AnimeSuki Forums

Tyabann · 2012-06-03, 13:28

So, this pretty much destroys the whole 12,000 years thing, doesn't it? You know, the entire point of the franchise?

Yep, I'm not watching this show anymore. I'm done.

GoldenLand · 2012-06-03, 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

So, this pretty much destroys the whole 12,000 years thing, doesn't it? You know, the entire point of the franchise?

Assuming that this twist was planned from the beginning, the entire point of the franchise was Kawamori chuckling while the fandom thought the 12,000 years Apollonius/Celiane thing was the entire point of the franchise, and preparing to pull the rug out from under their feet...

Tyabann · 2012-06-03, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

Assuming that this twist was planned from the beginning

It, it wasn't though. This is not a sort of thing you plan out from the beginning, and I would argue that it's not even something that they had planned out from the beginning of THIS show.

It makes the whole 12,000 years thing from something tragic and beautiful into a joke. It's an insult to everyone.

mayumi · 2012-06-03, 13:50

I don't really care at this point about the story and reincarnations and the love between Pollon and Celiane

Or the shitty fate stuff.
If Zessica does turn out to be the really really light light bright half of Touma's soul then just please let her die. It's just so sad that she can never get anything in this show. Not even a stupid dog's love.

GoldenLand · 2012-06-03, 14:00

I'm not sure. We'll know for certain whether or not it was planned in advance when and if Kawamori tells us, I think. It could well be something planned in advance, if they had thought during Genesis that they might want to have a sequel sometime. Or it could be something they thought of just in the planning for this series. That said, I am interested in how they intend to square the new revelation with some of the events in Genesis, because right now I don't see how it works. They will have to make an attempt to answer those questions regardless of when they came up with the idea.

To play devil's advocate, is it really a joke? Love is prevailing in EVOL, it just isn't destined love which continues through each and every reincarnation cycle and can't ever change. In some ways, the idea that people will fall in love in each and every one of their reincarnations is very limiting. Take what we previously believed about Apollonius and Celiane: that each time, they would become new people with new traits, and that they would have to fall in love all over again with that new person, but that they definitely would fall in love, and nothing could change it?

Winged_Memories · 2012-06-03, 14:05

After I watched this episode I was like Oh OKAY yeah it makes sense, then I was remembering back to Sousei and then I was like HEY WAIT a minute that doesn't make sense so it goes hand in hand I guess, they probably weren't expecting fans to re-watch or remember a lot of the events in Sousei and the OVA, and we never really were told the WHOLE story of 24,000 years ago, only bits and pieces so its good now that they shed light on the story and it will probably take some getting use too cos Pollon = Apollo = Amagura so Solar Aquarion = Apollonius?? But really would you rather see Celiane get with Solar Aquarion or with Amagura (who btw is at least HUMAN again in this lifetime lol) and did anyone notice that this turn of events could possibly be why they used the name APOLLON instead of APOLLO? (Combination of Apollo and Pollon...nice NICE VERY NICE hidden meaning Kawamori o.O)...No hard feelings towards Aquarion Evol but the whole dog thing is still bugging me just a tad bit, so I hoping they can come up with some more (COS WE NEED MORE) mecha fighting scenes.

crayven · 2012-06-03, 14:17

So Celiane's soul didn't recognize Pollon when she was Silvia but she did now as Mikono? Touma couldn't recognize his lover for 12000 (twelve thousand) years and chased after his winged dog for a whole show?

Come on, this is a big plot twist but do you have to degrade Apollo-Silvia's love into beastiality Kawamori? I know past lovers don't matter but a wife and her husband's dog... Please.

Oh and Mykage sure does like to torture a normal human girl a lot. This is getting really weird and sad now.

Winged_Memories · 2012-06-03, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

To play devil's advocate, is it really a joke? Love is prevailing in EVOL, it just isn't destined love which continues through each and every reincarnation cycle and can't ever change. In some ways, the idea that people will fall in love in each and every one of their reincarnations is very limiting. Take what we previously believed about Apollonius and Celiane: that each time, they would become new people with new traits, and that they would have to fall in love all over again with that new person, but that they definitely would fall in love, and nothing could change it?

