2009-08-28, 23:24 | Link #42 | |
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Kyon in particular was expected to do better than he did, and his inability to live up to Haruhi's expectations of him certainly contributed quite a bit to her emotional state.
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2009-08-28, 23:32 | Link #43 | |
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2009-08-29, 01:53 | Link #44 |
Baka Inu~
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I think everyone here has a really good idea on how Haruhi thinks. It's kind of strange really to me that we can't fully understand what her true thoughts are being the pure antagonist for the show. The only thing that I really wanna push is that I do not believe that Haruhi is a character who we can feel sympathetic about and I hope some of her personal issues are handled well in the light novels or anime.
The only thing that feels absurd to me about the whole issue is the "John Smith" thing. Honestly, there are many things wrong with the mentality of the whole issue. Why would she be so concerned about a guy that she knew for one day and treated him like crap the entire time. Not to mention, that the time-span was only 3 years and even in that period of time, she should be able to know who Kyon is by then. I really think Triple_R has the right idea where Haruhi separates herself from humanity and humanity basically complies by not really caring about her. She does get her way and she does succeed, but the victories themselves are very empty. They only really please Haruhi and keep the espers from worrying. In fact, they are rather disheartening for the people involved like the baseball team or computer club. Baltakatei is also right in the sense that she can't accept failure. It's hard to tell that if she's spoiled or if she sees others as being lowly to her that she's just so used to succeeding that she doesn't know how to experience failure and may over-react to it. (Which may be fine, but Koizumi and Mikuru do have that universe to worry about.) In general, I think Haruhi may be more oblivious or unfocused than most people think because she doesn't think about many possibilities or what may lie ahead. You can really see this with Mikuru because of how often Haruhi gets jealous of her being close to Kyon. I don't think it occured to Haruhi, that because Mikuru-chan is seen as being one of the most attractive girls at the school, that Kyon also might find her attractive and get embarrassed when Mikuru is close. |
2009-08-29, 03:08 | Link #45 | ||||
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I don't know if I'd call her the pure antagonist for the show. The goal, after all, is not to defeat Haruhi, but rather to manage her. In fact, that's what a lot of the discussion on this thread is about. Itsuki, Mikuru, and Yuki aren't trying to change Haruhi, or to reform her as though she was a pure antagonist. They're not taking a pro-active approach and trying to actually reason with her. They're just trying to have events unfold in a way that pleases her, and manages her psychological state in a way that will prevent problems from arising. And they do this almost entirely on a case-by-case basis. Here is where I give Kyon the most credit... and it's probably where I sympathize with him the most. He does have his moments of being pro-active; of actually trying to reason with Haruhi and get her to see things differently. The other SOS Brigade members don't even bother to try... they basically shift all responsibilities unto Kyon when it comes to making Haruhi more manageable on a long-term basis. If I was Kyon, I'd be a bit ticked off with them too. Quote:
Haruhi really has nobody to be a close personal friend with. Kyon shares her interests to a degree, but not her intensity. Tsuruya shares her intensity (just about), but not her interests. And Itsuki, Mikuru, and Yuki are just trying to manage and/or observe her. It's also a little bit dehumanizing the way that Kyon, Itsuki, Mikuru, and Yuki frequently view Haruhi. They want her to be happy not for her own sake, but for the world's. Haruhi doesn't have anybody in her own universe much like her at all. ... There's some reason here to feel sympathy for her. You could be right about the John Smith thing. Maybe people have attached too much significance to that. I'm mostly going with the flow there, I have to admit. Quote:
The signal most pitiable character in this anime remains the Computer Club President for me. Moreso than Mikuru - Mikuru chose to put herself in this situation; the Computer Club President didn't choose to be victimized by Haruhi. Quote:
She doesn't have that, in my view. And, actually, her movie production shows it. Haruhi's abundant, but raw, intelligence and creativity, comes out a lot during that production, as she puts forward some genuinely good ideas and observations. However, you also see how flighty she is; how she lacks disciplined thought and the ability to achieve smooth complete follow through. She moves pretty eccentrically from moment to moment, creating the movie in a piecemeal whimsical fashion. In a way, this is what makes Haruhi so potentially dangerous - she's brilliant and she's erratic.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2009-08-29 at 07:59. |
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2009-08-29, 06:26 | Link #46 | |||||
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Last edited by Heatth; 2009-08-29 at 06:43. |
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2009-08-29, 06:44 | Link #48 |
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Do you know the original meaning then?
