Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Character Creation and Discussion (second reincarnation)

[Comartemis]

I came up with a solution to the Hayate shafting while I was working with Kagerou and I thought I'd share it.

Stop me if you've heard this one before:

Originally Posted by Comartemis

However even if you don't go back and retcon Hayate's weakness, there's no reason you can't use it to your advantage. Think of Hayate's "too much magic" problem as similar to Naruto's "too much chakra" problem and overcome it in the same way; by making careful use of superpowered spells that don't require a whole lot of control (Kage Bunshin as opposed to regular bunshins) and in fact depend on having a lot of magic available. This is why I think Hayate would do well as a melee-oriented mage rather than a ranged fighter like Nanoha; her ranged spells will no doubt acquire large areas of effect (assuming she can even make something small and control-intensive like an Axel Shooter) and possibly endanger her allies in skirmishes like the aerial battle outside the Saint's Cradle, but her magic-enhanced melee spells will only hit that much harder if she supercharges them with more magic than they need, and her shields--particularly the Aura-class defensive spells which look kind of like you just flood your immediate surroundings with magic.--could match or exceed Yuuno's in pure defensive power if she puts her usual amount of power into them.

[Kyral]

*looks at more high-res scan of StrikerS CD*

WhatwhatwhatwhatWHATWHATWHAT!?!?!?



Oi Scarface! My character was first!!

lulz

(And Caro with long hair is: )


Anyway... here is my "Movie Version" Elric

Spoiler for Elric Thron in Movie Barrier Jacket:

[Tormenk]

Originally Posted by Kha

@Thread: I recall mentioning in the IRC thread that the Tome of Devotion's (in 5th Ed is renamed Tome of Daylight, using the nomenclature set by the Night Sky) role in the Pilgrim Duels, along with the other 2 books Night Sky and Twin Moons, was to record the Linker Core of the winning Hero and grant his wish, strengthening the Light within the book and showering blessings upon the mortal realm. Daylight recorded an image of the victor's device. Images that Kha draws upon in his Traces during the last quarter of Cente Gravia, when he attains the Tome and pursues Kluize.

As I was reading Negima...

Spoiler for The Sarcastic Librarian:

...it seems that Ken Akamatsu agrees to that logic, to a certain extent.

This just reminded me of something similar I had in mind before, namely for the Storyteller OC I have been building with a similar concept highlighted here.

Thanks for the reminder Kha.

Originally Posted by dkellis

Spoiler for random:

Teana was sitting despondently in an island of solitude, uncaring of the bustle of aftermath that swarmed around the area.

Fate touched her shoulder gently. "Teana."

"I'm sorry about all of this, Fate," Teana mumbled.

"It's not your fault. We'll get her next time." Fate glanced at a particularly secretive clump of medtechs close to an unmarked van. "Is Subaru..."

"They said she'll be all right. She just needs some recalibration of her... her parts." Teana stood with some difficulty; Fate moved in to support her, but the younger girl shook her head, refusing the help. "Three of us here, and we couldn't stop a single fugitive from escaping."

"Not quite single," Fate corrected. "From Ginga's report, Sein was also helping Lowell. The trace isn't going very well, I'm afraid."

Teana leaned against the wall. "I'll be fine in a moment. There's probably a hundred more things more important for you to take care of than waiting for me to recover."

Fate looked uncertain. "Is there anything I can get you?"

"Answers would be nice," Teana muttered. "And some mouthwash."

"What was that?"

"Nothing." Teana tried to smile in what was theoretically a reassuring manner. "I'll be right here if you need me."

Fate picked her way through the wreckage. The local police had done a good job of keeping the ubiquitous reporters away from ground zero, citing emergency medical assistance for the unfortunate civilians caught in the battle. The last sonic bomb blast had temporarily deafened some, although full recoveries were expected. Shards of broken glass and the general chaos of crowd panic had done for the rest. No fatalities, and the most serious civilian casualty had been a broken arm. For an Over-S criminal threat, the injury list this time around had been surprisingly low. The brunt of the damage had been directed at the TSAB personnel, who were best able to withstand it.

There was a woman staring blankly at the ruins of the cafe where the fight had broken out. Fate blinked, as she tried to recall where she had seen her before; something about an old mission, a former partner or some such, except...

Oh, right.

"Mina!" Fate called out. "Mina, what are you doing here?"

Lumina Celeste, the Unyielding Ace, the Blade Breaker, the Mountain Cleaver, and freelance TSAB-affiliated contract mage, made no response.

Fate hesitated. "Mina?"

"Pray do not startle her," a deep voice emanated from the Device at Lumina's wrist. "She is in a very delicate state of mind at the moment."

Memory flipped a card. "Oh, hallo, Cyrus. What do you mean by 'delicate state of mind'?"

"They trashed my cafe," Lumina mumbled.

"Um," Fate said. "Yes, yes they did."

"I was out visiting my family for a few days, and they trashed my cafe."

"My sympathies."

"Now I'm not going to be able to show off my new waitress outfit, because they trashed my cafe."

Fate tried to think of an appropriate response to this. "I'm sorry?"

"This... this..." Lumina trembled in indignation. "This, this travesty, this utter disregard for the feelings and aspirations of others, this shall not stand! I will not have it! JUSTICE will be done, this I swear!"

"Oh dear," Cyrus said, approximating a remarkably convincing sigh despite not actually having any lungs. "If my recollection does not deceive me, you have worked with Milady before, Enforcer?"

"Yes, Mina was partnered with me for a mission once," Fate said, staring at the ranting young woman. "I don't remember her being so... dramatic."

"It comes and goes," Cyrus said sagely. "Mostly comes, these days."

"Mina!" A young man clambered over to Lumina's side. "Mina, I'm so glad you're here!"

"Thomas!" Lumina threw herself into the man's arms. "Look what they've done to our cafe!"

Thomas looked startled by the sudden addition of a theatrically sobbing woman in his arms, but he recovered somewhat when he saw Fate. "Um, good afternoon, Enforcer. Thomas Montero, proprieter of the, um, the recently-destroyed cafe."

Fate saluted. "Enforcer Agent Fate T. Harlaown. The Time-Space Administration Bureau will reimburse you for your losses, if you present an itemized list of-"

"Reimbursement is irrelevant!" Lumina interrupted. "It's also insufficient. What of the damages to our hearts, to our hopes and dreams? Oh woe, oh sorrow, oh despair..."

"Mina, it's not that bad," Thomas said. "The building's still standing, and we can replace everything, even without outside help. It'll take us maybe a week to get back up and running to full capacity, if even that long."

"The TSAB will-" Fate tried again.

"But we shall be strong!" Lumina exclaimed. She leapt up onto a lightpost, which creaked alarmingly under her weight. "We shall not let this tragedy bow our heads, but we shall use it to strengthen our resolve to administer Justice to the Evil that dares to strike at us!"

Thomas looked apologetically at Fate. "She's impossible to stop once she gets going."

"I've noticed."

"Have at thee, foul knave, villain, and rogue!" Lumina pointed dramatically. "I swear upon the Memory of the man whose livelihood you have just destroyed in your wanton rampage that I, Lumina Celeste, shall bring you to Justice!"

