Hanasaku Iroha (generic discussion thread)

[Blue-kun]

Originally Posted by Sackett

She dumped her child on the grandma that disowned her to go on a midnight flit.

That's pretty much "terrible mother" stamp right there.

Spoiler for Ohana's mum:

I see where you are going, and I guess just reading that would also make me agree with you on the spot. Leaving your kid to the care of the mother who supposedly has something against her is a pretty harsh thing to do. However, and maybe I am being naive here, I don't think that's all there is to it. Sure, eating broccoli in itself isn't enough, but it's the whole "she cares for Ohana" part that matters here. If she really was some crazy woman who had zero feelings for her daughter, why go to such lengths? She might be bad, and maybe she herself even acknowledges it, but is unable to change her ways and, more importantly, isn't honest with her daughter nor herself.

We don't really know what happened in Ohana's mum childhood, and from what we've seen the two of them are quite different. Ohana is a dilligent girl, despite her mistakes she's quite hard-working and good natured. Her mum, on the other hand, seems to be completely irresponsible. I imagine living under the same roof as grandmother might have been really hard on her and, when you put it all together, she probably faced some serious issues while growing up. And it shows. This situation seems to be what gave birth to this completely messed up personality she seems to have, and yet, now that's she's older, maybe she slowly starts to acknowledge that grandmother wasn't all wrong back in the day, and due to lack of confidence in herself believes that Ohana moving there would be beneficial for her in the long run, since she's this much of a failure as a mother. Besides, Ohana was always very transparent towards her, and she probably knows Ohana hardly feels anything special for her.

...Or she's just awful and I want to believe in fairy tales.

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Spoiler:

-How aware is the Grandmother of what Taro's been writing? She seemed ok with his stuff not getting found out.

Spoiler for About the papers:

When I saw her reaction at first I thought she simply assumed the "papers" never existed in the first place, and as such it'd be a huge mistake to go search for them. As in, she'd seen through the guy and how he was just trying to trick them, but couldn't do much about it. I wonder how she's going to react if/when she finds out about the contents, though.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Blue-kun

Spoiler for About the papers:

When I saw her reaction at first I thought she simply assumed the "papers" never existed in the first place, and as such it'd be a huge mistake to go search for them. As in, she'd seen through the guy and how he was just trying to trick them, but couldn't do much about it. I wonder how she's going to react if/when she finds out about the contents, though.

I guess we find out how far Grandma REALLY stretches the *Customer First, Employee at the very last* idea. Cause you know, logically that would make it quite natural to allow the author to write erotica about her employees.


(Hmmm, I wonder who Taro ships with who...)

[TinyRedLeaf]

I caught the first episode well before coming across the withering comments that compare this series to K-drama, so I was actually surprised that people felt that way. I'm heavily biased against K-drama and Taiwanese drama, not because of the soppy sentimentality I typically associate with such shows, but rather because of the formulaic claptrap upon which most such stories are based.

In contrast, my immediate impression of Hanasaku Iroha was overwhelming good. More to the point, even if I hadn't found the premise promising, I would still have been blown away by the tremendous quality of its art and animation.

Everything is so pretty, it's hard to tear my eyes away from the screen.

So, perhaps I'm too dazzled to pick up whatever is supposedly cliched about the story so far through Ep2. On the basis that there's nothing really original any more, just better (or worse) spins of the same old yarns, I would say that, yes, the situations in which Ohana finds herself are indeed very familiar, especially if you've been indulging in a bit too much TV.

But I like how sharply observed everyone's behaviour is — from their speech patterns to their idiosyncratic mannerisms. It's a delight to watch.

That said, this is cut-and-dry drama as far as I can tell. Expertly crafted to tug at heartstrings, but for it to generate all that discussion and angst over comparative cultural studies...? Can't say I'm not amused, in ways both pleasant and sarcastic.

If Hanairo gets its own sub-forum, take note that I'm the first to call it.

[Irisiel]

Spoiler for Episode 2:

So, while I might understand that Minko might be feeling some pressure, I really just want someone to tell her "Minko, sweetie, not everything is about you", 'cause Ohana's breakfast was not just for Minko, but for everyone, and to immediately assume it's all about her is the opposite of consideration.

