bit here- Not thinking about it)

Why are we so convinced Kinzo wrote this? It makes just as much (and even more given the circumstances now) sense that Krauss and/or Natsuhi wrote the epitaph for whatever reason. Once Kinzo's dead (and maybe even before then considering how much Kinzo shut himself up) Krauss and Natsuhi run the Ushiromiya house.

[Dlanor A. Knox]

I am still wonderig where the hell does Kauss get one piece of the golden treasure...

and it doesnt make really sence for Krauss and Natushi to make the etitaph, they where in need of money so they would have used the gold. + to make the etitaph, you should know where the gold lies.

So Krauss&Natushi writing the etipaph, that doesnt fit the picture.

Anyway, I think that the hiddenplace of the gold is atleast nearby the garden.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by sn0w75

Why are we so convinced Kinzo wrote this? It makes just as much (and even more given the circumstances now) sense that Krauss and/or Natsuhi wrote the epitaph for whatever reason. Once Kinzo's dead (and maybe even before then considering how much Kinzo shut himself up) Krauss and Natsuhi run the Ushiromiya house.

We are convinced that Kinzo wrote it because he was still alive when the Epitaph was shown. The epitaph was shown in 1984, and everyone has seen Kinzo at the family meeting of 1984.

am still wonderig where the hell does Kauss get one piece of the golden treasure...

I don't see that as a big mystery... In order to get funds from a bank, Kinzo brought a bank representative to the island and let him see the mountain of gold. The bank representative was astonished but he still need further proof that the gold was true. Then Kinzo told him to take an ingot to examine it. The bank representative took a random ingot and brought it back to the mainland where he made it analyze. Since the gold wasn't officially issued by any authorized institution, such a proof was necessary to guarantee its validity. Anyway the analysis proved that the gold was of pure quality and real.

The bank therefore accepted to give huge funds to Kinzo, knowing that he would have been able to repay the debt with the gold. However that wasn't necessary because through skillful investments Kinzo made a fortune, he was able to repay the dept with money and still had a lot left to create an empire. Apparently Kinzo never bothered to ask that single ingot back.

Then Kinzo died, and Krauss begun to wondering if that gold legend really was true. So he started an investigation and contacted the bank representative that Kinzo claimed to have entrusted the ingot to. In the end he managed to get the ingot back, and with it, the tangible proof that the mountain of gold wasn't a legend.

[rogerpepitone]

The scene when Krauss shows Natsuhi the ingot is doubtful.

1: In Episode 1, when Natsuhi is trying to think of an inaccessible room, she doesn't think of the ingot room, nor do any of the servants.

2: In Episode 4, when Battler is searching the mansion at the end, he makes no mention of a padlocked door.

3: I'm pretty sure there's a scene in Episode 2 when Rosa asks the servants about any secret areas and none of them mention it.

[ErenselTheJester]

I think I have a good answer to the Epitaph. I call this my "Sapporo" theory.

First, you need an atlas- I believe that is the "key" mentioned in the Epitaph. The "beloved hometown" is what you are looking for and will be the start of your "Journey". Now, the "two" who the Epitaph speak are two places in the atlas that will have the same name. I noticed that Hokkaido has two areas where its name is mentioned twice, look for the area in the middle of those two and you will find Moruran. Moruran is the "hometown" and from there you will find a six cities after that in a path. These cities are the "six sacrifices" and if you trace your body according to the fourth through fifth twilights, it will match up to the pathway of the cities. Now, once you reach Sapporo (this is if you were physically there), you will waterwitch through the water until you find the gold, or at least search around the coast or something.

I'm not too sure of this myself, but I think it works. Of course, there are alot more stuff that I could've added on to this, but I'm just giving the short version for now.