From what I can deduce the whole (a "I am destined to be with you" (b "I am not destined to be with you" came about in 12,000 years ago (Sylvia and Apollo) because technically (or rather apparently Apollonius did not reincarnate cos he obviously had no regrets or lingering feelings for him to come back in the next cycle) but then you'd think he would get reincarnated at some point RIGHT??? So maybe he is actually Solar Aquarion (or like Fudo never dying and always around them)...Kagura and Amata are obviously stating the past and present but maybe Sylvia and Apollo were only destined to meet but falling in love with each other was entirely up to them because honestly no one not even destiny can determine who you fall in love with (but this is ANIME) or maybe it wasn't love at all but mutual feelings for each other in Sousei...because technically they didn't say "I Love You' yer they kissed but anyone can kiss...maybe Pollon is much more than he seems to be...

mixordia · 2012-06-03, 14:29

Seriously people, I'm envious of you still have energy to think about theories, because honestly after all, I gave up. I don't know if I laugh or cry of anger.

Spoiler for I really don't understand...:

cyberdemon · 2012-06-03, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

It, it wasn't though. This is not a sort of thing you plan out from the beginning, and I would argue that it's not even something that they had planned out from the beginning of THIS show.

It makes the whole 12,000 years thing from something tragic and beautiful into a joke. It's an insult to everyone.

It may have been. Apollo only had 2 instances of memories. One of those times he wS given them by the memories. The other time where he seemed to channel "Apollonius", Silvia made mention that he wasn't acting much like him.

Destined_Fate · 2012-06-03, 14:36

I guess... Well, I can't say anything about this until the subs but dayum did we all get trolled. Well there goes any chance of this being better than the original, huh?

Poor Zessica, they just can't stop kicking her... Guess she's going to die after all.

GoldenLand · 2012-06-03, 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixordia

Seriously people, I'm envious of you still have energy to think about theories, because honestly after all, I gave up. I don't know if I laugh or cry of anger.

Spoiler for I really don't understand...:

Yeah, what I want to know is how the writers can get out of that one. They must explain it.

Spoiler for It makes perfect sense!:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winged_Memories

...maybe Pollon is much more than he seems to be...

He's a sly dog!

Sorry, sorry. Couldn't help that one.

Destined_Fate · 2012-06-03, 14:51

I think they forgot about parts like that and are hoping most EVOL viewers didn't watch the original.

mayumi · 2012-06-03, 15:31

Why make sequel if they were just going to crap all over the original? Why so they can justify a Amata/Kagura-Mikono end?
So they can say Apollonius never gets with Celiane? Did they even have a child together or not?

mixordia · 2012-06-03, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayumi

Why make sequel if they were just going to crap all over the original? Why so they can justify a Amata/Kagura-Mikono end?
So they can say Apollonius never gets with Celiane? Did they even have a child together or not?

I want Celiane / Mikono stay with your pet dog now.

Vena · 2012-06-03, 15:43

Guess that explains a lot of stuff in Genesis... like why was Apollo's constellation a winged dog, or why he acted like a dog. Fudo, at this point, is most likely Apollonius.

That said... I'm really confused on the fate fighting thing now: So Apollonius/Celianne were fated but that didn't happen, instead Pollon took Apollonius' place, thwarted fate, and then set-up his own fate with Sylvia at the end of Genesis. So, today in EVOL, we have Pollon trying to complete the fate he set-up 12,000 years ago while continuing to (does this even count? Apollonius doesn't seem to even be dead) oppose the 24,000 years one. Amata is fighting himself over two fates, one to be and one not. I guess there's a sort of irony here now that there are two Pollons, two fates, but only one option.

My head is filled with noodles of confusion.

Oh, and Zessica seems to be no one or some really, really, really happy Touma portion that went ahead and took to loving Pollon.