"I'm not dead yet," Thomas protested.

"For there is nothing greater than Justice in this Eternity, and you, Wicked and Unwholesome as you are, shall be as Nothing to the Virtue and Valour of our Just Cause! I refute thee and all thy works! Flee, flee as far as you can, and Know Ye that there will be a Reckoning, a Judgement so dire that the heavens themselves shall Tremble to hear, as I, Lumina Celeste, will Smite you down with my Power and Allies!" She shifted her finger to Fate. "Indeed, the Might of the TSAB is behind me, in the Person of Enforcer Fate T. Harlaown!"

Fate blinked. "Me?"

"Come, Fate, join me in my Quest to rid the dimensions of the Evil that has crawled out of its lair, this knife in the dark, this dark cloud on a moonless night, this wight, this ogre, this changeling! Together, we shall carry forth the Cause of Righteousness to All! For Justice!" She leapt from her perch.

Fate took an involuntary step backwards.

After the dust cleared, Lumina sat up from her botched landing, and managed, "That was mean, Fate."

"I'm sorry, it was just so sudden... are you all right?"

"Oh, this? It's nothing. I'm used to it."

"Yes, she is," Cyrus said drily.

"So!" Lumina shot to her feet. "What's our next move, Fate? How shall we deliver Justice to this fiend?"

"Um." Fate covered her mouth briefly, before composing her features into a professional mask. "I think we'd better brief you on our target first."

"Very well! Thomas, be not afraid, for I shall avenge you!"

"Like I said," Thomas mumbled weakly, "I'm not dead yet..."

But Lumina was already marching off towards Ginga and Teana. Fate shook her head in disbelief, and hurried after her.

Quite the drama-queen side of Lumina. Nicely brought out here. (^^b)

Originally Posted by Liingo

@Tormenk:
You were right, it was random. But I see alot of sentences that you could use with Katrina and the like.

Hope you get out of the fic writing slump!

It's mixed up rather evenly to focus on the Aces and mostly OCs, like Keroko and Aurion and Katrina, along with Jec.

Haven decide how the events would occur, or to connect them together..frankly the difficulty in deciding how to approach writing is probably the greatest roadblock I encounter frequently.

Though it doesn't help I'm busy with work most of the time.

Originally Posted by Kyral

Aaaaaaaallright, minna-saaaan!

Thanks to Liingos( ) awsome help with my grammar, I'm now able to present you my next chapter in terms of bloody history and Elric/Rinya goodness... (or something like that xD)

Memories of Blood and Sorrow
Part 6: Her circumstances.

Spoiler:

[Somewhere in Midchilda Capital] [November, MC 074]

Rain was falling. Dark clouds blocking the sun, painting the world in grey. He was sitting on the ground of a backstreet. His back leaned on the wall, with drawn-in knees, the crossed arms resting on them. It was cold, but he didn’t shake. He didn't move one muscle at all. Even though his ripped coat was drenched and cold rainwater was running into his collar and dripping from the tip of his nose.
He was just sitting there; waiting for something. Something he didn't even know about.
He had been evading the TSAB search parties for too long. He never should have come back to Midchilda. Midran and his squad were not the last ones. Since he had come here, all that he was doing was to hurt, to kill, old comrades and soldiers he had never seen before alike.
And it was not even himself that wanted to kill.
His body was not his own anymore.
His mind was not his own anymore.
His heart was not his own anymore.

He could feel them right now, the alien thoughts that were whispering in his mind. Impossible to translate into human thoughts, but he knew they were analytical and cold. They were the thoughts of the abomination that infested his arm and took over his soul.

Something changed. The sound of raindrops falling on wet concrete was replaced by the sound of raindrops falling on synthetic fabric. Slowly he looked up with his bloodshot eyes. He was not curious. He didn’t care. He would not be surprised if he would look at the tip of a Device that would blow his head away. On the contrary, it would be the final salvation ke knew he didn't deserve.

But there was no Device. There was not even a Member of the Bureau. Behind his drenched long wisps his eyes saw the face of a young girl holding an umbrella. The girl with somewhat messy blue hair looked at him with a strange mixture of caution and curiosity in her eyes.

“Excuse me, are you alright Mister?” Her curiosity must have won. Her voice was silent, but without hesitation.

Elric moved his dry, torn lips. “Yes, I am...” His voice sounded raspy, he couldn’t even remember anymore the last time he spoke.

“You don’t look that way…” the girl said, stating the obvious.

“But really I am.” Elric lied and forced a smile on his face. “I’m just waiting for a friend. He is a little late but he will definitely show up soon.”

The girl was clever and she had the wisdom that children possess on her side. She saw through the lie as soon it left his mouth. “You need help…” she ultimately decided. “Don’t worry! Mum and Dad are both officers in the TSAB, I’m sure they can help you!”

She turned around and started to run down the backstreet. Elric looked at the bright umbrella that covered most of her back. He didn’t care. She will bring someone here. They will find him now. He didn’t care.

But there was something inside him that did care. It was like so often. He felt his own thoughts overwritten by something else. The solution was simple actually. If local residents would inform TSAB, his mission was in danger. The noncombatant must be silenced to increase the probability of the most favorable outcome.
Before Elric could realize, he was already standing and pointing his right arm down the street.
”NO!” he screamed in his mind.

A red flash lit the street.
Water hissed as energy vaporized raindrops.
A small body crashed to the ground.
The rain was falling.

“No… no… Sankt Kaiser… no!” Elric tumbled backwards.
Lying on the stomach, the girl did not move. A smoking, now useless umbrella was lying beside her. Her blue hair getting darker as it was soaked in bloody rainwater. Elric thought his heart would burst any moment. He had thought that he had reached rock bottom already, but it was only getting worse. His vision became blurred. The liquid that ran down his face now tasted salty.
Elric sobbed.
He sobbed again and again and again. The sobbing came more frequently now..
As it was no sobbing, it was laughter. With tears running down his face, Elric Thorn was laughing.
There was no humor in this sound, nor was it the evil laughter of a villain in triumph. This laughter was born out of deepest sadness and hopelessness.

And then the girl moved. A small groan came out of her throat as she clenched her right shoulder.
The laughter died in an instant. Elric could see the wound now. The energy bolt only grazed her. She was alive.
Elric did not know if it was because the umbrella hid most of her small body, if his mental scream caused the aim to shift slightly or if the cursed Device decided that only wounding her would be enough, but she was alive.

In irony Elric thought that this girl would probably never approach a stranger again.
The Girl lifted her head. The left side of her face was covered in blood from her hard hit on the ground and partially from the bloody water she was lying in. She was brave enough to not show anything from the pain the felt.

And then she opened her eyes and looked at him.

For an instant, Elric forgot how to breathe. Her eyes showed neither hostility nor fear, neither warmth nor cold. She just looked at him with clear eyes.

Elric made one step backwards.

It was not his ripped clothing or his wild, uncut hair she looked at.

He made another step.

It was not the black Device that had formed around his right forearm she looked at.

He turned around.

It was him. She looked at him and she saw what he was.

Elric started running.

She saw his bloodstained self. She saw his soul clenched by black metal.

Water splashed around his running feet.

