Sakurasou - Character Discussion - Shiina Mashiro

[Ganondox]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Yes, because I was even worse than Mashiro when I was young.

Yeah, when you were YOUNG. She's not young. I'm going to frank, you're being a freaking baka. As someone with a background in abnormal psychology, it's apparent that she a mental disability, there is no argument there. She CANNOT function on her own, and impairment of function is the defining aspect of mental disability. One can be autistic and live completely independently, but she's not even at that point. I find it extremely ironic that you said that you think most people say she's autistic because they know nothing about autism when it's extremely obvious YOU know nothing about autism. Yes, autism very much can make someone good at art, it's associated with strong visual skills in some individuals, and savant skills are closely associated with autism. She's pretty much a textbook case of an autistic savant. Dunning-Krugar much? The fact is, merely being sheltered does not cause some to act the way she acts. While there are other potential explanations for her behavior, Occam's Razor says she's autistic as it best explains all her quirks, you're the one whose theory needs extra assumptions. The only reason you're dismissing that explanation is because you're ableist, it's clear you think autistic people are inferior and because you like the character it would be degrading if she was such. I'm disgusted by your attitude.

Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher

I find it really interesting that some people here think she is autistic, but they ignore that no one in this anime is thinking like that and that no one in this anime has ever used this term to describe her like that.
So I can only see this autism issue, that was never mentioned in this story so far, as an over-interpretation of some people.


What I read a couple of times already and what annoys me is that some people used this term, autistic, to insult/bash her character as a retarded girl.

"I find it really interesting that some people here think she is autistic, but they ignore that no one in this anime is thinking like that and that no one in this anime has ever used this term to describe her like that." And why would they? Unless they're experts in diagnosing mental disorders, they're not going to be able apply a label to her, they're just going to see that she's "eccentric", and some notice she can't take care of herself. The fact is IRL you don't have thousands of people collectively analysing you with the aid of the internet, even if someone is obviously autistic doesn't mean those who know them personally know autism well enough to recognize. They're only going to discuss her autism (assuming she is autistic) if she's diagnosed AND they know about her diagnosis. The fact is, girls are far less likely to diagnosed with autism even if they are visibly autistic because of gender bias, and even if she is diagnosed it's unlikely that her peers would know as realistically it's just not something peers know. It's not like autistic people walk around with cards saying "I'm autistic" (okay, some actually do, but they aren't likely to show it to you unless you're like a policeman or something). So most likely they would act like how they act in the show, it's implied they know there is something up with her, but they wouldn't out her as autistic.

Also, I don't know where you are getting the idea people are calling her autistic to imply that she's retarded. Autism != retardation, and if anything explaining her as being autistic would explain how she ISN'T retarded. People are really just observing what they're seeing. Again, she's a textbook case of moderate autism. Not severe autism, not mild autism, moderate autism. Not only have a worked with mildly and moderately autistic adolescents, but I've read the textbooks, so I'd know. She's not the image of a savant by someone who just made a girl genius yet incompetent, but the image of a realistic autistic savant. Yeah, people do use autistic as synonym for retarded as an insult, but I don't see that being done for character like her, and the fact people do use it as an insult like that reflects the same cultural ableism demonstrated by Sumeragi and even you for assuming it's being used as an insult.

Originally Posted by totoum

I think there's just an issue of people having different notions of what autism is, see this article.



The bolded part just seems to correspond to the debate around Shiina.

The one thing I'm convinced of is that the author didn't think to himself "I'm going to write an autistic character".

The article is correct in that the reason autism rates has gone up is because of the broadening of it's scope (as well as more awareness of the disorder in general), but most the milder cases still demonstrate impaired functioning that is best explained by the expanded scope of autism, so it's not an overdiagnosis. With Mashiro, it's obvious she is disabled, so that's not an issue. Her autism isn't mild, she's just "high-functioning". It's worth noting that the children that Kanner originally described were higher functioning than many of the children diagnosed today, so it's actually expanded both ways.

Yeah, I doubt he thought "I'm going to write an autistic character", but it seems pretty obvious she was written to be a savant, given the whole concept of the series for whatnot, and it appears he did some research on savants and gave her various autistic traits in order to make her more realistic.