2013-05-22, 10:13 | Link #28522 | |
Master of Coin
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Or, be specific on if you are on pro or ant tax on this matter. |
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2013-05-22, 10:49 | Link #28523 |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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People may be unaware of how it actively works, but they have an expectation of how it should work. Those expectations are not unrealistic. I hear a lot of people in the financial sector speak of financial rules and operations as if they're some intrinsic property of the world, similar to gravity or the structure of DNA. It strikes me as little more than shifting responsibility, or engaging in immoral acts with a sense of justification behind it. These are human-made rules and regulations, and humans act around them.
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2013-05-22, 10:51 | Link #28524 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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That is called insurance, right? /人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\
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2013-05-22, 10:53 | Link #28525 |
Nyaaan~~
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 40
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I am neither pro-or-anti, it's more again of people properly understanding how international corporate structures work. You're absolutely right on your interpretation but the news and how people understand it is basically skewed. That said, I make no claim there are no questionably legal shenanigans going on, but even without creative accounting the "average person" is woefully underinformed about the most basic corporate taxation matters. @ArchmageXin -- I believe you more than get it, I'm basically thinking about the broader population that is opinionated but sadly remains largely ignorant.
Here's an example with GE -- everyone remember the "GE pays zero taxes" news article that was floating around a couple of years back? Here's a "factcheck" on it: http://www.factcheck.org/2012/04/war...pays-no-taxes/ This is where people get confused on multiple levels: Premise: GE is a U.S. company, if I look at their profit, cash, etc. Why does their tax rate look so low compared to the U.S. corporate tax rate? Ergo: GE is scamming us! Damn corporate thieves! Reality: 1) GE is an international business with both U.S. and international operating subsidiaries and holding companies 2) What the above means is that GE has "U.S.Co" "AsiaCo" "EuropeCo" and many many many more subdivisions. Each of these units generates profits at it's operating corp levels. The U.S. tax rate on profits may be ~20% (nominal 35%, avg. effective ~12%) but what about tax rates in Ireland? Rest of the world? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_by_tax_rates 3) Keep in mind taxation is only on profits. So what about government granted tax deductions? Depreciation of assets? Issuing debt to buy back stock and pay dividends (interest is paid out of pre-tax income, so it reduces profits)? 4) Go read ArchmageXin's post: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...25#post4690725 So, when people think about taxation of international businesses, they need to think about operations divided by jurisdiction and effective local tax rates. Tax treaties only factor in when funds are repatriated (as you mentioned previously) and as long as those funds are never sent back to U.S. "ParentCo" then that doesn't matter.
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2013-05-22, 12:12 | Link #28526 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Stockholm riots challenge image of happy, generous state:
"Hundreds of young people have torched cars and attacked police in three nights of riots in immigrant suburbs of Sweden's capital, shocking a country that has dodged the worst of the financial crisis but failed to defuse youth unemployment and resentment of asylum seekers. On Tuesday night, a police station in the Jakobsberg area in northwest Stockholm was attacked, two schools were damaged and an arts and crafts centre was set ablaze, despite a call for calm from Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt." See: http://news.yahoo.com/stockholm-riot...151945567.html |
2013-05-22, 12:26 | Link #28527 |
Stüldt Hĺjt!
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: On the corner
Age: 34
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These riots are bad, but it's not like attacks against the police are rare: only last year there were 51 attacks against the police. Systematic stone throwing, driving over them, shooting at them and threatening officers.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article16819471.ab Article in Swedish, I translated the parts I posted. Some pics showing how many suburbs, exactly, are in question: edit: Oh, one police interviewed in the article I linked (not just an officer, in a chief position [don't know how to translate his title]) suspects that there are criminal groups behind these riots who recruit youths to their ranks, but the officials don't know who they are or how they operate.