She saw his weak self that lost against the dark Device.

It was more than anyone could bear. The last straw…

And something broke inside of Elric Thorn.


==========


[TSAB Dimensional Patrol Cruiser - Auriga, canteen] [May, MC 076]

Elric rubbed his temples to drive away the dull, thumping pain in his head. It’s been a while since he recalled this particular encounter in his dreams. It was one of the most disturbing memories he had, but he was certain it wouldn't be the last time his memories would haunt him. The psychologists told him he would recall these past events for the rest of his life.

A groan from the other side of the table caught his attention. Rinya, who was sitting opposite of Elric, was resting her head on the top of the table.

“I can’t believe it…” she mourned. “…I’m dimensional sick.”

“No you are not…” Elric commented without stopping to rub his temples. “It’s standard gravity. There is no such thing as dimensional sickness. It’s just something psychological.”

Rinya didn’t respond so he continued after a while. “How about I get you something to eat? Maybe you’ll feel better with a full stomach.”

Rinya turned her pale face a little to look at him helplessly and spoke with a weak voice: “Do you want to finish me off?”

Elric let out a sigh and leaned backwards. “I wonder how you managed it to Mid.”

“It was a direct flight with a civilian shuttle. I slept most of the time.” The answer came after a short moment.

Rinya's symptoms had slowly gotten worse the more she realized she was off planet. Apart from dizziness and slight nausea she was fine, a reason why she didn't want to lie down in her room or the sickbay.

“Ah, there you are.” A new voice joined the conversation and the blond man sat down aside Rinya.

“Good morning, Captain.” Elric saluted Jorin Fafnir and pinched the spot between his eyes after that.

“Headache?” the Admiral asked and put down a glass of water in front of Rinya.

“Nothing I can’t manage, Sir.” Elric leaned forward again. Jorin, at the same time, ripped open a small white bag and started to pour the containing white powder into the water. “Here, Shuri-san, I got you something from the sickbay for your stomach.”

After Rinya answered only with a grunt, Jorin grabbed her shoulders and pulled her up. “I always thought that it was a joke between travelers. I never imagined I would meet a person that actually gets dimensional sick.”

“It’s just psychological.” Rinya silently answered and fought weakly against the arms that tried to pull her up.

“You will drink this now, Shuri-san. That’s an order!” Jorin said strictly but with warmth in his voice. “Come on, I’ll help you.”

“Yes Sir.” Rinya said and reached for the glass.

While he supported Rinya with one of his arms, Jorin helped her lift the glass to her mouth. “Drink slowly.” He said.

Watching both in silence, Elric suddenly caught himself glaring at Jorin. He shook his head and closed his eyes for a moment. ”Must be this damn headache…”

“So, you two are already two days on board of the [I]Auriga[/].”Jorin suddenly started, causing Elric to open his eyes again and look at the speaker who continued. “Apart from the current problems, is the journey comfortable enough for both of you?”

Elric looked to Rinya, who had her elbows on the table, supporting her head with her hands. She didn’t looked like she was going to answer, but at least she was sitting upright now.

Elric answered: “Yes it is. Thank you, Sir. But I don’t quite understand why you ask. It’s not like we are on a holiday.”

Jorin smiled warm. “I’m proud of my ship, Thorn-san. And even though you both are on a mission, you are guests on this ship, so the least thing I can do is to make your work as comfortable as possible. I know how hard it can be if you just sit around and wait for something to happen.”

Elric returned the smile slightly. “I’m grateful, Sir.” Rinya managed a little nod.

“Of course I’m also here to tell you that your medical checkup and Device maintenance is scheduled for tomorrow at 1500, Thorn-san.” Jorin stretched his back a little and stood.

Elric let out a little sigh. “Yes Sir, Thank you, Sir.”

Jorin chuckled. “Well if you two need me, you’ll find me on the bridge.”

With a final nod at his two guests, the captain left the canteen.

“You’re having medical checkups and Device maintenance at the same time?” Rinya asked and rested her head back on top of the table.

“Pretty much. As I’m unable to take of Carnage, they thought it would be less boring for me to be checked at the same time.”

“Well…” Rinya let out a small chuckle while smiling weakly. “…sucks to be you.”

Well... that's it...
Next time I will post my Movie Version of Elrics BJ.

Byebye!

*runs but is glomped by Cadia-tan befor he can escape*

Urks~!

Favorable outcome seems to be a deadly catchphrase around Carnage.

I'm liking the direction you have taken for Elric's (eventual) downward path. Simple and effective.

Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw

The best kind of spell! One developed by master mages for "Extremely Dangerous Offensive Attacks"... Just like the Legendary Anything-Goes martial arts techniques of the martial arts master Happosai. Of course, the only spell more important will be the one that allows the user to 'safely recover' the 'Special Protective Garments' of an active female mage in live combat.



Remember... Just as Happy would say. The Pervasive (SEE: Perverted) Magic System (PMS) is an important and powerful set of combat magics that is a highly respected magical art known to a minute few.

Hence forth, let the birth of the peaceful movement of disarming magic take flight.

Originally Posted by Estavali

Kagerou's new work => Outer Cadia: The Movie? =3

That sounds awesomely epic straight off the bat. >=3

[Kagerou]

Originally Posted by Liingo

@Kagerou:
Re: Zirnitra
While I get how Phantom Assasin would lead to a person's death, how exactly does Nightmare lead to the same result. Ie someone's worse nightmare may be on their partner dieing, while in another case it is their own death.

Also, on these 2 spells, time period to death? I'd assume it's not an instant thing but more of they're so immersed in the illusion that they don't eat/sleep/etc and thus die in X days.

These spells have been patched, actually. Instead of rendering a person dead, it simply knocks them out. The fear/shock factor is enough to render them unconscious.

Originally Posted by Liingo

On Misleading Image, I'd be bumping the drain up to AA or AAA (mainly due to the speed at which it occurs)

AA perhaps, then.

Originally Posted by Liingo

Re: Karewit
You'll have to check with Kha with this since I'm not sure myself what happens to the body when one is dead, but the Rez spell isn't exactly one that fits with canon. I wouldn't be having the spell work after much more than a few minutes (dead) , not to mention that if the spell works (and even if it doesn't) that she should be bed ridden for a few days at least.

To be honest, the way I see it is that the spell should be feasible. We have medical technology in real life that can literally bring someone back from the dead, so I don't see how magic would be unable to achieve the same thing.

That said, this isn't super-magic; there are factors that must be in place. For starters, the body must be whole - there can't be any missing vital organs or body parts. Secondly, the nature of the death must be put into consideration; if you die from old age, rez is impossible; death by a gunshot wound, then yes, it's possible.

Finally, consider that this is essentially her "Limit Break" spell. As such, it requires a shitload of mana to cast; think of it as using 105% of her mana. And you're right; after using this spell she's out of commission for a while, thus it's only used in the most dire of circumstances where a certain person dying is simply not an option.

tl;dr: If they can bring Zest back then dammnit I can make someone who can rez

Originally Posted by Liingo

The background and history of the black order and it's members is looking to be awesome in scope, but there's still some things to be adressed.

Indeed. Hence why I'm getting the help of members across the thread.