On the plus side, Shrade went out like a boss.

miketyson · 2012-06-03, 16:38

Vena: you know what? I'm not even sure if this is or isn't the kind of deconstruction we've previously discussed its possibly being...really. It's something else.

Tyabann · 2012-06-03, 17:02

All this time these twelve thousand years bark bark bark bark bark

Destined_Fate · 2012-06-03, 17:48

So he already defied fate in the original and got Silvia's love... Than they made that promise making them destined to meet again so that he can fight his own fate because..? They do meet so and everything plays out as planned because they're destined to be together now(With Apollonius not really caring that his old lover is into bestiality) but they must still fight their own fate they made because... You know what, why bother? They're just going to find something else to throw out to troll us. No point in trying to make sense of this and just wait for this to end horribly since the way things have went there wont be a good conclusion to all the BS they've thrown at us. The only thing to look forward to is that maybe they'll stop tormenting poor Zessica before the end.

genjo sanzo · 2012-06-03, 17:53

Tell me why i think Mikage wants more from Zessica? It's not just her body, he 's got superpowers, he doesn't need help to use the Aquarion. He needs a female body to do something dirty with Apollonius/Solar Wings.
When he enters Zessica body, the first touched part is her belly...

View Poll Results: Aquarion EVOL - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10	12	18.46%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	13	20.00%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	8	12.31%
7 out of 10 : Good	3	4.62%
6 out of 10 : Average	3	4.62%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	1	1.54%
4 out of 10 : Poor	4	6.15%
3 out of 10 : Bad	2	3.08%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	1	1.54%
1 out of 10 : Painful	18	27.69%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

2012-06-03, 15:43	Link #36
Vena Carpe Diem Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: \|\|At the edge of finality.\|\| Age: 34	Guess that explains a lot of stuff in Genesis... like why was Apollo's constellation a winged dog, or why he acted like a dog. Fudo, at this point, is most likely Apollonius. That said... I'm really confused on the fate fighting thing now: So Apollonius/Celianne were fated but that didn't happen, instead Pollon took Apollonius' place, thwarted fate, and then set-up his own fate with Sylvia at the end of Genesis. So, today in EVOL, we have Pollon trying to complete the fate he set-up 12,000 years ago while continuing to (does this even count? Apollonius doesn't seem to even be dead) oppose the 24,000 years one. Amata is fighting himself over two fates, one to be and one not. I guess there's a sort of irony here now that there are two Pollons, two fates, but only one option. My head is filled with noodles of confusion. Oh, and Zessica seems to be no one or some really, really, really happy Touma portion that went ahead and took to loving Pollon. On the plus side, Shrade went out like a boss. __________________

2012-06-03, 13:28	Link #21
Tyabann Homo Ludens Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Canada Age: 34	So, this pretty much destroys the whole 12,000 years thing, doesn't it? You know, the entire point of the franchise? Yep, I'm not watching this show anymore. I'm done.

2012-06-03, 13:50	Link #24
mayumi Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004	I don't really care at this point about the story and reincarnations and the love between Pollon and Celiane Or the shitty fate stuff. If Zessica does turn out to be the really really light light bright half of Touma's soul then just please let her die. It's just so sad that she can never get anything in this show. Not even a stupid dog's love.

2012-06-03, 14:00	Link #25
GoldenLand Eaten by goats Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Rokkenjima	I'm not sure. We'll know for certain whether or not it was planned in advance when and if Kawamori tells us, I think. It could well be something planned in advance, if they had thought during Genesis that they might want to have a sequel sometime. Or it could be something they thought of just in the planning for this series. That said, I am interested in how they intend to square the new revelation with some of the events in Genesis, because right now I don't see how it works. They will have to make an attempt to answer those questions regardless of when they came up with the idea. To play devil's advocate, is it really a joke? Love is prevailing in EVOL, it just isn't destined love which continues through each and every reincarnation cycle and can't ever change. In some ways, the idea that people will fall in love in each and every one of their reincarnations is very limiting. Take what we previously believed about Apollonius and Celiane: that each time, they would become new people with new traits, and that they would have to fall in love all over again with that new person, but that they definitely would fall in love, and nothing could change it?

