Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[aeriolewinters]

The fact is, the last acknowledgement we have of Kira regarding his relationship with Flay is the realization that it was a mistake. So you can't just suddenly interpret his desire to protect as some special hint of love when he has expressed it to different people.

The last ever communication between them was a misunderstanding. In fact, both were ready to move on and start over before the final battle. While Lacus was shoving herself unto Kira...Fllay was trying to set things right with him. It would've been the first step towards reconciliation and rekindling.

Monstert, stop acting like people who 'break up' don't have a chance in hell to make up.

[monster]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Monstert, stop acting like people who 'break up' don't have a chance in hell to make up.

Of course people have a chance to make up, but Kira never expressed anything other than his guilt over hurting her and needing to protect her. Even after Flay's death, Kira never even hinted that he regretted not being able to say that he actually loved her or anything along that line. Instead, he was only saddened that Flay had to die and that he couldn't protect her.

[BladeEntity]

Originally Posted by monster

Of course people have a chance to make up, but Kira never expressed anything other than his guilt over hurting her and needing to protect her. Even after Flay's death, Kira never even hinted that he regretted not being able to say that he actually loved her or anything along that line. Instead, he was only saddened that Flay had to die and that he couldn't protect her.

Completely agree, given the fact that when Kira back on board the Eternal having failed to retrive Fllay, the words Kira uses to describe her was: "she is someone I hurt". Kira thinks he hurt her by using her as comfort and then breaking it off with her. Morever he also failed to keep the promise of protecting her father. IMO the fact that he describes her as someone he has hurt rather than something like she is someone I loved or my ex-girlfriends sums, up how he feels about her. In the state of mind he was in he wouldn't be able to think about what he says in front of whoever it may be. He will probably gives his most honest thoughts on the matter.

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

On the contrary, being with Fllay instead would've made his presence less detectable. Lacus was so involved in back dealings within terminal that It gave away Kira.

Highly unlikely. In the end there is only one place where he can live with Fllay: Orb. So that kind of narrows it down. And we were shown in Destiny that Durandal's intelligence network is supreme. For example he knew the exact location of Kira and Lacus's whereabouts, found the young Canard Pars, knew about the requiem energy cannon, destroy's blueprint even before it was deployed on the battlefield by the EA, etc.. I don't think Kira could have hidden from him for long.

But whats more importent, There is no way Kira would have sat back and watched as Durandal was going after his friends.

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Fact is: Kira staying with Fllay would've made him almost invisible to Durandal, as opposed to being with the Terminal Figurehead and expecting a peaceful life.

He is not a Terminal Figurehead.. Where did you get this from? did I miss something?

[aeriolewinters]

Of course people have a chance to make up, but Kira never expressed anything other than his guilt over hurting her and needing to protect her. Even after Flay's death, Kira never even hinted that he regretted not being able to say that he actually loved her or anything along that line. Instead, he was only saddened that Flay had to die and that he couldn't protect her.

Herein lies the problem with your interpretation. You have not looked into the fact that Kira is not that expressive. And... the fact that He's probably being polite to Lacus, who was talking to him and throwing herself at him. If it had been Milly, Cagalli, etc. he'd be probably livid.

Like I many have said, Fllay's death was nothing more than validating Lacus and Kira's relationship.

[monster]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Herein lies the problem with your interpretation. You have not looked into the fact that Kira is not that expressive.

You do realize that we're talking about SEED here?

And... the fact that He's probably being polite to Lacus, who was talking to him and throwing herself at him. If it had been Milly, Cagalli, etc. he'd be probably livid.

Watch his scene after Flay's death. That was Kira, on his own, immediately after seeing her death. Again, his main source of grief was that Flay had to die and that he failed to protect her, nothing about a missed chance for love.

[BladeEntity]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Herein lies the problem with your interpretation. You have not looked into the fact that Kira is not that expressive. And... the fact that He's probably being polite to Lacus, who was talking to him and throwing herself at him. If it had been Milly, Cagalli, etc. he'd be probably livid.

Like I many have said, Fllay's death was nothing more than validating Lacus and Kira's relationship.

I disagree he is usually expressive when under extreme emotional stress, in such a condition it's easier said then done to be polite.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Herein lies the problem with your interpretation. You have not looked into the fact that Kira is not that expressive. And... the fact that He's probably being polite to Lacus, who was talking to him and throwing herself at him. If it had been Milly, Cagalli, etc. he'd be probably livid.

Honestly, aeriole, monster is arguing with what the characters actually said and what actually happened. Meanwhile, your arguments contain the word “probably” which didn’t do a favor to strengthen your points . Also, the words “the fact that...” and “probably” can rarely match in one sentence.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Like I many have said, Fllay's death was nothing more than validating Lacus and Kira's relationship.

Well I agree with this... Killing Flay would left Kira to choose Lacus...

Question: To whom do you think is Kira closer to when Flay was still alive? Lacus or Flay?


Would Seed's ending be altered if Flay didn't die?

Will Kira still end with Lacus if Flay didn't die?

[aeriolewinters]

Honestly, aeriole, monster is arguing with what the characters actually said and what actually happened.