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Last edited by zarqu; 2013-05-22 at 12:38. |
2013-05-22, 12:56 | Link #28528 | |
Master of Coin
Join Date: Mar 2008
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To summarize for various people who don't understand taxes. Bob Corp has a office in China. It made $100. Bob Corp has a office in America. It made $10. Bob get his U.S Tax paid come tax time, 30% of the $10, so he pay $3. His actual profit is $110, so it look like he paid only 2% tax (TAX CHEAT!!!!). But in reality, the $100 is in China. If Bob ever need the $100 and ask China to pay it back, he would need to pay $30 at that time. The problem in the end, is Bush opened the floodgates in 2004(?) where he enacted an Tax holiday. Which allow oversea corps to pump a huge ton of dollars into their own coffers (You can debate how good that was for the U.S economy). So now, like little kids, International Corp is waiting for the next time an U.S President give in to allow International Corps to bring money home to "help the economy" Guess what is Apple asking? (Note: This don't explain other weird stuff like maintaining empty offices in Nevada to route their cash needs, but I am not in the Tax prep Industry right now) |
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2013-05-22, 13:44 | Link #28529 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Except a clever 'Bob Corp' lowers his profit stateside artificially. The US office didn't make $10, it made a $100. Except $90 is exported as a cost for the the use of IP.
Create a company in Ireland with a few lawyers/accountants as employees. Assign ownership of all patents for a product to the subsidiary. The subsidiary will charge back the parent company for all of the patents and copyrights used in the product. The parent company makes zero profit and the subsidiary makes all of the profit for the company. Pay no tax on your profit because.. hey.. I am paying my fair share of tax on money earned abroad. |
2013-05-22, 14:27 | Link #28530 | |
Master of Coin
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Because what this does is putting a billion dollar in Ireland. Gratz. How will you get it back to your shareholders then? You still have to repatriate it. It is not Tax Free yet. Unless Obama or the next president decide to have a tax holiday. |
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2013-05-22, 14:28 | Link #28531 |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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Petraeus’s role in drafting Benghazi talking points raises questions
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...y.html?hpid=z1
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2013-05-22, 14:52 | Link #28532 |
Monarch Programmer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Liverpool
Age: 42
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Islamist provoked murder of British soldier in broad daylight...
http://news.sky.com/story/1094380/wo...-terror-attack
Madness!. I am from the UK (Liverpool). I have two young children and i am honestly scared for their future. The repercussions of this will carry throughout the country. I can foresee a civil war coming which will be completely mindless as normal Muslims will be forced to protect themselves from angry gangs blaming them for what has happened. Extremist religion will be the ruin of us all. I have no answer to this problem which really scary. |
2013-05-22, 15:22 | Link #28533 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
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As you said they can wait till a tax holiday occurs to bring it back at little cost. So basically they store profits made in the US abroad as reserves. The shareholders will receive less dividends but are compensated by capital gains as the profits are not paid out. |
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2013-05-22, 15:23 | Link #28534 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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2013-05-22, 16:08 | Link #28535 | |
Monarch Programmer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Liverpool
Age: 42
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And to a British soldier. Do you not think people are not going to react to this? I hope i am over analysing this trust. But i don't think i am... |
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2013-05-22, 20:15 | Link #28536 | |
WE ARE.... PENN STATE....
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Absolutely sickening.
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2013-05-22, 21:31 | Link #28537 | |
Ava courtesy of patchy
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Basically, what they'll have is a big company with a large profit and capital, yet they receive no real profit(cash for example) out of it at all, and a risk that the capital(and the owner's unrealized gain) might be eroded by operational loss before they manage to cash in the profit. Remember, we're not talking about small piece shareholder who trade their share in the stock market here, we're talkinh about major owner. They might do such trick with part of their company profit, but I'm pretty sure they're not as willing to do that down to the last penny of their profit. |
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2013-05-23, 00:58 | Link #28539 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Deutschland
Age: 39
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2013-05-23, 02:22 | Link #28540 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Terrorism is like that; it isn't about hurting your enemies, it is about getting your enemies mad and fall down to your own level. And once they are just as bad as you, you win.
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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