2012-06-03, 14:05	Link #26
Winged_Memories Mi Corazon Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: AUSTRALIA	After I watched this episode I was like Oh OKAY yeah it makes sense, then I was remembering back to Sousei and then I was like HEY WAIT a minute that doesn't make sense so it goes hand in hand I guess, they probably weren't expecting fans to re-watch or remember a lot of the events in Sousei and the OVA, and we never really were told the WHOLE story of 24,000 years ago, only bits and pieces so its good now that they shed light on the story and it will probably take some getting use too cos Pollon = Apollo = Amagura so Solar Aquarion = Apollonius?? But really would you rather see Celiane get with Solar Aquarion or with Amagura (who btw is at least HUMAN again in this lifetime lol) and did anyone notice that this turn of events could possibly be why they used the name APOLLON instead of APOLLO? (Combination of Apollo and Pollon...nice NICE VERY NICE hidden meaning Kawamori o.O)...No hard feelings towards Aquarion Evol but the whole dog thing is still bugging me just a tad bit, so I hoping they can come up with some more (COS WE NEED MORE) mecha fighting scenes.

2012-06-03, 14:17	Link #27
crayven Member Join Date: Jul 2008	So Celiane's soul didn't recognize Pollon when she was Silvia but she did now as Mikono? Touma couldn't recognize his lover for 12000 (twelve thousand) years and chased after his winged dog for a whole show? Come on, this is a big plot twist but do you have to degrade Apollo-Silvia's love into beastiality Kawamori? I know past lovers don't matter but a wife and her husband's dog... Please. Oh and Mykage sure does like to torture a normal human girl a lot. This is getting really weird and sad now.

2012-06-03, 14:29	Link #29
mixordia ... Join Date: Jan 2012	Seriously people, I'm envious of you still have energy to think about theories, because honestly after all, I gave up. I don't know if I laugh or cry of anger. Spoiler for I really don't understand...:

2012-06-03, 14:36	Link #31
Destined_Fate Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."	I guess... Well, I can't say anything about this until the subs but dayum did we all get trolled. Well there goes any chance of this being better than the original, huh? Poor Zessica, they just can't stop kicking her... Guess she's going to die after all.

2012-06-03, 14:51	Link #33
Destined_Fate Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."	I think they forgot about parts like that and are hoping most EVOL viewers didn't watch the original.

2012-06-03, 15:31	Link #34
mayumi Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004	Why make sequel if they were just going to crap all over the original? Why so they can justify a Amata/Kagura-Mikono end? So they can say Apollonius never gets with Celiane? Did they even have a child together or not?

2012-06-03, 16:38	Link #37
miketyson Senior Member Join Date: May 2011	Vena: you know what? I'm not even sure if this is or isn't the kind of deconstruction we've previously discussed its possibly being...really. It's something else.

2012-06-03, 17:02	Link #38
Tyabann Homo Ludens Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Canada Age: 34	All this time these twelve thousand years bark bark bark bark bark

2012-06-03, 17:48	Link #39
Destined_Fate Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."	So he already defied fate in the original and got Silvia's love... Than they made that promise making them destined to meet again so that he can fight his own fate because..? They do meet so and everything plays out as planned because they're destined to be together now(With Apollonius not really caring that his old lover is into bestiality) but they must still fight their own fate they made because... You know what, why bother? They're just going to find something else to throw out to troll us. No point in trying to make sense of this and just wait for this to end horribly since the way things have went there wont be a good conclusion to all the BS they've thrown at us. The only thing to look forward to is that maybe they'll stop tormenting poor Zessica before the end.

2012-06-03, 17:53	Link #40
genjo sanzo Junior Member Join Date: May 2004	Tell me why i think Mikage wants more from Zessica? It's not just her body, he 's got superpowers, he doesn't need help to use the Aquarion. He needs a female body to do something dirty with Apollonius/Solar Wings. When he enters Zessica body, the first touched part is her belly...