I mean, Ohana basically covered Minko's ass (can you think of how cranky everyone would be without food?), and while the cook was inconsiderate, Minko should not take it out on Ohana and tell her to die.

And the grandmother seems not to be totally unreasonable, considering how she handled the ero-author.

I'm beginning to think that Ohana's mother learned early on not to rely on her own parents and sibling, and struck out on her own, but because she was still relatively sheltered, she had a bunch of hard knocks before valuing independence above all else and therefore cannot see a problem with how she's raising Ohana. To her, Ohana is a success because Ohana could essentially live on her own, if she wasn't a minor.

But it's really bizarre: The author isn't considerate of the cleaners and uses the trash as a filing cabinet, instead of, you know, use a separate box.
Grandmother isn't considerate of Nako or Ohana when she pairs them up.
Nako isn't considerate of her duties when she only explains things when she really, really has to.
Minko isn't considerate of Ohana when she assumes that it's all about upstaging her.
Tohru isn't considerate of Minko or the others when he doesn't plan ahead, knowing that Minko isn't the best cook and by making that comment.
The chef himself isn't the most considerate, but has his priorities straight.

Yet it is Ohana, who makes sure that the rooms are cleaned when Nako runs away to help a customer and who makes sure there's breakfast when Minko screws up, who is considered the inconsiderate one. Can't really wrap my head around this one.

[Raiga]

Originally Posted by Sackett

On Ohana not being "considerate", I got the impression that the translator was using the older definition of "considerate" rather then the more common modern usage.

Taken directly from a dictionary, most of us probably think of this definition:

1. showing kindly awareness or regard for another's feelings, circumstances, etc.: a very considerate critic.

However, I think the intended definition was as follows (also taken from the same dictionary):

2. carefully considered; deliberate.
3. marked by consideration or reflection; deliberate; prudent.

And while Ohana is clearly the first definition of considerate, I think it reasonable to accuse her of not being considerate in the second or third definition.

That's what I assumed everyone meant when she was labeled as "not considerate".

No, it was the first definition. She was described as "kuuki ga yomenai" (unable to read the atmosphere, i.e. take a hint about how other people are feeling, etc.).

[Kismet-chan]

Excellent episode. I'm liking Ohana more and more. The visuals of both the OP & ED are beautiful, but the songs are meh. However, the song on the radio when Ohana was in the van with Tohru was actually pretty nice, lol.

I know Tohru seems like a jerkwad, but there is some validity in his words towards Ohana. (His attitude towards Minko, however, is just unacceptable -- no matter how ill-mannered/lacking in skill she may be. Don't give important tasks to people who don't have the expertise. That's just common sense.) I also really liked the Grandmother's disposition in this episode. She may be strict, but it doesn't get in the way of her wisdom and better judgment; "Madam Manager" knew that something was funky about pervy writer dude. She was probably just waiting for the right moment to have an excuse to get rid of him. I can't wait to see what her reaction to the content of his ero-writing will be.

I hope nothing bad happens to Ohana. If he does ANYTHING to her, someone needs to swiftly kick that loser right in the balls.

[Blue-kun]

Originally Posted by Kismet-chan

I hope nothing bad happens to Ohana. If he does ANYTHING to her, someone needs to swiftly kick that loser right in the balls.

Although maybe we're all worrying a bit too much. We had some clear demonstration of what Ohana can do, and I definitely would not like to be the object of her anger:

Spoiler for Image:

All a case of fantastic foreshadowing, most certainly!

[cyth]

Spoiler for episode 02:

I have to agree with Blue-kun on the matter of Ohana's mum. For Ohana to have such a different character than her parent, that must have taken some sort of miraculous upbringing, considering parental characteristics can carry over for generations and generations. Sending her to Kissuisou was probably the best decision she could have made for her daughter. Even the few personality flaws Ohana has, which can be attributed mostly to youthful naivete, the new environment she's been thrown in is changing her for the better, fulfilling her as a person. Of course I thought at the beginning just what kind of mum this bitch is, but then I thought of CLANNAD and Tomoya's dad. As someone else has said before, life can be tough, and Ohana may hate her mother for the rest of her life, but this decision she made for her was indeed way better than selfishly taking her daughter on the run with her. In fact, I imagine I'd have a hard time sending my daughter to be raised by a relative I despise with passion. So overall I think her mum is pretty darn cool.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Glad Ohana called Minko on her telling people to die. It is a pretty terrible thing to tell a person.