All the latin based languages translation on B-T seens to use it. It could be because all of then based their translation on the english one, however (I don't know if is true). PP: And then, I just now noticed you begined your post with a 'if'. Nevermind then. Last edited by Heatth; 2009-08-29 at 10:28. |
2009-08-29, 10:07 | Link #49 | |
Orthodox Haruhiist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Making metal ... for fish
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First, John Smith willingly helped her out in her act of grand vandalism. Any other random North High student who spotted her after hours wouldn't have been impressed with her egotism and she'd have been brought home to her parents in the back of a squad car. Imagine how the series would've turned out if that happened. Second, there is the little conversation she and John Smith had after their successful vandalism of school grounds. They talked about weird and strange things. Conveniently she meets and talks to this strange man right after she made this huge Tanabata wish. Spoiler:
Third, John Smith completely disappears after that special night. It's the first truly weird and out-of-this-world thing Haruhi witnesses. (The whole stranger turns up in the nick of time, willingly helps her, talks to her about weird things, and then is never seen ever again thing. If Kyon had gone back to the future right in front of Haruhi's eyes, it probably would've blown her mind. And the rest of the world as a direct result.) Spoiler:
She doesn't quite equate Kyon to John Smith because it has been three years, and she's come to the very logical conclusion that John Smith must've graduated high school by the time she started. Though there seems to be something about this 'Kyon' guy . . .
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2009-08-29, 10:21 | Link #50 | |
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YOU CREATED A TIME PARADOX!!
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2009-08-29, 14:19 | Link #55 | ||
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'Miss Plot Device' work too. |
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2009-08-29, 14:33 | Link #56 | |
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In Sighs, Haruhi is intentionally causing a hard time for Kyon and the gang... I mean, she's hearing their complaints, so... In BLR and EE, though, Haruhi isn't really intentionally causing any problems. And, through out the anime/novels as a whole, she rarely does.
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2009-08-29, 14:49 | Link #57 | |
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Well, then I would say Haruhi was never an antagonist then. Even in Sighs, the problem was not the movie itself. Also, the only complening was Mikuru, Kyon(the protagonist) had nothing against the movie, but against how she treats Asahina. PP: In that sense of the word there is very few antagonist. For this wholle season(new+old episodes), the only ones were Ryouko and Koizumi(and his organization, at Lone Island). |
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2009-08-29, 15:00 | Link #58 | |
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It's important to remember that a lot of animes don't have antagonists. K-On is completely bereft of them, for example. For me, a villain is a character that deliberately causes problems and conflict for the protagonist... and is doing so for what most fans (at least) would consider villainous reasons. In Sighs, I would consider Haruhi's motivation for making the movie to be a good one - she wants to make her school's cultural festival better. It's still causing frustration/suffering for the SOS Brigade, though. Let me give you an example of a character that's an antagonist but not a villain: Fate Testarossa in the original Nanoha anime. Fate is deliberately causing problems and conflict for Nanoha... but she's doing it to help her mom, and it's not like she wants to hurt Nanoha; it's just that it's impossible for both of them to have all the jewel seeds. Precia Testarossa is a good example of a villain. She delights in inflicting pain on Fate, after Fate switches to the protagonist side. I should say, though, Heatth, that this is just my opinion. The terms antagonist and villain can be used very differently from site to site. Some sites are loath to call anybody a villain... other sites throw the term around casually.
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2009-08-29, 15:11 | Link #59 | |||
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2009-08-29, 15:15 | Link #60 | ||
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Thanks, Heatth. That's the best laugh I've had all day. Quote:
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