Madhouse: Studio discussion, speculation, and whatnot

[Reckoner]

If there is a concern to be found with Madhouse it is the huge financial hole they apparently seem to be in. I recall Satoshi Kon's swan song being put on hold despite all the promises by Madhouse staff that it would be finished, which is real goddamn shame if you ask me.

They are still churning out great work for sure, even if some old veterans are leaving. Hunter x Hunter is an excellent adaption, as is Chihayafuru. Plus we're getting a second season of Chihayafuru soon, and Btoom seems like a solid production (Time will tell if it's good). I'm not too worried about them as a studio right now in terms of quality. However, their financial situation is definitely worrisome.

[Guardian Enzo]

To be fair, Dreaming Machine is going to be a very expensive production - and with Kon-sama's passing, extremely dubious as a money-making proposition. There aren't many animation studios that would be able to sell something like that to the investors as a slam-dunk to be completed. It amounts to a desire by Masao Maruyama to finish it to honor Kon's memory, which is admirable, but that it's taking some time doesn't in itself signify financial problems to me.

[Lenneth4]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

The staff here had been all been a team before on Aoi Bungaku and Mōryō no Hako, both works I had greatly enjoyed, even if the episodes they worked on in Blue Literature weren't my favorite, I thought they were among the better ones from the show. Expectations now are slightly higher than before.

Salvaged would be a better term I'd think. The exodus from the studio over the past 2 years had given a rise to the numbers of talented freelancers that need a place to stay with the House burning to the ground ...



I doubt anyone loves it (I certainly don't) but when it had been written all over the wall for so long, eventually we will have to dictate it to paper ...

And yes, they still have talent left, but ignoring the signs isn't going to make it all better. I love Hunter X Hunter, I love Chihayafuru, I love Hosoda, and I like a lot of the work the studio had got out over the years. I don't want them to go away, but I can tell they aren't doing so well at the moment financially. They hadn't been for a long time now, and it hadn't gotten better.



They had died for a couple of years now, we can only mourn for so long. And I prefer to remember the good times we had together.

I loved Mouryou no hako so much
so much underrated series

[TJR]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

If there is a concern to be found with Madhouse it is the huge financial hole they apparently seem to be in.

NTV bailed them out, so the situation isn't so dire. However, the change in ownership meant a loss of independence and an inability for them to make the shows/movies they want.

I recall Satoshi Kon's swan song being put on hold despite all the promises by Madhouse staff that it would be finished, which is real goddamn shame if you ask me.

It's a financing issue (a promise from Madhouse personnel =/= commitment from studio owners). Last we heard, Masao Maruyama was struggling to attract investors through MAPPA.

maybe they're just going through a rebuilding phase and some young talent will step up and fill the voids left by those gone

It depends on the direction they want to go. Under Maruyama, Madhouse nurtured talent and developed them into auteurs (until the company was run to the ground).

However, NTV may have a different vision. I'd guess that they're less focused on auteurs and pet projects, and more focused on using Madhouse as a factory for shows that fit within the network's business goals (not necessarily a bad thing since NTV often greenlights riskier, atypical productions. Nevertheless, the tendency is to produce things fast and cheap, one project after another. I'd be surprised if nurturing talent were of much interest to them).

[Kirarakim]

Mad House might have some financial issues but they are still producing great anime.

It does suck that some staff might be leaving but if they are just moving to a new studio that isn't necessarily a loss for us.

If we can have Mahouse for well done manga adaptions (something they are usually good at) & Maruyama's new studio for more unique projects & talent, well that could even be a positive.

[totoum]

This is from a Hosoda interview in june 2010 shortly after the french release of summer wars

Do you plan on working with Mahouse again?

I would like to,sadly,I'm not sure because madhouse, by choosing to privilege artistic vision, aren't really performing well financially.This could,eventually,lead to its existence being put into question.If that turns out to be the case that'd be sad and I'd have to find another structure to produce my movies.

But Summer Wars was a success in Japan...

The problem is that for each Summer Wars you have certain amount of other productions that aren't earning as much money.I don't think that with one summer wars we can straighten up a not really comfortable financial situation.

Of course maybe things have gotten better since then but I doubt Hosoda would be saying stuff like this lightly and he did end up creating his own studio to produce his next movie.

edit: the NTV takeover TJR mentioned happened after the interview so that could have helped out.