Also, I also get the impression that the Grandmother knew it was a waste of time to look for his "script," thus not making Ohana shift through the trash.

Also, cliff-hanger ending, but next episode preview seems to indicate she will be fine.

--

As for Ohana's mother, I see her interaction with her daughter as: "I know I'm a bad mother, so I'll accept the punishment."

I still dislike her, but at least she isn't a total b*tch.

[Sackett]

Originally Posted by Raiga

No, it was the first definition. She was described as "kuuki ga yomenai" (unable to read the atmosphere, i.e. take a hint about how other people are feeling, etc.).

Huh, really? I guess I can see that, but inconsiderate still isn't a very accurate translation then.

"Oblivious" would be a better word. Or maybe "lacking in conscientiousness" or "lacking in awareness".

Which I can see. Ohana often has good intentions but is oblivious to subtext. There were signs for Ohana that would have helped her avoid her mistakes- although to be fair they were pretty subtle.

In my opinion being a hard worker is more important as awareness is easier to train someone in.

[Xacual]

Honestly it seems like Minko isn't learning too well from the kitchen staff, thoughts on Ohana coaching her instead? At least that's the thought I got from this episode that it will happen later once they get closer.

I liked the second episode a lot, especially the scene where Ohana serves the "punishment food." Had me laughing at her expression + crossed arms.

[Raiga]

Originally Posted by Sackett

Huh, really? I guess I can see that, but inconsiderate still isn't a very accurate translation then.

"Oblivious" would be a better word. Or maybe "lacking in conscientiousness" or "lacking in awareness".

Which I can see. Ohana often has good intentions but is oblivious to subtext. There were signs for Ohana that would have helped her avoid her mistakes- although to be fair they were pretty subtle.

In my opinion being a hard worker is more important as awareness is easier to train someone in.

Yeah I can't say I'm huge on CR's translation for this show; I'm all for taking liberties and dynamic equivalence (in fact I'm vehemently against overly literal translations) but I feel on many lines it takes liberties that it doesn't have to. That is to say, the line could be translated closer to the Japanese meaning but still sound like natural English.

Spoiler for Slight digression:

Like the part where the cook yells at Ohana, "What do I do about all the baggage?" and she replies, "Shirimasen!" Subtitles said, "You'll figure something out," while IMO it could have been translated just as well as, "Don't ask me!" (shirimasen = I don't know). Both ways sound natural in English and work fine in context, so I don't see any reason not to choose the one that's closer to the literal Japanese meaning.

[Reckoner]

Episode 1 was a touch of class nicer, but this follow up episode was still very, very good. I'll give it a 9/10.

I really, really loved how Ohana confronted the two girls on how they've been treating her. It's really nice to see a proactive lead meet the challenges in front of her. She's a rather likable character, that doesn't give up immediately. She gives it all her effort.

I hope both this series and Steins;Gate get a subforum, they're both the best shows of the season thus far.

Yeah, I pretty much have nothing but praise so far.

[coolhorsems]

Here comes again, Hina sucks with 4 guys~~

[felix]

What’s with all this mom was bad because she sent Ohana to live with her granny? IF she took her with her, Ohana wouldn’t exactly walking the path to anything worthwhile for her. “Disowned” doesn’t mean she’s not her daughter, or Ohana isn’t her granddaughter; it’s just a matter of acknowledgment. Also, given current information, a lot of you are jumping on the “bad parent” wagon far too easily. We saw barely anything. The whole “she cooks and cleans a lot,” doesn’t mean her mother did absolutely nothing. Her mother wasn’t exactly portrayed as a lardass watching Tv all day and forcing Ohana to do the chores. Ohana also doesn’t hate her mother, at all!