[Kha]

@Kyral: That's called Synchro. Like how Erio almost completely matched Kha when he was a kid.

Originally Posted by dkellis

Spoiler for random:

Teana was sitting despondently in an island of solitude, uncaring of the bustle of aftermath that swarmed around the area.

Fate touched her shoulder gently. "Teana."

"I'm sorry about all of this, Fate," Teana mumbled.

"It's not your fault. We'll get her next time." Fate glanced at a particularly secretive clump of medtechs close to an unmarked van. "Is Subaru..."

"They said she'll be all right. She just needs some recalibration of her... her parts." Teana stood with some difficulty; Fate moved in to support her, but the younger girl shook her head, refusing the help. "Three of us here, and we couldn't stop a single fugitive from escaping."

"Not quite single," Fate corrected. "From Ginga's report, Sein was also helping Lowell. The trace isn't going very well, I'm afraid."

Teana leaned against the wall. "I'll be fine in a moment. There's probably a hundred more things more important for you to take care of than waiting for me to recover."

Fate looked uncertain. "Is there anything I can get you?"

"Answers would be nice," Teana muttered. "And some mouthwash."

"What was that?"

"Nothing." Teana tried to smile in what was theoretically a reassuring manner. "I'll be right here if you need me."

Fate picked her way through the wreckage. The local police had done a good job of keeping the ubiquitous reporters away from ground zero, citing emergency medical assistance for the unfortunate civilians caught in the battle. The last sonic bomb blast had temporarily deafened some, although full recoveries were expected. Shards of broken glass and the general chaos of crowd panic had done for the rest. No fatalities, and the most serious civilian casualty had been a broken arm. For an Over-S criminal threat, the injury list this time around had been surprisingly low. The brunt of the damage had been directed at the TSAB personnel, who were best able to withstand it.

There was a woman staring blankly at the ruins of the cafe where the fight had broken out. Fate blinked, as she tried to recall where she had seen her before; something about an old mission, a former partner or some such, except...

Oh, right.

"Mina!" Fate called out. "Mina, what are you doing here?"

Lumina Celeste, the Unyielding Ace, the Blade Breaker, the Mountain Cleaver, and freelance TSAB-affiliated contract mage, made no response.

Fate hesitated. "Mina?"

"Pray do not startle her," a deep voice emanated from the Device at Lumina's wrist. "She is in a very delicate state of mind at the moment."

Memory flipped a card. "Oh, hallo, Cyrus. What do you mean by 'delicate state of mind'?"

"They trashed my cafe," Lumina mumbled.

"Um," Fate said. "Yes, yes they did."

"I was out visiting my family for a few days, and they trashed my cafe."

"My sympathies."

"Now I'm not going to be able to show off my new waitress outfit, because they trashed my cafe."

Fate tried to think of an appropriate response to this. "I'm sorry?"

"This... this..." Lumina trembled in indignation. "This, this travesty, this utter disregard for the feelings and aspirations of others, this shall not stand! I will not have it! JUSTICE will be done, this I swear!"

"Oh dear," Cyrus said, approximating a remarkably convincing sigh despite not actually having any lungs. "If my recollection does not deceive me, you have worked with Milady before, Enforcer?"

"Yes, Mina was partnered with me for a mission once," Fate said, staring at the ranting young woman. "I don't remember her being so... dramatic."

"It comes and goes," Cyrus said sagely. "Mostly comes, these days."

"Mina!" A young man clambered over to Lumina's side. "Mina, I'm so glad you're here!"

"Thomas!" Lumina threw herself into the man's arms. "Look what they've done to our cafe!"

Thomas looked startled by the sudden addition of a theatrically sobbing woman in his arms, but he recovered somewhat when he saw Fate. "Um, good afternoon, Enforcer. Thomas Montero, proprieter of the, um, the recently-destroyed cafe."

Fate saluted. "Enforcer Agent Fate T. Harlaown. The Time-Space Administration Bureau will reimburse you for your losses, if you present an itemized list of-"

"Reimbursement is irrelevant!" Lumina interrupted. "It's also insufficient. What of the damages to our hearts, to our hopes and dreams? Oh woe, oh sorrow, oh despair..."

"Mina, it's not that bad," Thomas said. "The building's still standing, and we can replace everything, even without outside help. It'll take us maybe a week to get back up and running to full capacity, if even that long."

"The TSAB will-" Fate tried again.

"But we shall be strong!" Lumina exclaimed. She leapt up onto a lightpost, which creaked alarmingly under her weight. "We shall not let this tragedy bow our heads, but we shall use it to strengthen our resolve to administer Justice to the Evil that dares to strike at us!"

Thomas looked apologetically at Fate. "She's impossible to stop once she gets going."

"I've noticed."

"Have at thee, foul knave, villain, and rogue!" Lumina pointed dramatically. "I swear upon the Memory of the man whose livelihood you have just destroyed in your wanton rampage that I, Lumina Celeste, shall bring you to Justice!"

"I'm not dead yet," Thomas protested.

"For there is nothing greater than Justice in this Eternity, and you, Wicked and Unwholesome as you are, shall be as Nothing to the Virtue and Valour of our Just Cause! I refute thee and all thy works! Flee, flee as far as you can, and Know Ye that there will be a Reckoning, a Judgement so dire that the heavens themselves shall Tremble to hear, as I, Lumina Celeste, will Smite you down with my Power and Allies!" She shifted her finger to Fate. "Indeed, the Might of the TSAB is behind me, in the Person of Enforcer Fate T. Harlaown!"

Fate blinked. "Me?"

"Come, Fate, join me in my Quest to rid the dimensions of the Evil that has crawled out of its lair, this knife in the dark, this dark cloud on a moonless night, this wight, this ogre, this changeling! Together, we shall carry forth the Cause of Righteousness to All! For Justice!" She leapt from her perch.

Fate took an involuntary step backwards.

After the dust cleared, Lumina sat up from her botched landing, and managed, "That was mean, Fate."

"I'm sorry, it was just so sudden... are you all right?"

"Oh, this? It's nothing. I'm used to it."

"Yes, she is," Cyrus said drily.

"So!" Lumina shot to her feet. "What's our next move, Fate? How shall we deliver Justice to this fiend?"

"Um." Fate covered her mouth briefly, before composing her features into a professional mask. "I think we'd better brief you on our target first."

"Very well! Thomas, be not afraid, for I shall avenge you!"

"Like I said," Thomas mumbled weakly, "I'm not dead yet..."

But Lumina was already marching off towards Ginga and Teana. Fate shook her head in disbelief, and hurried after her.

I swear I saw Amelia, Gourry, and Lina there. Half expected someone from TSAB show up and say "I'm Inspector Wiser Flayon of Ruvingald. ".

Originally Posted by Liingo

Re: Karewit
You'll have to check with Kha with this since I'm not sure myself what happens to the body when one is dead, but the Rez spell isn't exactly one that fits with canon. I wouldn't be having the spell work after much more than a few minutes (dead) , not to mention that if the spell works (and even if it doesn't) that she should be bed ridden for a few days at least.

The background and history of the black order and it's members is looking to be awesome in scope, but there's still some things to be adressed.