[Guardian Enzo]

It seems odd for Hosoda to say that Madhouse is suffering because they were prioritizing artistic vision over commercialism, then turn around and say he doesn't want to make a commercially successful film for them. As long as they have the structure in place to produce the film, why not reward them for their integrity with loyalty?

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

It seems odd for Hosoda to say that Madhouse is suffering because they were prioritizing artistic vision over commercialism, then turn around and say he doesn't want to make a commercially successful film for them. As long as they have the structure in place to produce the film, why not reward them for their integrity with loyalty?

What I am getting from Hosoda's comment is that it's not that he doesn't want to work with Madhouse, but they might not be able to put in the finances to produce his film the way he needs or wants.

I think Hosoda supports what Madhouse is doing from an artistic standpoint, but their decisions may not be financially viable. It's actually a pretty sad comment because its saying Madhouse was willing to take risks but that might have hurt them.

I guess you need to find that balance between commercial and artistic. Hopefully the funding from NTV will help Madhouse out, but that does mean a loss of control (and I expect that is why Maruyama and other staff left).

From my stand point, I have been happy with what NTV has done with Madhouse so far and I hope it works out for them.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

It seems odd for Hosoda to say that Madhouse is suffering because they were prioritizing artistic vision over commercialism, then turn around and say he doesn't want to make a commercially successful film for them. As long as they have the structure in place to produce the film, why not reward them for their integrity with loyalty?

I'm not sure his loyalty is to Madhouse as much as it is to its founder Masao Maruyama

He said in an interview that it was Maruyama that "saved him" because after failing at ghibli he thought he'd never get the chance to direct a non franchise movie ever again and out of the blue came Maruyama saying Madhouse would like to work with him.


Maruyama's now left Madhouse to found MAPPA so the man who gave Hosoda his chance isn't there anymore

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by totoum

He said in an interview that it was Maruyama that "saved him" because after failing at ghibli he thought he'd never get the chance to direct a non franchise movie ever again and out of the blue came Maruyama saying Madhouse would like to work with him.

And I think Hosoda's Girl Who Leapt Through Time was a much better film than Miyazaki's Howl's Moving Castle which Hosoda was dropped from.

[Warm Mist]

Hosoda has his own studio, Maruyama has his own studio, Kon's gone, Yuasa hasn't appeared since Yojouhan, many talented directors are branching out to work on shows produced by other studios... yeah, Madhouse is as good as ever.

In any case I don't think they're going to die, but they're not what they used to be anymore, just like Gainax or 4ºC.
Thankfully there is MAPPA and the exponential rise of Aniplex/A-1 to cover for some young directors, but I don't expect another Tatami Galaxy or Redline from Madhouse in the near future.

[Kirarakim]

I think Madhouse is different but I don't really see NTV (I keep mistakenly putting NHK) taking it over having a negative effect. I guess it is just from my personal perspective but the properties NTV is choosing to produce are ones I enjoy:

Chihayayfuru for example is one of my most recent favorite series. And Madhouse did a great job with it.

Although I am not watching it anymore (mainly due to time constraints) from what I've seen Madhouse is also doing a good job with Hunter X Hunter.

I do think Madhouse will be taking less risks and we will be seeing less "new talent" from Madhouse, but as long as that talent is nurtured somewhere else we as fans are not really losing anything.

Personally I am hoping Maruyama's new studio can be financially viable to do what he wants. And I am also hoping Hosoda will have continued success with producing his own works.

[Fevvers]

I think it's the lack of experimental shows people are worrying about. Shows like Chihayafuru, while good, can be made anytime due to its universal appeal, not to mention it's shoujo. Can't say the same for the works of Yuasa, Hamazaki, Kon et al.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Fevvers

I think it's the lack of experimental shows people are worrying about. Shows like Chihayafuru, while good, can be made anytime due to its universal appeal, not to mention it's shoujo. Can't say the same for the works of Yuasa, Hamazaki, Kon et al.

But I mentioned this in my post. These types of series might not be produced at Madhouse anymore, but there is nothing to stop them from being produced somewhere else.

Maruyuma who was instrumental in nurturing new talents is just starting a new studio. From our perspective does it really matter if these series are produced at Madhouse or Mappa?


And Chihayafuru is Josei not Shoujo.