[Sackett]

Originally Posted by Raiga

Yeah I can't say I'm huge on CR's translation for this show; I'm all for taking liberties and dynamic equivalence (in fact I'm vehemently against overly literal translations) but I feel on many lines it takes liberties that it doesn't have to. That is to say, the line could be translated closer to the Japanese meaning but still sound like natural English.

Spoiler for Slight digression:

Like the part where the cook yells at Ohana, "What do I do about all the baggage?" and she replies, "Shirimasen!" Subtitles said, "You'll figure something out," while IMO it could have been translated just as well as, "Don't ask me!" (shirimasen = I don't know). Both ways sound natural in English and work fine in context, so I don't see any reason not to choose the one that's closer to the literal Japanese meaning.

Yeah, I noticed that too.

I've also seen it in some other anime too. Baka being translated as "What do you mean", and stuff like that.

[Sageblink]

Glorious 2nd episode. Beautiful music when Ohana tried to connect with the girls !!
I don't want to talk to much of it cause I don't feel I need to.

The end is a bit creepy, though...

[mysterious]

Originally Posted by felix

What’s with all this mom was bad because she sent Ohana to live with her granny? IF she took her with her, Ohana wouldn’t exactly walking the path to anything worthwhile for her. “Disowned” doesn’t mean she’s not her daughter, or Ohana isn’t her granddaughter; it’s just a matter of acknowledgment. Also, given current information, a lot of you are jumping on the “bad parent” wagon far too easily. We saw barely anything. The whole “she cooks and cleans a lot,” doesn’t mean her mother did absolutely nothing. Her mother wasn’t exactly portrayed as a lardass watching Tv all day and forcing Ohana to do the chores. Ohana also doesn’t hate her mother, at all!

She could just stay with her daughter and let that loser boy friend of her run away from the loan shark for all he can. I dont recall that she cosign the debt with him so they have no reason to run away. Biological, Ohana is her mother daughter and grandchild of the old hag that run the inn. But If the grandmother disowns her daughter, then it most likely that she wont like the her grandchild at all. And for the record, not all people have that same reaction but on average and Asian wise, that is most likely the case. It is irrelevant to whether Ohana hates her mother or not. She still is a horrible mother given what has been shown.

[ZODDGUTS]

Didn't she also call her mother worthless in ep 1? She also was rather happy that she was getting away from her mother to go to live another place away from her mother. Goes to show how much of a mess and a stress her mother was to Ohana. Feel bad for her having a mom like that.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by felix

What’s with all this mom was bad because she sent Ohana to live with her granny? IF she took her with her, Ohana wouldn’t exactly walking the path to anything worthwhile for her. “Disowned” doesn’t mean she’s not her daughter, or Ohana isn’t her granddaughter; it’s just a matter of acknowledgment. Also, given current information, a lot of you are jumping on the “bad parent” wagon far too easily. We saw barely anything. The whole “she cooks and cleans a lot,” doesn’t mean her mother did absolutely nothing. Her mother wasn’t exactly portrayed as a lardass watching Tv all day and forcing Ohana to do the chores. Ohana also doesn’t hate her mother, at all!

Spoiler:

We get more context in the 2nd episode, where her mom had promised to come to school for career day, but skipped out. She then didn't offer so much an apology, instead giving Ohana a lecture about how she shouldn't try to rely on other people (including her mom) because other people are unreliable. Ohana obviously didn't take kindly to her moms attitude, considering what she got for dinner that night. And Ohana theorizing out of the blue about not really being her moms daughter suggests her mom hasn't changed much.

I think you're being a bit to kind to say Ohana has absolutely no ill feelings to her mom. It's not outright loathing, but I'm not sure she holds any feelings of affection towards her. By the end of this series, I'm guessing she'll be closer to her Grandma.

Originally Posted by mysterious

She could just stay with her daughter and let that loser boy friend of her run away from the loan shark for all he can. I dont recall that she cosign the debt with him so they have no reason to run away.

You do know how a loan shark operates, right? A loan shark wouldn't care that you didn't specifically cosign for a loan, only that you were connected closely enough to the individual who owed them money to go after.