Current clinical techniques and machinery can revive people who have flatlined for 1 hour, with a 50% success rate. While I believe the same rule applies to magic, since its dependent on how much metabolic poison the body can take while flatlining without suffering permanent damage rather than how powerful is the resurrection spell, I also advocate that a magically strengthened body can last longer, meaning magical healers have a longer "Golden Hour" to work with. Just add a time limit to the time of death (6 hours at room temperature is about the maximum IMO ), and have some side-effects, you should do fine.

As for whether there's permanent damage, revival after 6hrs should show something brain damage. No idea if Midchilda medicine can reverse that. Technically, the skies the limit here; The limits I place here and there are roughly based off injecting the dream tools that a medical practitioner drools about into a magical realm to push the limits of human survival to the max; with proper justification, it should work.

Originally Posted by Kyral

Aaaaaaaallright, minna-saaaan!

Thanks to Liingos( ) awsome help with my grammar, I'm now able to present you my next chapter in terms of bloody history and Elric/Rinya goodness... (or something like that xD)

Memories of Blood and Sorrow
Part 6: Her circumstances.

Spoiler:

[Somewhere in Midchilda Capital] [November, MC 074]

Rain was falling. Dark clouds blocking the sun, painting the world in grey. He was sitting on the ground of a backstreet. His back leaned on the wall, with drawn-in knees, the crossed arms resting on them. It was cold, but he didn’t shake. He didn't move one muscle at all. Even though his ripped coat was drenched and cold rainwater was running into his collar and dripping from the tip of his nose.
He was just sitting there; waiting for something. Something he didn't even know about.
He had been evading the TSAB search parties for too long. He never should have come back to Midchilda. Midran and his squad were not the last ones. Since he had come here, all that he was doing was to hurt, to kill, old comrades and soldiers he had never seen before alike.
And it was not even himself that wanted to kill.
His body was not his own anymore.
His mind was not his own anymore.
His heart was not his own anymore.

He could feel them right now, the alien thoughts that were whispering in his mind. Impossible to translate into human thoughts, but he knew they were analytical and cold. They were the thoughts of the abomination that infested his arm and took over his soul.

Something changed. The sound of raindrops falling on wet concrete was replaced by the sound of raindrops falling on synthetic fabric. Slowly he looked up with his bloodshot eyes. He was not curious. He didn’t care. He would not be surprised if he would look at the tip of a Device that would blow his head away. On the contrary, it would be the final salvation ke knew he didn't deserve.

But there was no Device. There was not even a Member of the Bureau. Behind his drenched long wisps his eyes saw the face of a young girl holding an umbrella. The girl with somewhat messy blue hair looked at him with a strange mixture of caution and curiosity in her eyes.

“Excuse me, are you alright Mister?” Her curiosity must have won. Her voice was silent, but without hesitation.

Elric moved his dry, torn lips. “Yes, I am...” His voice sounded raspy, he couldn’t even remember anymore the last time he spoke.

“You don’t look that way…” the girl said, stating the obvious.

“But really I am.” Elric lied and forced a smile on his face. “I’m just waiting for a friend. He is a little late but he will definitely show up soon.”

The girl was clever and she had the wisdom that children possess on her side. She saw through the lie as soon it left his mouth. “You need help…” she ultimately decided. “Don’t worry! Mum and Dad are both officers in the TSAB, I’m sure they can help you!”

She turned around and started to run down the backstreet. Elric looked at the bright umbrella that covered most of her back. He didn’t care. She will bring someone here. They will find him now. He didn’t care.

But there was something inside him that did care. It was like so often. He felt his own thoughts overwritten by something else. The solution was simple actually. If local residents would inform TSAB, his mission was in danger. The noncombatant must be silenced to increase the probability of the most favorable outcome.
Before Elric could realize, he was already standing and pointing his right arm down the street.
”NO!” he screamed in his mind.

A red flash lit the street.
Water hissed as energy vaporized raindrops.
A small body crashed to the ground.
The rain was falling.

“No… no… Sankt Kaiser… no!” Elric tumbled backwards.
Lying on the stomach, the girl did not move. A smoking, now useless umbrella was lying beside her. Her blue hair getting darker as it was soaked in bloody rainwater. Elric thought his heart would burst any moment. He had thought that he had reached rock bottom already, but it was only getting worse. His vision became blurred. The liquid that ran down his face now tasted salty.
Elric sobbed.
He sobbed again and again and again. The sobbing came more frequently now..
As it was no sobbing, it was laughter. With tears running down his face, Elric Thorn was laughing.
There was no humor in this sound, nor was it the evil laughter of a villain in triumph. This laughter was born out of deepest sadness and hopelessness.

And then the girl moved. A small groan came out of her throat as she clenched her right shoulder.
The laughter died in an instant. Elric could see the wound now. The energy bolt only grazed her. She was alive.
Elric did not know if it was because the umbrella hid most of her small body, if his mental scream caused the aim to shift slightly or if the cursed Device decided that only wounding her would be enough, but she was alive.

In irony Elric thought that this girl would probably never approach a stranger again.
The Girl lifted her head. The left side of her face was covered in blood from her hard hit on the ground and partially from the bloody water she was lying in. She was brave enough to not show anything from the pain the felt.

And then she opened her eyes and looked at him.

For an instant, Elric forgot how to breathe. Her eyes showed neither hostility nor fear, neither warmth nor cold. She just looked at him with clear eyes.

Elric made one step backwards.

It was not his ripped clothing or his wild, uncut hair she looked at.

He made another step.

It was not the black Device that had formed around his right forearm she looked at.

He turned around.

It was him. She looked at him and she saw what he was.

Elric started running.

She saw his bloodstained self. She saw his soul clenched by black metal.

Water splashed around his running feet.

She saw his weak self that lost against the dark Device.

It was more than anyone could bear. The last straw…

And something broke inside of Elric Thorn.


==========


[TSAB Dimensional Patrol Cruiser - Auriga, canteen] [May, MC 076]

Elric rubbed his temples to drive away the dull, thumping pain in his head. It’s been a while since he recalled this particular encounter in his dreams. It was one of the most disturbing memories he had, but he was certain it wouldn't be the last time his memories would haunt him. The psychologists told him he would recall these past events for the rest of his life.

A groan from the other side of the table caught his attention. Rinya, who was sitting opposite of Elric, was resting her head on the top of the table.

“I can’t believe it…” she mourned. “…I’m dimensional sick.”

“No you are not…” Elric commented without stopping to rub his temples. “It’s standard gravity. There is no such thing as dimensional sickness. It’s just something psychological.”

Rinya didn’t respond so he continued after a while. “How about I get you something to eat? Maybe you’ll feel better with a full stomach.”

Rinya turned her pale face a little to look at him helplessly and spoke with a weak voice: “Do you want to finish me off?”

Elric let out a sigh and leaned backwards. “I wonder how you managed it to Mid.”

“It was a direct flight with a civilian shuttle. I slept most of the time.” The answer came after a short moment.

Rinya's symptoms had slowly gotten worse the more she realized she was off planet. Apart from dizziness and slight nausea she was fine, a reason why she didn't want to lie down in her room or the sickbay.