That doesn't really matter, actually, after all everything concerning Fllay living beyond phase-50 is speculation. We really don't have anything to base it on. People who like the pairing will say positive things, people who don't like it will say that it's impossible given that apparently Kira is drooling for Lacus now.

The Lakers were forecasted to be owning the western conference this season, based on how individual pieces fit together.

but look at how the forecasters failed: this is the same thing with the whole 'Will Kira be back with Fllay if she lived through SEED?' Forecasters will have agendas, it's human nature to have them, and I just am baffled at how monster can say that he likes the pairing, yet has shown everything that he cannot support it , even in a what-if scenario, because of the possibility of things that have happened in the past between them when both are willing to move on from the manipulation. Like I said, it's either monstert is being pretentious and is just saying he likes Fllay and Kira's relationship to win an argument, or he doesn't like the pairing at all.

[n0m@n]

Well about the KiraXLacus and KiraXFllay thing for SEED, the director(Mitsuo Fukuda) talked about that in the official Gundam SEED Destiny book.
In the interview he said at the end of SEED, he wasnt in love with either Lacus or Fllay. And until Destiny began, Kira was emotionally hurt about the fact he couldnt save Fllay. Lacus was also sad about how Kira was in that state.
http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E5%85%AC%E5...A0SEED+DESTINY
The link above has the book Im talking about.
So if Fllay did survive, its hard to say whether he would have chose Fllay over Lacus or the opposite. Instead, there was a chance that he picked neither of them. Like I said before, Kira started develop feelings for Lacus after SEED when he was going through rough times.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by n0m@n

And until Destiny began, .........

I pity Lacus for falling inlove with Kira....

[aeriolewinters]

Kira was emotionally hurt about the fact he couldnt save Fllay. Lacus was also sad about how Kira was in that state.

Which played a big role on whether Kira was going to pilot the Freedom again in the first place; the exact words Kira utters at the face of Lacus being reluctant to give him the keys was that he wouldn't be able to live if he didn't protect her; which all but say one thing: Kira was still emotionally out during episodes 8-12 of Destiny: This is also most probably was the reason why Kira was always in the Orb Memorial. The fact that Kira is acting desperately so that he won't lose another one, is proof enough to support this statement:

Like many, including me, have said, Fllay's death was nothing more than validating Lacus and Kira's relationship.

[monster]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

That doesn't really matter, actually, after all everything concerning Fllay living beyond phase-50 is speculation. We really don't have anything to base it on.

We have the things that happened within the series to based our speculations on.

I just am baffled at how monster can say that he likes the pairing, yet has shown everything that he cannot support it,

What is so baffling? There's a difference between wanting something to have happened and thinking something would happen.

even in a what-if scenario, because of the possibility of things that have happened in the past between them when both are willing to move on from the manipulation.

It is because of the things that have happened in the past between them that I don't see them getting back together as lovers.

Even in a what-if scenario, you still can't ignore what we are shown regarding the characters. What Kira said after Flay's death was consistent with what he said in phase 44 while inside Freedom, before Flay's death.

Does the possibility still exist? Sure, but that's a useless statistic. A what-if scenario works best when you limit the number of what-ifs (preferably to just one). Otherwise, anything is possible. Kira and Flay could get married and then divorced after having one kid, etc., etc.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

I pity Lacus for falling in love with Kira....

Well, if it were up to me, Lacus should pair up with Dacosta who has worked for her like a slave . He’s good looking, hard-working, well-trained military coordinator, strong, and smart, even though a bit naive. He’s perfect for her . So yeah, I'd really like to see Dacosta earned his price for his hardwork all this time XP.

[NoemiChan]

He's too old and blind....

[n0m@n]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

He's too old and blind....

Lol, true.
I wanted Yzak to get a girl. He was like one of the few people who didnt have any interactions with a girl. Except for the kiss he got from his mother in SEED...

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

He's too old and blind....

Originally Posted by n0m@n

Lol, true.

Umm...I’m talking about Martin Dacosta, this dude:



Not the blind Marchio.

Check your facts first before criticizing one’s opinion .

Originally Posted by n0m@n

I wanted Yzak to get a girl. He was like one of the few people who didnt have any interactions with a girl. Except for the kiss he got from his mother in SEED...

Yzak already has this hot-babe waiting for him :

Images

Closer look

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Her name is Shiho Hahnenfuss.

[BladeEntity]

Spoiler for Large:

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Umm...I’m talking about Martin Dacosta, this dude:



Not the blind Marchio.

Check your facts first before criticizing one’s opinion .

Yzak already has this hot-babe waiting for him :

Images

Closer look

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Her name is Shiho Hahnenfuss.

Lol It seems you were right considering Dacosta he isn't even remembered.

On that note we will get to see some tease with Shiho again with her in the picture during the remaster just never saying a word.

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Well, if it were up to me, Lacus should pair up with Dacosta who has worked for her like a slave . He’s good looking, hard-working, well-trained military coordinator, strong, and smart, even though a bit naive. He’s perfect for her . So yeah, I'd really like to see Dacosta earned his price for his hardwork all this time XP.

hmmm.. This sounds like a scenario from an H-manga.