[Fevvers]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

But I mentioned this in my post. These types of series might not be produced at Madhouse anymore, but there is nothing to stop them from being produced somewhere else.

Maruyuma who was instrumental in nurturing new talents is just starting a new studio. From our perspective does it really matter if these series are produced at Madhouse or Mappa?

Depends if more people are still willing to sponsor those types of show. But then again, those shows have always been few and far between.

And Chihayafuru is Josei not Shoujo.

I stand corrected. Though to be very honest it's still quite tame compared to other josei I read.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Maruyuma who was instrumental in nurturing new talents is just starting a new studio. From our perspective does it really matter if these series are produced at Madhouse or Mappa?

Watching a Maruyuma Q&A is kind of depressing
Watanabe was working on an original theatrical project at madhouse but after Maruyuma left madhouse the studio cancelled the project so he handed up doing kids on the slope.
Of course maybe it would have ended up being cancelled even if Maruyuma had stayed but either way if someone established like Watanabe is struggling to get his project greenlit I wouldn't really say there's "nothing stopping these projects from being produced"

Maruyuma isn't going to be around forever either,I hope there's someone to take over his vision once he retires.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by totoum

Of course maybe it would have ended up being cancelled even if Maruyuma had stayed but either way if someone established like Watanabe is struggling to get his project greenlit I wouldn't really say there's "nothing stopping these projects from being produced"

Maruyuma isn't going to be around forever either,I hope there's someone to take over his vision once he retires.

Okay but I think you are missing my point. Maruyama founded Madhouse, it was his vision (not a studio) that was probably instrumental in getting these special projects green lit.

Maruyama leaving Madhouse is not stopping projects from being greenlit. Maruyama even started a new studio, I assume to make the projects he wants that he couldn't at Madhouse anymore.

I can see how perhaps some projects might have been dropped in the transition (and that might have happened with Watanabe's project) but if Maruyama is the one who produced these type of series and Maruyama is still producing anime, we can presume he still at least wants to produce these types of series/films. Now whether Maruyama will be around forever (and who will take his place) or will his new studio even have the finances to do this is another discussion I think separate from the changes at Madhouse.

You might even say that Mappa is just a new division of Madhouse. Maybe not officially, but at least it feels that way to me. I would also argue that the changes at Madhouse are not stopping these type of series from being produced, it's a much larger monetary issue overall.

edit: Also Hosoda started a new studio to produce his own films. Who is to say in the future he might not support new directors/animators. Perhaps not at the same scale but he might be able to do something like this with the money he earns from his films.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Maruyama leaving Madhouse is not stopping projects from being greenlit. Maruyama even started a new studio, I assume to make the projects he wants that he couldn't at Madhouse anymore.

Your last statement is spot on , Maruyama said himself in the Q&A " Our goal is to make new shows that we wouldn't have been able to make at MADHOUSE"

I think i just misinterpreted what you meant when you said " but there is nothing to stop them from being produced somewhere else." because that makes it sound like you think these kind of projects are easy to get greenlit but now I get that's not what you meant.

As for Hosoda he's mentionned in interviews that long term if his next few movies are a success he could end up supporting new young directors.But that's still far away.

[Warm Mist]

I do think there are tangible bad sides to Madhouse's downfall (if it continues). Of course the studio is not a person who makes series, the individual directors and authors are, but the studio is an environment where all of these talents work together and get inspiration from each other. If all the people that made Madhouse great go different ways, the studio gets fragmented and young artists that work at Madhouse lose veterans who can be an inspiration and influence them for good.

It's like saying "it doesn't matter if Gainax is almost dead, Gainax-like shows are going to be made anyway". Yeah, of course Imaishi, Anno, Tsurumaki and co. are still going to be part of the industry, but they're not together at the same studio anymore. When Trigger produces their first show, I'm pretty sure it won't feel like a Gainax show feels. The loss of that is what the loss of the creative force behind a studio entails.

Now it might seem like this is very dramatic, but actually I'm optimistic for the future of MAPPA, Chizu and the respected Madhouse directors, and I'm eager to see what they'll do next. Nerawareta Gakuen by Nakamura over at Sunrise is an example of that.

[ReinZwei]

Looks like Madhouse is on the roll this spring, 2 series which I found interesting is currently being run by them namely, the popular Mahouka and the one which I found more interesting, No game No life.