“Ah, there you are.” A new voice joined the conversation and the blond man sat down aside Rinya.

“Good morning, Captain.” Elric saluted Jorin Fafnir and pinched the spot between his eyes after that.

“Headache?” the Admiral asked and put down a glass of water in front of Rinya.

“Nothing I can’t manage, Sir.” Elric leaned forward again. Jorin, at the same time, ripped open a small white bag and started to pour the containing white powder into the water. “Here, Shuri-san, I got you something from the sickbay for your stomach.”

After Rinya answered only with a grunt, Jorin grabbed her shoulders and pulled her up. “I always thought that it was a joke between travelers. I never imagined I would meet a person that actually gets dimensional sick.”

“It’s just psychological.” Rinya silently answered and fought weakly against the arms that tried to pull her up.

“You will drink this now, Shuri-san. That’s an order!” Jorin said strictly but with warmth in his voice. “Come on, I’ll help you.”

“Yes Sir.” Rinya said and reached for the glass.

While he supported Rinya with one of his arms, Jorin helped her lift the glass to her mouth. “Drink slowly.” He said.

Watching both in silence, Elric suddenly caught himself glaring at Jorin. He shook his head and closed his eyes for a moment. ”Must be this damn headache…”

“So, you two are already two days on board of the [I]Auriga[/].”Jorin suddenly started, causing Elric to open his eyes again and look at the speaker who continued. “Apart from the current problems, is the journey comfortable enough for both of you?”

Elric looked to Rinya, who had her elbows on the table, supporting her head with her hands. She didn’t looked like she was going to answer, but at least she was sitting upright now.

Elric answered: “Yes it is. Thank you, Sir. But I don’t quite understand why you ask. It’s not like we are on a holiday.”

Jorin smiled warm. “I’m proud of my ship, Thorn-san. And even though you both are on a mission, you are guests on this ship, so the least thing I can do is to make your work as comfortable as possible. I know how hard it can be if you just sit around and wait for something to happen.”

Elric returned the smile slightly. “I’m grateful, Sir.” Rinya managed a little nod.

“Of course I’m also here to tell you that your medical checkup and Device maintenance is scheduled for tomorrow at 1500, Thorn-san.” Jorin stretched his back a little and stood.

Elric let out a little sigh. “Yes Sir, Thank you, Sir.”

Jorin chuckled. “Well if you two need me, you’ll find me on the bridge.”

With a final nod at his two guests, the captain left the canteen.

“You’re having medical checkups and Device maintenance at the same time?” Rinya asked and rested her head back on top of the table.

“Pretty much. As I’m unable to take of Carnage, they thought it would be less boring for me to be checked at the same time.”

“Well…” Rinya let out a small chuckle while smiling weakly. “…sucks to be you.”

Well... that's it...
Next time I will post my Movie Version of Elrics BJ.

Byebye!

*runs but is glomped by Cadia-tan befor he can escape*

Urks~!

Freud would have a field day dissecting Elric's dream.

...Movie Version?!

Maybe I should get one. Elder!Erio's been released after all, though he's half obscured by Caro.

Originally Posted by Comartemis

I came up with a solution to the Hayate shafting while I was working with Kagerou and I thought I'd share it.

Stop me if you've heard this one before:

Just need to point out she can be more powerful at melee, but she's not a robot that can simply redirect power to shields or lasers at a flick of a switch; learning these skills from scratch will take time, which then reflects how adaptive Hayate is. Nanoha and Fate backgrounds all have something to do with close quarters combat, Hayate is literally an Otaku who woke up and discovered that she's a magical girl, so to her this will be more foreign, and will take significant amount of time to even come close to the other 2's level of mastery.

But I don't see why she can't attempt to do something about it, like Shiro training with Saber in Fate/Stay Night. His result was still LOL-worthy, but it did cover for some areas.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Kha

Just need to point out she can be more powerful at melee, but she's not a robot that can simply redirect power to shields or lasers at a flick of a switch;

Technically, they can. Even using shields and firing at the same time has been shown to be possible.

Originally Posted by Kha

Hayate is literally an Otaku who woke up and discovered that she's a magical girl, so to her this will be more foreign, and will take significant amount of time to even come close to the other 2's level of mastery.

Nanoha's melee 'mastery' isn't so great as you make it out to be. If all she did was watching her brother and sister train, then Hayate can catch up to her level pretty quick (Nanoha has enough skill to hold her ground against melee oponents, but not to defeat them in melee). For Hayate, simply having her train in it should work. Nobody questioned how a nine-year-old Fate could be an expert melee-combatant, I don't see why Hayate should.

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by Liingo

Re: Karewit
You'll have to check with Kha with this since I'm not sure myself what happens to the body when one is dead, but the Rez spell isn't exactly one that fits with canon. I wouldn't be having the spell work after much more than a few minutes (dead) , not to mention that if the spell works (and even if it doesn't) that she should be bed ridden for a few days at least.

I was under the impression that for it to work, death had to be really recent. *shrugs* Most of the time when dead people are revived with modern medical technology and technique, it's when death has happened very recently. A famous example are the shock paddles for restarting the heart.

Originally Posted by Kagerou

To be honest, the way I see it is that the spell should be feasible. We have medical technology in real life that can literally bring someone back from the dead, so I don't see how magic would be unable to achieve the same thing.

That said, this isn't super-magic; there are factors that must be in place. For starters, the body must be whole - there can't be any missing vital organs or body parts. Secondly, the nature of the death must be put into consideration; if you die from old age, rez is impossible; death by a gunshot wound, then yes, it's possible.

Finally, consider that this is essentially her "Limit Break" spell. As such, it requires a shitload of mana to cast; think of it as using 105% of her mana. And you're right; after using this spell she's out of commission for a while, thus it's only used in the most dire of circumstances where a certain person dying is simply not an option.

tl;dr: If they can bring Zest back then dammnit I can make someone who can rez

A couple of qualifiers on the medical tech issue: in most of the cases where dead people have been revived, death has been fairly short. As Kha will no doubt say, the most famous example are the paddles. CPR can also resucitate a person, but again needs to be done quickly.

I'd also like to point out that if you're going to rez someone who's dead of a bullet wound, Rena-chan's still gonna need to take the bullet out or she'll just heal the person... at which point said person will die all over again from the bullet that's still in them. (Unless it's a HE/API bullet, or DU, where the bullet disintergrates into a flaming shotgun shell-like effect. With DU, the effect is a flaming shotgun shell from hell.) Though obviously that'd be a job for Val Kozlov, ace battlefield medic, crack shot, Nebraska Farmgirl and mother of seven daughters. XD

*Memo to self: write more Veri/Val for TF6*

[Kha]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Technically, they can. Even using shields and firing at the same time has been shown to be possible.

I was assuming without Rein synchro'd in, since Swertkreuz or Tome doesn't have an AI.

With a UD, things change indeed.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Nanoha's melee 'mastery' isn't so great as you make it out to be. If all she did was watching her brother and sister train, then Hayate can catch up to her level pretty quick (Nanoha has enough skill to hold her ground against melee oponents, but not to defeat them in melee). For Hayate, simply having her train in it should work. Nobody questioned how a nine-year-old Fate could be an expert melee-combatant, I don't see why Hayate should.

Fate was grinded to do so by Precia IIRC, but yeah Nanoha's a little shaky.

Still, the most I can give Hayate more weapon skill; Fate can, and maybe Nanoha was born with fast reflexes and so could get by; but Hayate, can she track the really fast changes that close in order to really excel at H2H range?

(DISCLAIMER: This line of thought has been heavily influenced by Tau fluff about why they can't melee. )

[Arkeus]

ok, stupid question...

But where does Yuuno's supposed Super defence comes from?

Yes, we see him Surviving against vita all of two minutes. Do keep in mind though that Vita at that time didn't even use "Deadly Punishment", much less a cartridge.

I do beleive that yuuno specialise in defence. But not that he is any stronger than Nanoha in it (in fact, he is probably weaker than her), as she did manage two round shields at once, and her "injuries" came from lack of control in body-enhancing spell without her BJ (remember, she did destroy the rough with her foot's pressure).

Yuuno, i think, fights the way he does because his control is extremely high. His binds and spells are either linked to him or "static" like barriers, spells that he probably ask for more control than power. Frankly, i don't think that yuuno *could* use much more than basi attack spell that wee see mook enforcer use against precia.

I'll put Yuuno as, in power, C rank, and in Effectiveness, A rank.

But maybe i am wrong and i missed something.

I have a few questions more to ask later on, as i am bitten by the Negima/Nanoha plot bunny too :XD

Edit:

Nanoha Canonicly is bad at sport. she proably is better in Traingle heart's Original Universe, but she never got training i think yet in MGLN, and is shown as being "Bad" in A's manga.

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by Kha

I was assuming without Rein synchro'd in, since Swertkreuz or Tome doesn't have an AI.

With a UD, things change indeed.

Fate was grinded to do so by Precia IIRC, but yeah Nanoha's a little shaky.

Still, the most I can give Hayate more weapon skill; Fate can, and maybe Nanoha was born with fast reflexes and so could get by; but Hayate, can she track the really fast changes that close in order to really excel at H2H range?

(DISCLAIMER: This line of thought has been heavily influenced by Tau fluff about why they can't melee. )

My take is that you also need to be at least physically fit to be a good melee magus. Take a look at all the Knights, including Erio. Save for Shamal who is a support character, everyone of them are at least atheletic and capable of fighting without magic enhancement. Imho physical enhancement via mana boost is not as easy as we might think. The melee-oriented magus/knight need to be strong enough to endure the strain it conveys to the body and if the user is an invalid, that user is not going to last long, either as a combatant or as something with a timespan that will be cut shorter by the burnout.

Thus comes the challenge for Hayate's change into a melee-oriented magus/knight imho. She will need to be at least achieve a suitable level of physical fitness and that will need time, especially if you consider how long she has been straddled to that wheelchair. It's not impossible but it is going to be tough for the first couple of years for her. She will need to undergo physical conditioning first to get her into shape, and then a continuous, un-interrupted training schedule to build up and maintain her physical strength and endurance.

My 2 cents

[PhoenixFlare]

Originally Posted by Kha

Current clinical techniques and machinery can revive people who have flatlined for 1 hour, with a 50% success rate. While I believe the same rule applies to magic, since its dependent on how much metabolic poison the body can take while flatlining without suffering permanent damage rather than how powerful is the resurrection spell, I also advocate that a magically strengthened body can last longer, meaning magical healers have a longer "Golden Hour" to work with. Just add a time limit to the time of death (6 hours at room temperature is about the maximum IMO ), and have some side-effects, you should do fine.

As for whether there's permanent damage, revival after 6hrs should show something brain damage. No idea if Midchilda medicine can reverse that. Technically, the skies the limit here; The limits I place here and there are roughly based off injecting the dream tools that a medical practitioner drools about into a magical realm to push the limits of human survival to the max; with proper justification, it should work.

At this point, we're assuming that everything in work to revive the person is optimum; that is, we have all the necessary equipment, speed, technology, life support devices, contamination free, etc. These small factors, while not much, contribute to the revival.

For magical means, however, this is essentially difficult to achieve. I'm not sure how Kagerou decides to pull this (I was thinking battle medic scene), but anywhere out of the ICU or surgery room with only a single magical healer around is pretty much pushing the boundary of the said limitations. The healer may have the necessary power (we'll assume it works like a defibrillator/drug injector/stimulator, etc.), but without supporting devices (feeding tubes, pacemakers, mechanical respirator, etc.), he should not be able to resurrect a person, only extend the Golden Hour before the point of no return.

The widely acceptable (and less ambiguous) medical condition for death at present is brain death -- cessation of brain activities for extended periods of time. Regardless of the Golden Hour, a dead person should stay dead and not be resurrected.

For Zest's case, we're assuming that he had been sent to the grave and was brain-dead before he was literally resurrected (as opposed to extension of Golden Hour). However, Cinque, who happened to critically injure him, might have taken him quickly to a preservation unit before he was "brought back to life" via Jail's manipulation. Of course, even the doctor seemed to fail to restore full functions, and Zest's body suffered degeneration soonafter. These two seem similar, but it's really different, and that makes all the difference.

P/S: In case anyone doesn't understand what I'm rambling about, I'm contending between "literal resurrection" (such as magic and necromancy) and "technical resurrection" (such as thawing a cold-preserved person).

[Evangelion Xgouki]

Originally Posted by Kha

Another intriguing piece of Khrack hit me just now, and even for the World of Negiha, Kouya may be dropped completely. In his place would be someone from the other side...

Spoiler for Kha...:

...the Death Knight.

EDIT: Baah maintenance night. Maybe Caa the Cleric can be up tonight.

*reverses his Death Grip spell to send Kha flying through the air*

Originally Posted by Kyral

Damn this Nanoha Movie...

Since I saw those magazin scans a image of Elric with red stripes on the sides of his coat and a Carnage with rounder edges is spooking through my brain...

Maybe I will draw it... maybe not...

You know you want to

Originally Posted by Kyral

On the other hand... I already have a AU Elric (and Hayate/Keroko/Shamsel ).

*cackles in the background*

Originally Posted by Kyral

...

Thanks to you I will now be unable to sleep because my brain will spit out different design combinations like hell...

*sigh*

Well... it so damn hot here that I won't sleep anyway... so I think it's nothing bad...

I will get something on paper tomorrow...

Might as well make use off the time you have from not being able to sleep then, huh?

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

@___@

*removes microscope and stabs back with a telescope* >>>:3

Bigger is better?

...except in terms of chest size. DFC is ALWAYS WIN!!!!

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

*counter-cross-stabs with a large fireball* :3 :3 :3

...stab with a fireball?

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

*is punted* @_@

What?! >_>

Just be glad you didn't put Evangeline on that chart of I would have used my Evangelion's FOOT instead

Originally Posted by Kha

@______@

*removes telescope and stabs back with the Hubble space telescope* >>>>:3

I don't think NASA appreciates that, Kha

Originally Posted by dkellis

Spoiler for random:

*snip*

Random is random . Wonder what poor Fate got herself into this time...

Originally Posted by Kyral

Aaaaaaaallright, minna-saaaan!

Thanks to Liingos( ) awsome help with my grammar, I'm now able to present you my next chapter in terms of bloody history and Elric/Rinya goodness... (or something like that xD)

Memories of Blood and Sorrow
Part 6: Her circumstances.

Spoiler:

*snip*

Well... that's it...
Next time I will post my Movie Version of Elrics BJ.

Byebye!

*runs but is glomped by Cadia-tan befor he can escape*

Urks~!

Yay! It continues

Originally Posted by Kyral

Anyway... here is my "Movie Version" Elric

Spoiler for Elric Thron in Movie Barrier Jacket:

So the stripes have won, huh?

Originally Posted by Kha

Just need to point out she can be more powerful at melee, but she's not a robot that can simply redirect power to shields or lasers at a flick of a switch; learning these skills from scratch will take time, which then reflects how adaptive Hayate is. Nanoha and Fate backgrounds all have something to do with close quarters combat, Hayate is literally an Otaku who woke up and discovered that she's a magical girl, so to her this will be more foreign, and will take significant amount of time to even come close to the other 2's level of mastery.

Well, Hayate is already highly skilled in hand to hand chest 'combat'

[stormturmoil]

Just to further address Comartemis' issue about super charged melee proficiency...

you also have to consider that in certain circumstances, too much mana could destabilise the spells, or, possibly, cause harmful effects through them

For example, an overcharged reinforcement spell might not only lead to movements being uncontrollable due to too much power, it could also cause self-inflicted injuries because the user's body cannot take the strain, even with the spell's reinforcement ( that is, strength boost=/=toughness/endurance boost.)

Much as Berserkers had hysterical strength, but could also suffer ruined muscles, shattered bones and damaged tendons and ligaments because the power they were exerting was more than their bodies could withstand.

This could also be an issue with other kinds of spells too.

I examined this with my own character, and eventually decided that for his spells he would have to use limiter Control Devices to prevent him using too much power and causing harmful effects, such as:

Healing spells that are overcharged can cause Cancerous growth or autoimmune disorders. They can also cause bones to fuse improperly

Enhancement spells that can cause self inflicted physical strain injuries. Damage to muscles or nerves caused by over saturation with mana. possibly even simulated mana burn injuries

Also, clumsiness caused by an inability to control the increased strength or adapt to reduced reaction times, leading to lack of coordination (also, becoming an Easy Target problems too).

Malnutrition and vitamin/mineral deficiencies caused by spells redirecting nutrients away from body maintenance for regeneration healing or muscle enhancement

Shields and barriers that are too enclosing, and not only stop attacks, but also other effects, leading for example to them becoming opaque because they stop all light, leaving the user blindsided, or suffocation because the barrier prevents movement of air.

Attack spells whose recoil is potentially so strong as to be harmful; also, overpenetration issues, though certain Character's (they know who they are...) might not particularly take issue with this...


So, It is possible that if you choose to follow this kind of model that Too much power could in certain circumstances be even worse than not enough...

[Arkeus]

Originally Posted by stormturmoil

So, It is possible that if you choose to follow this kind of model that Too much power could in certain circumstances be even worse than not enough...

QFT

I beleive overcharging spells that effect someone is a *very* bad thing. Hell, one part of the proble mwith the "blaster" system is that it puts too much magical energy in Nanoha, which destroy her.

I believe that any kind of spell will at least "overflow" iif you put too much strength behind it (the spell is not made to endure that much power, so magic is leaking into the user/target's body).

If the user/targer already is the beneficiary to a mass heal/reinforcement it wouldn't surprise me that the excess magical energy goes straight to erode the mage life expectancy.

Not Good.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Kha

I was assuming without Rein synchro'd in, since Swertkreuz or Tome doesn't have an AI.

With a UD, things change indeed.

I wasn't talking about Unision, you know. Nanoha already used Divine Shooter while having a shield raised in the first season.

Originally Posted by Kha

Fate was grinded to do so by Precia IIRC,

Nine year old, Kha. Nine. Realism took a hike then, why can't it for Hayate?

Originally Posted by stormturmoil

you also have to consider that in certain circumstances, too much mana could destabilise the spells, or, possibly, cause harmful effects through them

For example, an overcharged reinforcement spell might not only lead to movements being uncontrollable due to too much power, it could also cause self-inflicted injuries because the user's body cannot take the strain, even with the spell's reinforcement ( that is, strength boost=/=toughness/endurance boost.)

That would defy the purpose of the boost in the first place, which is to allow the body to handle the strain. Now, this is overanalyizing things (but then, a lot of your further analysis is overanalying things as well) but a concidering the magic is called reinforcement magic, its logical to believe that it reinforces the body to not only deal the damage, but to take the strain as well. So a supercharged melee attack would be acompanied by the propper reinforcement of the body.

Originally Posted by stormturmoil

Shields and barriers that are too enclosing, and not only stop attacks, but also other effects, leading for example to them becoming opaque because they stop all light, leaving the user blindsided, or suffocation because the barrier prevents movement of air.

No canon proof of this. In fact, shield strength tends to be unoticable by appearance alone.

[Arkeus]

Originally Posted by Keroko

That would defy the purpose of the boost in the first place, which is to allow the body to handle the strain. Now, this is overanalyizing things (but then, a lot of your further analysis is overanalying things as well) but a concidering the magic is called reinforcement magic, its logical to believe that it reinforces the body to not only deal the damage, but to take the strain as well. So a supercharged melee attack would be acompanied by the propper reinforcement of the body.

Mmmmh yes, but that's with basic and known spell. There is quite a few ewemples of how experimental spells, or spells used when the user is not in an optimal condition (Zest and Nanoha) can be harmful.

How do you explain !zest's problem with his "full drive", if it's not that his new body is not solid enough to withstand the additional magic leaking from the spell?

[Keroko]

Good point, I had forgoten about Zest. His Full Drive did specifically state that it went 'beyond the limits of the human body.' (or something to that effect anyway)

[Arkeus]

Keroko: It is you who is trying to do a Negima/Nanoha cross with an OC named Keroko, right?

If so, could you explain what you are planing to do as so far as you have already told others here? Too lazy to browse through all of your post

I am saying that because i just got bitten by the Negima/nanoha bug, and i have quite a few idea about it, so i'd like to talk about it to someone else

[Evangelion Xgouki]

From what I understood 'boost'-type spells, they are designed to augment the person's abilities (strength, speed, etc) and probably protect them against some strain but the human body does have its limits. Even with the protection of the spell, there's going to be a limit to which attributes can be augmented until there is harm done to the person.

(it's in my head, but hard to put into words -_-)

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Arkeus

Keroko: It is you who is trying to do a Negima/Nanoha cross with an OC named Keroko, right?

If so, could you explain what you are planing to do as so far as you have already told others here? Too lazy to browse through all of your post

I am saying that because i just got bitten by the Negima/nanoha bug, and i have quite a few idea about it, so i'd like to talk about it to someone else

Basically? I still need to shift to Comar's timeline to see what he's cooked up (he's the one who started doing it), but I plan for Keroko to be a TSAB officer on an undercover mission to study earth's magical culture. She joins the class, meets up with Negi and joins him on the adventures.